NHL #1 Defenseman

[pixburgher66]

Yeah I sort of assumed that you just meant "he doesn't create offense"

Pretty much that, yeah.


Really though, is there a shut down Dman in the game that has no offensive ability? I struggle to think of one off the top of my head, but they so often fly under the radar it's hard to pick up on them.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Pretty much that, yeah.


Really though, is there a shut down Dman in the game that has no offensive ability? I struggle to think of one off the top of my head, but they so often fly under the radar it's hard to pick up on them.

Regehr is one ... probably

 

[Abe Vigoda]

I do too. I voted for Doughty too because I think he is the best right now. Not because I fault more offensively minded type players. To me they just play a different style, I don't think reflects upon them negatively. Just like I dont think the best defensemen is automatically the one with the most points.

Got it. But here is the thing; most people think PP subban is sexy and slick yada yada yada; any hockey follower in his right mind knows that Norris was a darn gift last year. I dont disagree PP is good, but you look at his turnovers in his own end, and his complete lack of defensive responsiblity in his own end; which one should rate a defensemen on; he is not that good.

An old and slowing Chara with that inhuman wingspan is better defensively than Power Play Subban. I would like to see PP clean up that part of his game, and stop looking for those bomb hits; you know the ones where he misses the guy, falls down or is out of position....and then he can become tops in the league.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

Pretty much that, yeah.


Really though, is there a shut down Dman in the game that has no offensive ability? I struggle to think of one off the top of my head, but they so often fly under the radar it's hard to pick up on them.

The league is different now; even mediocre D-men are expected to fill lanes and join the rush.

 

[pixburgher66]

The league is different now; even mediocre D-men are expected to fill lanes and join the rush.

It seems like every kid coming into the league has offensive capability too. Definitely a shift.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

It seems like every kid coming into the league has offensive capability too. Definitely a shift.

speed is a killer! In the cup finals how many times did you see MacD or Doughty join the rush only to come flying back across your screen catching the play going the other way ?

 

[pixburgher66]

Got it. But here is the thing; most people think PP subban is sexy and slick yada yada yada; any hockey follower in his right mind knows that Norris was a darn gift last year. I dont disagree PP is good, but you look at his turnovers in his own end, and his complete lack of defensive responsiblity in his own end; which one should rate a defensemen on; he is not that good.

An old and slowing Chara with that inhuman wingspan is better defensively than Power Play Subban. I would like to see PP clean up that part of his game, and stop looking for those bomb hits; you know the ones where he misses the guy, falls down or is out of position....and then he can become tops in the league.

Well, yes, he's not better on the defensive side than Chara...not sure there's more than one or two guys that are, even at this age. He's not this 2008-2011 Mike Green that you're making him out to be though. Complete lack of defensive responsibility is an exaggeration.

 

[pixburgher66]

speed is a killer! In the cup finals how many times did you see MacD or Doughty join the rush only to come flying back across your screen catching the play going the other way ?

It's incredible really. All the top D prospects the Pens have are slick skaters, puck movers, with the ability to pot a goal every once in awhile. Maybe one or two guys in the system that aren't like that. Maybe.

 

[dare2be]

Yeah I sort of assumed that you just meant "he doesn't create offense"

Sure he does...for the opponent.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Got it. But here is the thing; most people think PP subban is sexy and slick yada yada yada; any hockey follower in his right mind knows that Norris was a darn gift last year. I dont disagree PP is good, but you look at his turnovers in his own end, and his complete lack of defensive responsiblity in his own end; which one should rate a defensemen on; he is not that good.

An old and slowing Chara with that inhuman wingspan is better defensively than Power Play Subban. I would like to see PP clean up that part of his game, and stop looking for those bomb hits; you know the ones where he misses the guy, falls down or is out of position....and then he can become tops in the league.

With regard to all of the turnovers he supposedly makes in his own end, they don't seem to turn into shot attempts that often.

 

[DragonfromTO]

It seems like every kid coming into the league has offensive capability too. Definitely a shift.

People are starting to figure out that the best way to "play defense" is to control the puck and move it quickly, so that you don't spend time in the defensive zone and don't have to "play defense".

That should have been the big lesson of the Olympics (and the Kings' Stanley Cup win too). Of course there was still a portion of the hockey world that thought it was about beating guys up physically, making them "pay the price" in front of your net and stuff like that. But if you watch that Olympic tournament (especially the semifinal game against the US, where the vaunted US forecheck was rendered almost completely ineffective) you can clearly see how Canada used their puck moving skills on the back end to stay out of danger.

