NFL cracking down on iilegal holding and defensive holding.

[dude82]

What do you guy's think about the NFL implementing College rules on PI call's ?? I"m all for it... I hate seeing bad PI call's result in a 50 yard gain... The argument is players will just grab and maul when there beat but that doesn't seem to be a problem in college football...

I think the ticky-tack PI calls should be 15-yarders, but the blatant calls deserve to be spot fouls. It may not be happening in college where the 15-yard PI calls regardless of blatancy have resulted in muggings, but those kids aren't playing for their livelihoods either. It will happen in the NFL if the league adopts the flat 15-yard PI penalty.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I think the ticky-tack PI calls should be 15-yarders, but the blatant calls deserve to be spot fouls. It may not be happening in college where the 15-yard PI calls regardless of blatancy have resulted in muggings, but those kids aren't playing for their livelihoods either. It will happen in the NFL if the league adopts the flat 15-yard PI penalty.

If your a db you don't want to give up on a play though.... What if the receiver drops it or the qb over throws him... If you just grab and consider yourself beat it's and auto 1st down and still a 15 yard tag ... I just don't see it being a problem... Imagine a 3rd and 30 and you just grab the receiver giving them a 1st down plus 15... There is no way your gonna want to bail the O out like that.... But I wouldn't be against a blatant spot foul if the league felt it was and issue... But as it sits right now it's always a worry because sometimes the refs call the weakest PI call's ...

 

[octagondd]

If the NFL did the college rule PI, the Hawks would benefit greatly. Their defense is about not getting beat on big plays, especially for scores. They don't care about marching down the field and first downs. They care about defending the endzone. Our guys would be the very first to just grab a guy if they are beat. Maxwell tried it a couple times last year and once in the SB, but Thomas still caught it.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

If the NFL did the college rule PI, the Hawks would benefit greatly. Their defense is about not getting beat on big plays, especially for scores. They don't care about marching down the field and first downs. They care about defending the endzone. Our guys would be the very first to just grab a guy if they are beat. Maxwell tried it a couple times last year and once in the SB, but Thomas still caught it.

I think every team would benefit from that rule change... So many times we see play's where the receiver is barely touched called a PI ... That shit hurts the game... At the very least it would make those bad call's a little less painful... 15 yards and a free 1st down is still painful enough... I wish the NFL would change it honestly it won't hurt the game it will help it...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Just saw a stat showing the 2004 season where the refs emphasized calling more illegal contact and holding call's .... Illegal contact fouls went up from 79 to 191 that year.... Ironically in 2004 towards the end of the season the refs started backing off because coaches and players started voicing there frustration with the rule and how much it was helping the offenses...

 

[Destroydacre]

What do you guy's think about the NFL implementing College rules on PI call's ?? I"m all for it... I hate seeing bad PI call's result in a 50 yard gain... The argument is players will just grab and maul when there beat but that doesn't seem to be a problem in college football...

I'd love it. I've said for years that PI should be 15 yards (or spot inside of 15). PI being a spot foul gives refs way too much control and to be blunt, they are flat out wrong too much of the time. I see so many 25+ yard gains just watching red zone each week where there was incidental contact at most, and usually not even that. And while making PI a 15 yard penalty won't make the refs any better, it will make offenses earn their points rather than getting 50 yard gifts from incompetent back judges.

 

[dude82]

I don't want to see opposing offenses being awarded chunks of yards and first downs on PI calls for very minor contact any more than anyone else does, but I also don't want to see Percy Harvin beat a guy 50 yards downfield only to get tackled before the ball gets there, and get just 15 yards out of it. The problem is that making every PI a spot foul and an automatic first down leads to the first scenario more than we'd like and making every PI a 15-yarder and an automatic first will lead to the second scenario because defenses would rather give up 15 yards and a first down than 50 yards and a first down.

There's gotta be a solution to the problem, but I don't think that making all PI penalties 15-yarders is it.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I don't want to see opposing offenses being awarded chunks of yards and first downs on PI calls for very minor contact any more than anyone else does, but I also don't want to see Percy Harvin beat a guy 50 yards downfield only to get tackled before the ball gets there, and get just 15 yards out of it. The problem is that making every PI a spot foul and an automatic first down leads to the first scenario more than we'd like and making every PI a 15-yarder and an automatic first will lead to the second scenario because defenses would rather give up 15 yards and a first down than 50 yards and a first down.

There's gotta be a solution to the problem, but I don't think that making all PI penalties 15-yarders is it.

If Percy beats you your not catching him to grab him in the first place ... Also it's a non issue in college.. The last thing a db wants to do is give up on a play and grab a guy giving a team 15 yards and a free 1st down .. What if the qb overthrows the play ... Or doesn't even throw it in his direction...

