NFC West

[Bemular]

if you stay 'clean' off the field, would the roster bonus' be in jeopardy? if you're Jenkins and intend to stay 'clean', then accept this schedule in return for a higher total amount.

the Rams should handle the interest the same as any player. IF they have to give him a lump sum for just interest, then do it.

again, it IS an issue i agree, but is it so big you can't get this deal done? is it so big you're going to hold out? in the larger picture, if Jenkins is leaving all his issues behind him, then these things aren't THAT big. he needs to look past this first contract, all other teams are watching.

for the immediate......this is what happens when you 'make your bed' in college.

It seems there are a couple things causing some confusion. First off, a roster bonus and a signing bonus are two completely different things - one is guaranteed one isn't.

Second, he has already paid for "making his bed in college" (and StL has saved) for those transgressions. If StL did not feel he was worth 39th overall then they should not have taken him there.

I am not saying he should not have to be accountable for his character issues, I just saying he should not have to pay for them twice. Make sense?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

if you stay 'clean' off the field, would the roster bonus' be in jeopardy? if you're Jenkins and intend to stay 'clean', then accept this schedule in return for a higher total amount.

the Rams should handle the interest the same as any player. IF they have to give him a lump sum for just interest, then do it.

again, it IS an issue i agree, but is it so big you can't get this deal done? is it so big you're going to hold out? in the larger picture, if Jenkins is leaving all his issues behind him, then these things aren't THAT big. he needs to look past this first contract, all other teams are watching.

for the immediate......this is what happens when you 'make your bed' in college.

Bem touched on some of this, I think (just glanced at his post above, haven't really read it yet). First off, there is no higher amount. The guy picked after Jenkins got $2 million in guaranteed signing bonus. The Rams are offering Jenkins $2 million as "signing bonus." But it's not a guaranteed lump sum, like other guys are getting. It's not guaranteed at all. If he has a terrible injury in year one and it ends his career, he's SOL. The Rams can just cut him. Now, that's unlikely, but not entirely unheard of.

In theory, all these guys are convinced of their abilities both to perform on the field and stay out of trouble off it. In reality, the averaged NFL lifespan is still under three years, I believe. Jenkins' prospects are much better as a high pick, but who knows? It's a violent game. No player is going to take the same amount of money paid in installments that he "should" get up front. And perhaps more importantly, no agent is going to accept it.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Incidentally, the guy ahead of Jenkins, Andre Branch, has had his contract put on hold (possibly resolved now?), but he was slated to may $2.14 million in signing bonus. So Jenkins should be somewhere in the $2.08 million range up front. If they're going to space it out, he should probably be getting something in the $2.5 million range over the course of the contract.

 

[deep9er]

It seems there are a couple things causing some confusion. First off, a roster bonus and a signing bonus are two completely different things - one is guaranteed one isn't.

Second, he has already paid for "making his bed in college" (and StL has saved) for those transgressions. If StL did not feel he was worth 39th overall then they should not have taken him there.

I am not saying he should not have to be accountable for his character issues, I just saying he should not have to pay for them twice. Make sense?

whether the roster bonus is guaranteed or not, if he intends to stay clean, then he'll get the bonus....all of it. make sense?

are you sure Jenkins already paid for his college transgressions? isn't this demand for "protection' part of that initial payment? what would you expect ANY NFL team to do in this situation, just give a standard 2nd round contract? so IMO he isn't finished paying the first time. make sense?

i'm not laying it all on Jenkins, i ALREADY agreed this negotiation is part of the Rams "calculated risk". but i don't view it as extremely the Rams fault, i would want the 49ers to take similar steps.

 

[Bemular]

whether the roster bonus is guaranteed or not, if he intends to stay clean, then he'll get the bonus....all of it. make sense?

are you sure Jenkins already paid for his college transgressions? isn't this demand for "protection' part of that initial payment? what would you expect ANY NFL team to do in this situation, just give a standard 2nd round contract? so IMO he isn't finished paying the first time. make sense?

i'm not laying it all on Jenkins, i ALREADY agreed this negotiation is part of the Rams "calculated risk". but i don't view it as extremely the Rams fault, i would want the 49ers to take similar steps.

Aaah, no, not one word of your response makes any sense whatsoever - not even a little. You are still confused between what a signing bonus and a roster bonus is. Good behavior does not guarantee a roster bonus so stop saying all he has to do is "stay clean" to get his roster bonus - that is just dumb.

Jenkins fell out of the first round due to his character issues, this was widely publicized; obviously, you were unaware of this. Something else you are obviously unaware of is when a player falls out of the first round due to character issues he loses a lot of money - typically millions.

This financial loss is his debt payment or his fine for his poor college bed making. What and who determines how much his debt should be is where he is eventually drafted and the team that drafts him. Thus, StL determined his fine should be 39th overall pick; but, now, they want to say, no, it actually should be something lower - fuck them!

AGAIN, if StL felt he should have paid a higher debt then they could have either A: traded back and taken him farther down the board where the signing bonus would have been much less or B: not drafted him at all.

 

[deep9er]

Aaah, no, not one word of your response makes any sense whatsoever - not even a little. You are still confused between what a signing bonus and a roster bonus is. Good behavior does not guarantee a roster bonus so stop saying all he has to do is "stay clean" to get his roster bonus - that is just dumb.

