Ngakoue to Minny?

[fightinfunbags]

By pushing it back. That is why it's $90M

Yep. He robs Peter to pay Paul and by continuing to push it, with cuts he never has to pay Peter back.

 

[Southieinnc]

And yet every season he finds 25-30 million in space for free agents.

Finding "$25-30 million isn't going to cut it against $90 million - get it? You're screwed!

 

[Southieinnc]

Yep. He robs Peter to pay Paul and by continuing to push it, with cuts he never has to pay Peter back.

So you are the guy that writes a bad check to pay the credit card bill?

 

[fightinfunbags]

So you are the guy that writes a bad check to pay the credit card bill?

It’s just cap manipulation.

 

[Southieinnc]

It’s just cap manipulation.

It's called kicking the can down the road.
Now you've kicked it into a corner.....

 

[fightinfunbags]

It's called kicking the can down the road.
Now you've kicked it into a corner.....

Well, I haven’t done anything. But Howie Roseman finds a way. I don’t understand his voodoo.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Good trade for both parties. Jags get rid of a disgruntled player and get as good a return as they could have gotten. Minnesota will get an immediate impact player on the edge, however he won't be the player that Griffen was. But it certainly helps bridge the gap, and Ngakoue could certainly improve. Which is right on par with what you expect out of a 2nd Rd pick (which is essentially all they gave up for him).

 

[ducky]

Good trade for both parties. Jags get rid of a disgruntled player and get as good a return as they could have gotten. Minnesota will get an immediate impact player on the edge, however he won't be the player that Griffen was. But it certainly helps bridge the gap, and Ngakoue could certainly improve. Which is right on par with what you expect out of a 2nd Rd pick (which is essentially all they gave up for him).

He is better than Griffin was the last couple of years.

Griffin was a weird dude these last couple of years. Very, very inconsistent. Could be the mental issues he had....could be some injury issues he had that was never reported. He would go 3 or 4 games where he was not very good and then have a couple of games in a row where was almost like the Griffin of old where you could see that the physical skills were more or less still there. But for the most part Griffin wasnt a great player the last 2 years especially when you consider teams stopped helping his side of the OL a couple of seasons ago to focus more on Hunter.

He was a great Viking though in his time.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

He is better than Griffin was the last couple of years.

Griffin was a weird dude these last couple of years. Very, very inconsistent. Could be the mental issues he had....could be some injury issues he had that was never reported. He would go 3 or 4 games where he was not very good and then have a couple of games in a row where was almost like the Griffin of old where you could see that the physical skills were more or less still there. But for the most part Griffin wasnt a great player the last 2 years especially when you consider teams stopped helping his side of the OL a couple of seasons ago to focus more on Hunter.

He was a great Viking though in his time.

Interesting. Good to know & get this sort of info since I definitely didn't watch the VIkings games. Just judging off of his stats & accolades.

Well then this trade looks even better for Minny.

 

[jarntt]

He is better than Griffin was the last couple of years.

Griffin was a weird dude these last couple of years. Very, very inconsistent. Could be the mental issues he had....could be some injury issues he had that was never reported. He would go 3 or 4 games where he was not very good and then have a couple of games in a row where was almost like the Griffin of old where you could see that the physical skills were more or less still there. But for the most part Griffin wasnt a great player the last 2 years especially when you consider teams stopped helping his side of the OL a couple of seasons ago to focus more on Hunter.

He was a great Viking though in his time.

From this past season

It isn’t easy to replace an every-down defensive end who can create consistent pressure. It is even tougher to replace one who draws as much attention as Griffen. Opponents find it impossible to gameplan for both Griffen and left defensive end Danielle Hunter. They routinely chip him with running backs and double team him with tight end help, yet find him in the backfield over and over again. Per PFF data, opponents only double teamed Hunter on 20% of snaps when both players were on the field.