 

[dude82]

The biggest problem with PI calls isn't how the penalties are enforced, but how inconsistently they're called. Everything from the official in charge of making those calls from week-to-week, to the reputation of a particular team or player, to the sudden determination by the league office (usually "helped" by complaints received by other teams) that certain teams/players aren't being called for interference often enough (which goes back to reputation) has a huge impact on how PI is called in each game. Obviously some officials are always going to call games tighter than other officials, but there has to be some consistency from week-to-week with these calls.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

The biggest problem with PI calls isn't how the penalties are enforced, but how inconsistently they're called. Everything from the official in charge of making those calls from week-to-week, to the reputation of a particular team or player, to the sudden determination by the league office (usually "helped" by complaints received by other teams) that certain teams/players aren't being called for interference often enough (which goes back to reputation) has a huge impact on how PI is called in each game. Obviously some officials are always going to call games tighter than other officials, but there has to be some consistency from week-to-week with these calls.

True....

 

[cdumler7]

The biggest problem with PI calls isn't how the penalties are enforced, but how inconsistently they're called. Everything from the official in charge of making those calls from week-to-week, to the reputation of a particular team or player, to the sudden determination by the league office (usually "helped" by complaints received by other teams) that certain teams/players aren't being called for interference often enough (which goes back to reputation) has a huge impact on how PI is called in each game. Obviously some officials are always going to call games tighter than other officials, but there has to be some consistency from week-to-week with these calls.

This is where any time PI is called I wish the league would have the league office (which watches every play live) would be the ones to actually make the call. PI is too much of a game changer to be left in the hands of somebody that can only see a split second of what is actually going on. This way say maybe 3-4 guys are making the final decision on such a big call. Gives better consistency through the same people watching it plus they can slow it down some to actually see what happened. This would not take any longer than the officials huddling together to make a decision so it doesn't add any length to the game but would add better consistency on the field. Just my 2 cents worth of thoughts though.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

This is where any time PI is called I wish the league would have the league office (which watches every play live) would be the ones to actually make the call. PI is too much of a game changer to be left in the hands of somebody that can only see a split second of what is actually going on. This way say maybe 3-4 guys are making the final decision on such a big call. Gives better consistency through the same people watching it plus they can slow it down some to actually see what happened. This would not take any longer than the officials huddling together to make a decision so it doesn't add any length to the game but would add better consistency on the field. Just my 2 cents worth of thoughts though.

I'd be down for that... Also making it only a 15 yard penalty like college ball... I hate PI call's that are clearly blown call's changing the tide of a game ...

 

[cdumler7]

I'd be down for that... Also making it only a 15 yard penalty like college ball... I hate PI call's that are clearly blown call's changing the tide of a game ...

Not completely sure I agree with that. I would expect that would cause a lot more deep PI when players know they have been beat. This is where they could add a new part to it kind of like the facemask rule a while back where if it was a bad one then it got the full 15 and automatic 1st down but if it was just where you grazed the facemask it was only 5 if I remember right. I liked that rule. Now given then that again is a judgment call but I think you would be able to tell the difference between a Corner pulling the guy to the ground by his jersey compared to just accidentally running into him on an underthrown football kind of thing.

I do agree the ticky tack calls that give a team 40-50 yards is just ridiculous.

 

[Thruthefog]

Well...shit. Way to go Seattle. See what happens when you actually play defense?

Oh well. It was bound to happen. Same thing happened to the '04 Pistons. Although the nice thing about the NBA, they don't have to actually announce a rule change.

 

[dude82]

I'd be down for that... Also making it only a 15 yard penalty like college ball... I hate PI call's that are clearly blown call's changing the tide of a game ...

But if the officials are getting help, there theoretically won't be any game-changing blown calls for pass interference and the league could then have it where the less egregious PI penalties go for 15 yards and a first, while the more blatant ones remain a spot foul and a first.

I'd like to go back to the scenario I laid out earlier and try to clarify it a bit: Say a corner is covering Harvin 30-40 yards downfield and he sees that he either doesn't have a good angle on a pass to break it up or that Harvin is starting to pull away from him. If he knows that all he's gonna cost his team is 15 yards and a first down for a PI, what's to stop him from grabbing Percy by the ankle to trip him up or outright tackling him to make sure the catch doesn't happen, preventing the bigger gain and a possible touchdown?

I agree that not all pass interference calls are the same and that it's utterly ridiculous to give a spot foul on a play that barely qualifies as pass interference, but I believe that doing away with the spot foul completely will give defenders free reign to do whatever they have to do to keep a receiver from catching a deep pass because it's better to give up 15 yards and a first down than it is to give up a huge pass play and a possible touchdown. Making every instance of PI a spot foul isn't good, but making it a 15-yard penalty across the board, regardless of severity, wouldn't be good either; and it might actually encourage more blatant instances of PI.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Well...shit. Way to go Seattle. See what happens when you actually play defense?

Oh well. It was bound to happen. Same thing happened to the '04 Pistons. Although the nice thing about the NBA, they don't have to actually announce a rule change.

Seattle did actually play defense... League just wants more offense anyway they can get it... And that's a dam pity...

 

[dude82]

Update: fivethirtyeight.com, Grantland's stats-based sister site, just posted an article relating to this new emphasis on calling illegal contact and defensive holding and the person who wrote it, Neil Payne, doesn't seem to think there'll be a noticeable difference in how things are called or in the impact it'll have on passing stats across the league.

The NFL?s New Defensive Rules Probably Aren?t Going To Make A Difference | FiveThirtyEight