NHL #1 Defenseman

[Otis B. Driftwood]

But you're a shameless hussy who will hop any old bandwagon.....


Say what you will about my guy PK, rag him for being caught up ice, being on ice too long, coughing it up off and on....

I say, never up, never in. Montreal is a much better team with him than without him.

He has skill and panache.

Some folks are allergic to panache.

I would never cast aspersions upon a future Dallas Star sir.

 

[HUBSTER]

Really tough... but Doughty is too good for me to say no to.

I concur.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Sure, but don't you think that having defensemen that can handle and move the puck rather than a bunch of conservative "stay at home" guys that just ring it around the boards hard is what enabled them to make that change effectively?

Right mix of both. It's why Gardiner needs a defensively responsible guy next to him.

Also helps playing with the right forwards; playing with the two-way guys makes those mistakes less painful.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

But you're a shameless hussy who will hop any old bandwagon.....


Say what you will about my guy PK, rag him for being caught up ice, being on ice too long, coughing it up off and on....

I say, never up, never in. Montreal is a much better team with him than without him.

He has skill and panache.

Some folks are allergic to panache.

You think the Habs lock him up long-term this summer or is he going to arbitration?

 

[DragonfromTO]

Right mix of both. It's why Gardiner needs a defensively responsible guy next to him.

Also helps playing with the right forwards; playing with the two-way guys makes those mistakes less painful.

If you look at the data I believe it shows that Gardiner made the numbers of every defenseman he played with better last year, not just the "defensively responsible" ones. Like I said before, Gardiner had the fewest goals allowed per 60 of any Toronto defenseman. That would suggest that his partners were depending on him to prevent goals against, not vice-versa. And he did.

As for the forwards, here are the forwards that played more than 300 5 vs 5 minutes with Gardiner last season: Raymond, Kessel, Kadri, Van Riemsdyk, Lupul. None of those guys are really strong defensive players, and Raymond, JVR and Lupul are downright dreadful.

 

[Kevin12773]

John Carlson should be on the list IMO. He's usually on the ice with let's just say non helping forwards.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

If you look at the data I believe it shows that Gardiner made the numbers of every defenseman he played with better last year, not just the "defensively responsible" ones. Like I said before, Gardiner had the fewest goals allowed per 60 of any Toronto defenseman. That would suggest that his partners were depending on him to prevent goals against, not vice-versa. And he did.

As for the forwards, here are the forwards that played more than 300 5 vs 5 minutes with Gardiner last season: Raymond, Kessel, Kadri, Van Riemsdyk, Lupul. None of those guys are really strong defensive players, and Raymond, JVR and Lupul are downright dreadful.

I feel more comfortable with Jake playing with a defensive defenceman.

 

[esls79]

So who really won the Beauchemin for Gardiner and Lupul trade?

 

[DragonfromTO]

I feel more comfortable with Jake playing with a defensive defenceman.

Ideally I probably would too, but he'd have to actually be a good defenseman who's defensive rather than a guy who has the "solid stay at home guy" tag on him because he spends a lot of time crosschecking guys in front of the net and never scoring.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

Thank God you came, haha. I was trying to find the right stat/graph, but I'm still working my way through understanding them.

So how do you read this? He carries the team, or the team carries him?

Shouldn't they be inversely related?

 

[DragonfromTO]

So how do you read this? He carries the team, or the team carries him?

Shouldn't they be inversely related?

The red line is his Corsi %. The blue line is his team with him on the bench. So if he's carrying the team, the red should be above the blue (see Subban's graph for instance). It's essentially CorsiREL shown graphically.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Ideally I probably would too, but he'd have to actually be a good defenseman who's defensive rather than a guy who has the "solid stay at home guy" tag on him because he spends a lot of time crosschecking guys in front of the net and never scoring.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

You think the Habs lock him up long-term this summer or is he going to arbitration?

they had better.

 

[Rex Racer]

We just disagree. I think PK is good defensively, not the best but good. It seems to me like you just want to paint him as a power play specialist and I could not disagree more. Maybe you just watch highlights or just a few of his games but he doesn't have horrible misses or terrible turnovers that often.

You praise MacD and Doughty for their speed in getting back defensively after joining the rush; PK does that just as well. Again, I don't think he is the best but he is excellent. Top ten, probably top five IMO.

Sorry, but he is awful, make that god awful in his own end. The powers that be in Canada Olympic Hockey obviously agree because they parked his sorry ass in the luxury box during the tournament after damn near leaving him off the team. Tell me, how does a reigning Norris winner almost get left off the Canadian Olympic team? Speaks volumes, no?

Also, if Slewbban is so valuable defensively why do the Montreal coaches keep him glued to the bench during shorthanded situations? I can't think of one real live top of the line NHL D-man who wasn't a stud PK player that was counted on by their coach to carry the PK unit.

 

[Rex Racer]

they had better.

I hope they lock him up for 12 years at $15 mil per.

 

[Comeds]

Sorry, but he is awful, make that god awful in his own end. The powers that be in Canada Olympic Hockey obviously agree because they parked his sorry ass in the luxury box during the tournament after damn near leaving him off the team. Tell me, how does a reigning Norris winner almost get left off the Canadian Olympic team? Speaks volumes, no?

Also, if Slewbban is so valuable defensively why do the Montreal coaches keep him glued to the bench during shorthanded situations? I can't think of one real live top of the line NHL D-man who wasn't a stud PK player that was counted on by their coach to carry the PK unit.

Your opinions are obviously unbiased so its really a waste of my time to argue such objective points. I will answer your questions though.

No.

I don't know, ask Therrien. Would you take some minutes off of his 5 on 5 time or the power play to give him time on the PK when the PK is decent as it is?

If you want to base a players worth on his PK time or the fact he played just one game on the stacked Canadian team; have at it.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Sorry, but he is awful, make that god awful in his own end. The powers that be in Canada Olympic Hockey obviously agree because they parked his sorry ass in the luxury box during the tournament after damn near leaving him off the team. Tell me, how does a reigning Norris winner almost get left off the Canadian Olympic team? Speaks volumes, no?

Also, if Slewbban is so valuable defensively why do the Montreal coaches keep him glued to the bench during shorthanded situations? I can't think of one real live top of the line NHL D-man who wasn't a stud PK player that was counted on by their coach to carry the PK unit.

If there's one thing that the Ryan Callahan signing should have told us it's that everything that Steve Yzerman does is not necessarily the best decision.

 

[Rex Racer]

Your opinions are obviously unbiased so its really a waste of my time to argue such objective points. I will answer your questions though.

No.

I don't know, ask Therrien. Would you take some minutes off of his 5 on 5 time or the power play to give him time on the PK when the PK is decent as it is?

If you want to base a players worth on his PK time or the fact he played just one game on the stacked Canadian team; have at it.

Your Canadiens logo tells me where the real bias lies. There have been a great number of Montreal players over who I didn't care for yet I recognized their excellent play.

It seems to me that the reigning Norris winner would have no problem cracking the any Olympic team line up and I doubt you can find one Norris winner other than this kid who wasn't a PK stud.

 

[Rex Racer]

If there's one thing that the Ryan Callahan signing should have told us it's that everything that Steve Yzerman does is not necessarily the best decision.

Seems to me that this particular decision worked out very well.

 

[Comeds]

Your Canadiens logo tells me where the real bias lies. There have been a great number of Montreal players over who I didn't care for yet I recognized their excellent play.

It seems to me that the reigning Norris winner would have no problem cracking the any Olympic team line up and I doubt you can find one Norris winner other than this kid who wasn't a PK stud.

I don't care to even look.