I suspect they are within a few sacks of each other if both are healthy. I haven't seen enough of Griffen the last year or two to know if it tailed off, but a couple of years ago he was a MUCH better run defender than Ngakoue has been. Not to say he was great, but better than Ngakoue

 

[Shanemansj13]

From this past season

It isn’t easy to replace an every-down defensive end who can create consistent pressure. It is even tougher to replace one who draws as much attention as Griffen. Opponents find it impossible to gameplan for both Griffen and left defensive end Danielle Hunter. They routinely chip him with running backs and double team him with tight end help, yet find him in the backfield over and over again. Per PFF data, opponents only double teamed Hunter on 20% of snaps when both players were on the field.

I suspect they are within a few sacks of each other if both are healthy. I haven't seen enough of Griffen the last year or two to know if it tailed off, but a couple of years ago he was a MUCH better run defender than Ngakoue has been. Not to say he was great, but better than Ngakoue

Yeah IMO I would take Griffen over Ngakoue

 

[ducky]

From this past season

It isn’t easy to replace an every-down defensive end who can create consistent pressure. It is even tougher to replace one who draws as much attention as Griffen. Opponents find it impossible to gameplan for both Griffen and left defensive end Danielle Hunter. They routinely chip him with running backs and double team him with tight end help, yet find him in the backfield over and over again. Per PFF data, opponents only double teamed Hunter on 20% of snaps when both players were on the field.

I suspect they are within a few sacks of each other if both are healthy. I haven't seen enough of Griffen the last year or two to know if it tailed off, but a couple of years ago he was a MUCH better run defender than Ngakoue has been. Not to say he was great, but better than Ngakoue

Yeah dont trust PFF's stats.

Get their stats from one game. Then go and do the same thing you are guessing they are doing. You will see how off their stats are. A PFF stat is basically just an inaccurate opinion of each play and then those opinions are given statistical values.

Since you are a Cowboys fan my best example of this was 2018 and their offensive line. Remember how they just fell apart because of injury and simply could not block anyone? Dak was getting eaten alive most of the season. He took 56 sacks. Almost 20 more in that season than in any of his other seasons. 2nd highest sack total in the league.

Despite all that PFF rated the Cowboys as an above average OL that season. And what is craziest about it? They said their pass blocking that year was SIGNIFICANTLY better than their run blocking that season.

 

[jarntt]

Yeah dont trust PFF's stats.

Get their stats from one game. Then go and do the same thing you are guessing they are doing. You will see how off their stats are. A PFF stat is basically just an inaccurate opinion of each play and then those opinions are given statistical values.

Since you are a Cowboys fan my best example of this was 2018 and their offensive line. Remember how they just fell apart because of injury and simply could not block anyone? Dak was getting eaten alive most of the season. He took 56 sacks. Almost 20 more in that season than in any of his other seasons. 2nd highest sack total in the league.

Despite all that PFF rated the Cowboys as an above average OL that season. And what is craziest about it? They said their pass blocking that year was SIGNIFICANTLY better than their run blocking that season.

The only stat I referenced was how often Hunter was double teamed. I suspect that's pretty easy to do accurately and trust their number. There is no opinion involved with that so I'm not following the point you are trying to make

Also, I am not a fan of PFF rankings and stats in part for the reasons you outlined. I'm just not sure how they are pertinent here

 

[LambeauLegs]

Buyer Beware: Vikings’ Gamble on Ex-Jaguars Pro Bowler Comes With Red Flags

Buyer Beware: Vikings Gamble on Ex-Jaguars DE Yannick Ngakoue | Heavy.com

Based solely on name recognition, it seemed the Vikings got a steal in trading a second- and conditional fifth-round draft picks for ex-Jaguars Pro Bowler Yannick Ngakoue.

But his brand does come with some spoiled goods.

Ngakoue’s only Pro Bowl appearance came in his second year in the league in 2017 when the 2016 third-rounder tallied 12 sacks, six forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries — one which went for a touchdown.

