Niners need a hired gun on defense

[Crimsoncrew]

Let's look at it position-by-position (omitting QB because people go all about QBs for some reason):

LT: same
LG: same
C: Kilgore? Couldn't beat Goodwin last year; the same would probably be optimistic.
RG: same
RT: same
RB: Declining talent (Gore). Lattimore might be able to change that, but I doubt he'll be better than 2012 Gore as a rookie.
WR: Boldin (if he's back) - Declining
WR: Crabby - Same
TE: same
FB: same

LDE: Same
NT: Same
RDE: Declining
LOLB: same
ILB: same
ILB: Probably declining (after an ACL / MCL tear)
ROLB: same
FS: Improving
SS: ???
CB: ???
CB: ???

That's one starting position on the team that's improving IMO. Not exactly encouraging to say the team is getting better.

You omitted the most important position on the team. The single most important factor so far as our improvement as a team will be the play of the QB. Granted that's still a huge variable, but even a little improvement by Kaepernick could easily overshadow losses at several other positions.

Additionally, you knock older players for getting older, but don't credit younger players with improvement. All the OL other than Staley should be improving - center excepted, of course. As for the drop-off at center, it's tough to say. Teams have been known to keep centers who are less physically capable at center because of the mental challenges. We could easily see improvement at the position, even if we don't add anyone in the draft. Aldon Smith is still improving. Glenn Dorsey will be more familiar with the system, and we can rotate him with Ian Williams next year. There's no doubt the defensive backfield is in a state of flux, but we will also bring in a sizable draft class.

I just don't see the sense in mortgaging the future of what is, over all, a young and talented roster to make a one-year run at the Super Bowl.

 

[NinerSickness]

Additionally, you knock older players for getting older, but don't credit younger players with improvement.

That's because most of the young players on the team are already about as good as they're going to be. Reid is the exception. Iupati & Boone have peaked already. This is a good thing. There's a TINY chance Anthony Davis will get better, but he's been in the league 4 years. What you see is more than likely what you get.

Aldon Smith is still improving.

That's completely unrealistic. No he's not. He peaked in his 2nd year. Again: that's a good thing. You can't expect a guy who was one of the 2 best defensive players in the entire league to keep improving.

Glenn Dorsey will be more familiar with the system, and we can rotate him with Ian Williams next year. There's no doubt the defensive backfield is in a state of flux, but we will also bring in a sizable draft class.

More familiar with the system? He had an entire offseason and 16 regular-season games to get familiar with the system. He's familiar. What you saw from him is what you're going to get. The only way he plays substantially better next year is if he's worried about his expiring contract. But as a player he's peaked.

 

[TobyTyler]

Last time the Niners won a SB they called upon the services of Deion Sanders to put the defense over the top. They need to do something similar to that again IMO. They need a difference maker on defense.

Maybe Julius Peppers. If he'd accept a 1 or 2 year deal he'd probably be motivated enough to keep playing at a high level. He wouldn't have to play a ton of snaps.

Maybe Darrelle Revis. He might not get cut though. Trade maybe?

Maybe Antrel Rolle if he becomes a cap casualty. Under-appreciated playmaker IMO. I could see him going nuts on a 1-year contract. He & Reid would be a dream combo'. I was hoping he'd get cut last offseason; his salary is really high.

It's really unlikely, but I'd take Jadaveon Clowney too. If the Niners could trade pretty much the whole draft & then some for this guy I say do it. With both Aldon & him on the field at the same time I say screw the depth.

The Niners' talent level is on the decline. If they're gonna win a SB it has to be with a legendary defense.

Yep. That was what made the difference between losing to the Cowboys and beating them. Goddamn Jerry Rice for being such a bitch and not letting Sanders be Sanders. They'd have won two more Super Bowls

 

[Dodub]

That's because most of the young players on the team are already about as good as they're going to be. Reid is the exception. Iupati & Boone have peaked already. This is a good thing. There's a TINY chance Anthony Davis will get better, but he's been in the league 4 years. What you see is more than likely what you get.



That's completely unrealistic. No he's not. He peaked in his 2nd year. Again: that's a good thing. You can't expect a guy who was one of the 2 best defensive players in the entire league to keep improving.



More familiar with the system? He had an entire offseason and 16 regular-season games to get familiar with the system. He's familiar. What you saw from him is what you're going to get. The only way he plays substantially better next year is if he's worried about his expiring contract. But as a player he's peaked.

Aldon is certainly still improving, he is still learning the nuances of the linebacker position, he is still making progress in both coverage and run support.