 

[Darkstone42]

People are starting to figure out that the best way to "play defense" is to control the puck and move it quickly, so that you don't spend time in the defensive zone and don't have to "play defense".

That should have been the big lesson of the Olympics (and the Kings' Stanley Cup win too). Of course there was still a portion of the hockey world that thought it was about beating guys up physically, making them "pay the price" in front of your net and stuff like that. But if you watch that Olympic tournament (especially the semifinal game against the US, where the vaunted US forecheck was rendered almost completely ineffective) you can clearly see how Canada used their puck moving skills on the back end to stay out of danger.

I've felt this way about defense for a long time. Positional play and physicality are still important, but putting a couple guys back there who are in the right place and move people around is still useless if neither can make a good, confident outlet pass.

On the flip side, if your guys are too soft and too out of position to win the puck, it doesn't matter how good they are at passing it out.

 

[Otis B. Driftwood]

Really tough... but Doughty is too good for me to say no to.

 

[Comeds]

Got it. But here is the thing; most people think PP subban is sexy and slick yada yada yada; any hockey follower in his right mind knows that Norris was a darn gift last year. I dont disagree PP is good, but you look at his turnovers in his own end, and his complete lack of defensive responsiblity in his own end; which one should rate a defensemen on; he is not that good.

An old and slowing Chara with that inhuman wingspan is better defensively than Power Play Subban. I would like to see PP clean up that part of his game, and stop looking for those bomb hits; you know the ones where he misses the guy, falls down or is out of position....and then he can become tops in the league.

We just disagree. I think PK is good defensively, not the best but good. It seems to me like you just want to paint him as a power play specialist and I could not disagree more. Maybe you just watch highlights or just a few of his games but he doesn't have horrible misses or terrible turnovers that often.

You praise MacD and Doughty for their speed in getting back defensively after joining the rush; PK does that just as well. Again, I don't think he is the best but he is excellent. Top ten, probably top five IMO.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

People are starting to figure out that the best way to "play defense" is to control the puck and move it quickly, so that you don't spend time in the defensive zone and don't have to "play defense".

That should have been the big lesson of the Olympics (and the Kings' Stanley Cup win too). Of course there was still a portion of the hockey world that thought it was about beating guys up physically, making them "pay the price" in front of your net and stuff like that. But if you watch that Olympic tournament (especially the semifinal game against the US, where the vaunted US forecheck was rendered almost completely ineffective) you can clearly see how Canada used their puck moving skills on the back end to stay out of danger.

Agree but canuckistan made a major adjustment as the USA took the walls away, they moved the breakout rhrough the center of the ice. Rangers did this to the Canadiens in the playoffs. as well.

 

[Abe Vigoda]

We just disagree. I think PK is good defensively, not the best but good. It seems to me like you just want to paint him as a power play specialist and I could not disagree more. Maybe you just watch highlights or just a few of his games but he doesn't have horrible misses or terrible turnovers that often.

You praise MacD and Doughty for their speed in getting back defensively after joining the rush; PK does that just as well. Again, I don't think he is the best but he is excellent. Top ten, probably top five IMO.

i watched the playoffs plus an entire series head to head against you guys.

 

[pixburgher66]

With regard to all of the turnovers he supposedly makes in his own end, they don't seem to turn into shot attempts that often.

Thank God you came, haha. I was trying to find the right stat/graph, but I'm still working my way through understanding them.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Really tough... but Doughty is too good for me to say no to.

But you're a shameless hussy who will hop any old bandwagon.....


Say what you will about my guy PK, rag him for being caught up ice, being on ice too long, coughing it up off and on....

I say, never up, never in. Montreal is a much better team with him than without him.

He has skill and panache.

Some folks are allergic to panache.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Got it. But here is the thing; most people think PP subban is sexy and slick yada yada yada; any hockey follower in his right mind knows that Norris was a darn gift last year. I dont disagree PP is good, but you look at his turnovers in his own end, and his complete lack of defensive responsiblity in his own end; which one should rate a defensemen on; he is not that good.

An old and slowing Chara with that inhuman wingspan is better defensively than Power Play Subban. I would like to see PP clean up that part of his game, and stop looking for those bomb hits; you know the ones where he misses the guy, falls down or is out of position....and then he can become tops in the league.

Nice to see you in fighting form.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Agree but canuckistan made a major adjustment as the USA took the walls away, they moved the breakout rhrough the center of the ice. Rangers did this to the Canadiens in the playoffs. as well.

Sure, but don't you think that having defensemen that can handle and move the puck rather than a bunch of conservative "stay at home" guys that just ring it around the boards hard is what enabled them to make that change effectively?