Priding himself on being a disruptive force in the backfield, specifically in forcing fumbles, Ngakoue didn’t play role in a single turnover the following season and has yet to produce a double-digit season sack total since his Pro Bowl year.

Pro Football Focus recently labeled Ngakoue a “good not great” 2020 free agency candidate for the drop-off in his career and being a virtual non-factor in stopping the run.

PFF senior analyst Sam Monson broke down Ngakoue’s decline over the past couple of seasons to a couple of factors.

Here’s what he wrote:

Firstly, the season that showed his elite potential as a pass-rusher was 2017, and he hasn’t really come close to those heights since. That year, he had an 88.2 PFF pass-rushing grade and notched 82 total pressures including the playoffs.

Since then, he hasn’t been within 10 grading points of that high mark and has registered pressure at a much lower rate. Secondly, Ngakoue wants no part of defending the run. Admittedly, that has never been less relevant, but at some point it’s bad enough that it is an issue, and Ngakoue has never had a PFF grade north of 60.0 against the run, with his first season in the league earning one of just 29.5.

In theory, there is an elite pass-rusher in Ngakoue, but a team will need to gamble that they can coax the player we saw in 2017 back out.

 

[VikingFan2k2]

Since then, he hasn’t been within 10 grading points of that high mark and has registered pressure at a much lower rate. Secondly, Ngakoue wants no part of defending the run. Admittedly, that has never been less relevant, but at some point it’s bad enough that it is an issue, and Ngakoue has never had a PFF grade north of 60.0 against the run, with his first season in the league earning one of just 29.5.

That I don't like. Jared Allen was the last big defensive player we traded for. He never great against the run, but his last couple years here, he didn't even care to try and was only playing for sacks.

 

[LambeauLegs]

I guess it is a good thing that the Vikes got this guy!

Vikings DE Danielle Hunter placed on IR with undisclosed injury

Vikings DE Danielle Hunter placed on IR with undisclosed injury

 

[VikingFan2k2]

I guess it is a good thing that the Vikes got this guy!

Vikings DE Danielle Hunter placed on IR with undisclosed injury

Vikings DE Danielle Hunter placed on IR with undisclosed injury

That's the best player on our defense right there. Hadn't missed a game due to injury ever. Rumor has it it's a neck injury and those can be extremely pesky.

I'm thinking the Vikings are going to have to win in a shoot out if they want to win Sunday.

 

[ducky]

Sources: Vikes ship Ngakoue to Ravens for picks

Well that was a bust of a trade for Minnesota. Also tells you a little bit about the the desperation Spielman the GM must be feeling if he is willing to trade the guy for the same compensation that he would have received in a compensatory pick (only with the pick moved up one year).

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Sources: Vikes ship Ngakoue to Ravens for picks

Well that was a bust of a trade for Minnesota. Also tells you a little bit about the the desperation Spielman the GM must be feeling if he is willing to trade the guy for the same compensation that he would have received in a compensatory pick (only with the pick moved up one year).

Curious if he is even worth the hype he's now getting in Baltimore. If he was worth the trade, then Minny shouldn't have buyers remorse like this.

 

[ducky]

Curious if he is even worth the hype he's now getting in Baltimore. If he was worth the trade, then Minny shouldn't have buyers remorse like this.

It's hard to say I was disappointed by his play. But he wasn't some overwhelming force either. He's a solid edge guy. Those are hard to find so he definitely has big value in this league. But if he is the best player on your defensive line, you are in trouble.

I will say all the crap talked about him in the run game is just that....crap. He was very solid against the run. But he certainly isn't as disruptive pass rusher as his 5 sacks over 6 games would lead you to believe. He's not a guy that gets close to the QB consistently.....but when he does, he closes the deal. Or at least he did here.

But he really does have one hell of a knack at that strip sack.

As a Pitt fan: Your team has 2 much better edge defenders right now. But that is nothing new with your franchise. But for Baltimore I do think he adds some much needed push off the edge. Certainly makes them better and will be a solid contributor there.