Dorsey is definitely growing into the position and still improving. He is playing in a new scheme and new position, to think that he can't make progress is just silly. Hell the guy made progress throughout the season.

I don't agree with a lot of your opinions that players have peaked. You are entitled to your opinion but I certainly don't agree.

I'm happy that Baalke is our GM and all of us are just here on the message board.

 

[Jikkle]

Just curious where Tank factors in the talent pool on the team Sick? I'm high on him and Lattimore and I know you were a Tank man yourself.

Also I think we need to consider having 5 picks in the first 3 rounds of this year's draft which means we can potentially get more talented and younger pretty quickly.

 

[NinerSickness]

Aldon is certainly still improving, he is still learning the nuances of the linebacker position, he is still making progress in both coverage and run support.

He's really not. You're fooling yourself if you think 2014 Aldon Smith is going to be better than 2012 Aldon Smith and 2013 Aldon Smith (when he was playing of course). This is homer / optimism talk. It's borderline Raider talk.

Dorsey is definitely growing into the position and still improving. He is playing in a new scheme and new position, to think that he can't make progress is just silly. Hell the guy made progress throughout the season.

You know what? I'll concede that there's a slight chance 2014 Dorsey > 2013 Dorsey. Especially 'cause he's in a contract year. I'd like the Niners to give him an extension (along with Culliver), but we'll see. But even if there's improvement I don't think it's going to be significant.

 

[Dodub]

He's really not. You're fooling yourself if you think 2014 Aldon Smith is going to be better than 2012 Aldon Smith and 2013 Aldon Smith (when he was playing of course). This is homer / optimism talk. It's borderline Raider talk.



You know what? I'll concede that there's a slight chance 2014 Dorsey > 2013 Dorsey. Especially 'cause he's in a contract year. I'd like the Niners to give him an extension (along with Culliver), but we'll see. But even if there's improvement I don't think it's going to be significant.

Again your opinion, I disagree. Aldon has certainly shown improvement in coverage and has room to improve. Expecting an athlete like Aldon to continue to make progress in problem areas is not homerism.

 

[NinerFan52]

Yep. That was what made the difference between losing to the Cowboys and beating them. Goddamn Jerry Rice for being such a bitch and not letting Sanders be Sanders. They'd have won two more Super Bowls

Shock factor wants to get a rise out of people by implying the greatest WR to ever play the game was a "bitch" for not letting Sanders act like Sherman while on the Niners. I'm stunned...

 

[imac_21]

Let's look at it position-by-position (omitting QB because people go all about QBs for some reason):

LT: same
LG: same
C: Kilgore? Couldn't beat Goodwin last year; the same would probably be optimistic.
RG: same
RT: same
RB: Declining talent (Gore). Lattimore might be able to change that, but I doubt he'll be better than 2012 Gore as a rookie.
WR: Boldin (if he's back) - Declining
WR: Crabby - Same
TE: same
FB: same

LDE: Same
NT: Same
RDE: Declining
LOLB: same
ILB: same
ILB: Probably declining (after an ACL / MCL tear)
ROLB: same
FS: Improving
SS: ???
CB: ???
CB: ???

That's one starting position on the team that's improving IMO. Not exactly encouraging to say the team is getting better.

So Crabtree, with a fully recovered achilles tendon will be the same as he was in 2013 when he was returning from the injury? Nevermind the first two months when we were throwing Marcus Moore and Kyle Williams out as the WR opposite Boldin.

Aldon won't be better if he plays 16 games and is in more control of his drinking? Getting Culliver back doesn't change anything?

It's not an upgrade to go from LMJ to Lattimore? Having Bruce Miller back and healthy won't affect anything? Vance McDonald won't improve? Might as well cut him right now. Same for Patton. Getting Ian Williams back means nothing?

How much actual thought did you put into this? Were you too busy trying to figure out a way to trade Kaepernick for the rights to Clowney?

 

[NinerSickness]

So Crabtree, with a fully recovered achilles tendon will be the same as he was in 2013 when he was returning from the injury?

Ok fair enough point. Crabtree should be better next year than he was in the playoffs.

Aldon won't be better if he plays 16 games and is in more control of his drinking?

No. Aldon was back to his all-pro' form in the postseason. He's not getting better. That's unrealistic.

Getting Culliver back doesn't change anything?

It might, but I was just talking about the starters. And where is he gonna play? CB or FS? Niners need a starting safety. Note: Culliver's one guy I think the Niners need to extend right away.

It's not an upgrade to go from LMJ to Lattimore? Having Bruce Miller back and healthy won't affect anything? Vance McDonald won't improve? Might as well cut him right now. Same for Patton. Getting Ian Williams back means nothing?

2013 Gore probably > 2014 Lattimore or 2014 Gore. Again I was just talking about starters. I neglected to mention Miller, but 2014 Miller probably = 2013 Miller. And his replacements filled in admirably in the postseason. Vance will be better, but again I wasn't going through all 53 roster spots. And I don't think Ian Williams add much but depth. I always thought Dorsey > Williams. And even the starting NT plays less than half the snaps in the Niners' defense (unless that's changed recently).

How much actual thought did you put into this? Were you too busy trying to figure out a way to trade Kaepernick for the rights to Clowney?

Yes. I've been on the phone with Rick Smith all day. These trades take time y'know.

 

[NinerSickness]

Nobody has really made a good argument to say the OVERALL (non-QB) talent on the team in 2014 is trending upwards.

 

[TobyTyler]

Shock factor wants to get a rise out of people by implying the greatest WR to ever play the game was a "bitch" for not letting Sanders act like Sherman while on the Niners. I'm stunned...

Watch "Jerry Rice: A Football Life" for confirmation of this fact. Sanders tells it like it was and, when confronted with the facts, Rice was pretty much forced to agree

 

[Dodub]

Nobody has really made a good argument to say the OVERALL (non-QB) talent on the team in 2014 is trending upwards.

You haven't made a good argument to send that the overall talent on the team in 2014 is trending downwards. All you've done is say that the older players are declining (some are) and that the younger players (starters) won't get any better (some will), that doesn't really prove anything it is simply an opinion of yours.

 

[tzill]

Shock factor wants to get a rise out of people by implying the greatest WR to ever play the game was a "bitch" for not letting Sanders act like Sherman while on the Niners. I'm stunned...

Nonsense is absolutely the worst poster in the history of message boards, which is why he's banned from the Giants board.

 

[NinerSickness]

You haven't made a good argument to send that the overall talent on the team in 2014 is trending downwards. All you've done is say that the older players are declining (some are) and that the younger players (starters) won't get any better (some will), that doesn't really prove anything it is simply an opinion of yours.

I think the only good argument anyone made that any starter is improving (other than Reid) was for Crabtree, and Boldin's aging body (if he's even signed) is at least as big a difference asn Crabtree's healing Achilles IMO. Boldin had the year of his life last season; that's an extremely high bar for which to shoot if you're 34 years old.

Depth has a good chance of getting better, but depth only counts for so much.

 

[supreme_clientele81]

Yep. That was what made the difference between losing to the Cowboys and beating them. Goddamn Jerry Rice for being such a bitch and not letting Sanders be Sanders. They'd have won two more Super Bowls

Watch "Jerry Rice: A Football Life" for confirmation of this fact. Sanders tells it like it was and, when confronted with the facts, Rice was pretty much forced to agree

Deon left to get paid more correct? Are you saying that Rice "not letting Sanders be Prime Time" would have prevented him from taking more money from Dallas? Because that is utter bullshit. By his own omission Deion Sanders was a hired gun. He was taking the money no matte where that money was coming from. Hell he had a song called "Must be the Money"

 

[NinerSickness]

Rice actually had something in his contract saying he had to be the 2nd-highest player on the team, so the Niners couldn't have signed Deion long-term without also giving Rice a huge raise from his already-high salary.

 

[supreme_clientele81]

Rice actually had something in his contract saying he had to be the 2nd-highest player on the team, so the Niners couldn't have signed Deion long-term without also giving Rice a huge raise from his already-high salary.

I stand corrected. So Rice had a poison pill in his contract 10 years before it became all the rave in the NFL

 

[Pattersonca65]

Rice actually had something in his contract saying he had to be the 2nd-highest player on the team, so the Niners couldn't have signed Deion long-term without also giving Rice a huge raise from his already-high salary.

The 49ers signed a number of free agents that year. Deion passed on a huge contract for a chance to win a superbowl. He had agreed to modest contract with incentives. There was no way the 49ers were going to be able to keep him the following year when he went searching for big money. It was a one year rental.

 

[TobyTyler]

Deon left to get paid more correct? Are you saying that Rice "not letting Sanders be Prime Time" would have prevented him from taking more money from Dallas? Because that is utter bullshit. By his own omission Deion Sanders was a hired gun. He was taking the money no matte where that money was coming from. Hell he had a song called "Must be the Money"

Omission from what, the Niners locker room? Perhaps you meant "admission"?