Jenkins fell out of the first round due to his character issues, this was widely publicized; obviously, you were unaware of this. Something else you are obviously unaware of is when a player falls out of the first round due to character issues he loses a lot of money - typically millions.

This financial loss is his debt payment or his fine for his poor college bed making. What and who determines how much his debt should be is where he is eventually drafted and the team that drafts him. Thus, StL determined his fine should be 39th overall pick; but, now, they want to say, no, it actually should be something lower - fuck them!

AGAIN, if StL felt he should have paid a higher debt then they could have either A: traded back and taken him farther down the board where the signing bonus would have been much less or B: not drafted him at all.

i didn't say its the same bonus and i didn't say the roster bonus was guaranteed. so maybe you're the one confusing yourself?

and talking down to others doesn't make you any smarter, it makes you lose respect. if you're so smart you'd know that already......so grow up.....if possible?

the Rams took a calculated risk and they're STILL working on it now, the financial part. it appears they're NOT low balling Jenkins, but just protecting themselves on paying it out.

being drafted in the 2nd round isn't setting a fine, they'd ask for the same protection whether round 1, 3, or 4. the numbers would change but they'd still seek protection in how its paid out.

being drafted in round 2 doesn't clear all his past character issues, and it doesn't remove future risk. when you have a history like he does, you first have to prove yourself clean, not get paid because you SAID you're clean.

did you guys really think Jenkins wouldn't get a 'standard' 2nd round contract? that the Rams wouldn't seek any protections?

 

[threelittleturds]

I think good behavior and roster bonuses do go together in a way. They factor in behavior when it comes time to decide whether or not to cut a guy before that big roster bonus is due in April is it? June? Whatever the dates are for those...

If they feel a player is more trouble than he is worth to keep on the roster, they'll cut him before paying him that money. Most teams will turn a blind eye if the guy is still producing on the field, but I'd bet that most times T.O. got cut... it was right before he was due a roster bonus.

 

[deep9er]

I think good behavior and roster bonuses do go together in a way. They factor in behavior when it comes time to decide whether or not to cut a guy before that big roster bonus is due in April is it? June? Whatever the dates are for those...

If they feel a player is more trouble than he is worth to keep on the roster, they'll cut him before paying him that money. Most teams will turn a blind eye if the guy is still producing on the field, but I'd bet that most times T.O. got cut... it was right before he was due a roster bonus.

actually, there was no mention of a roster bonus in the article. it just said paying the signing bonus in four payments, not once up front. so they just don't want to end up chasing it back. the signing bonus amount would still count against their cap.

i stand corrected on "low balling", the Rams don't appear to be low balling on the signing bonus portion only.

 

[threelittleturds]

did you guys really think Jenkins wouldn't get a 'standard' 2nd round contract? that the Rams wouldn't seek any protections?

I think the Rams are making themselves look stupid. They knew the risks when they selected the guy, and that means they accepted the risks. Now they are trying to make it better for them and less risky.

I think every agent would do what his agent is doing, telling them where to stick it when they offer him less than he is entitled to due to his draft position.

 

[MHSL82]

Alex Smith on Randy Moss: 'Great guy, great teammate, catches everything' - CBSSports.com

Live from Tahoe: What does 49ers QB Alex Smith think of his new weapons? “Love it, love it.” - NFL.com

 

[BINGO]

Aaah, no, not one word of your response makes any sense whatsoever - not even a little. You are still confused between what a signing bonus and a roster bonus is. Good behavior does not guarantee a roster bonus so stop saying all he has to do is "stay clean" to get his roster bonus - that is just dumb.

Jenkins fell out of the first round due to his character issues, this was widely publicized; obviously, you were unaware of this. Something else you are obviously unaware of is when a player falls out of the first round due to character issues he loses a lot of money - typically millions.

This financial loss is his debt payment or his fine for his poor college bed making. What and who determines how much his debt should be is where he is eventually drafted and the team that drafts him. Thus, StL determined his fine should be 39th overall pick; but, now, they want to say, no, it actually should be something lower - fuck them!

AGAIN, if StL felt he should have paid a higher debt then they could have either A: traded back and taken him farther down the board where the signing bonus would have been much less or B: not drafted him at all.

REPx2

COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER!!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

whether the roster bonus is guaranteed or not, if he intends to stay clean, then he'll get the bonus....all of it. make sense?

are you sure Jenkins already paid for his college transgressions? isn't this demand for "protection' part of that initial payment? what would you expect ANY NFL team to do in this situation, just give a standard 2nd round contract? so IMO he isn't finished paying the first time. make sense?

i'm not laying it all on Jenkins, i ALREADY agreed this negotiation is part of the Rams "calculated risk". but i don't view it as extremely the Rams fault, i would want the 49ers to take similar steps.

No, it doesn't make sense. Because that isn't correct. If he gets injured or doesn't play well, he can be cut with barely any cap ramifications, so it's not just a matter of staying clean. The money would not be guaranteed against any contingency.

As I said above, it's somewhat unlikely Jenkins will bust out of the league entirely in the first four years based on his on-field ability. But who knows? He certainly wouldn't be the first.

No one is saying the Rams shouldn't take reasonable steps to protect themselves. But trying to pressure him into hiring their hand-picked financial planner (who didn't come cheaply, incidentally) and then cutting 75% of his guaranteed money without adding any additional incentives is not reasonable. If the Rams want to limit his guaranteed money, they need to offer a contract that will ultimately pay him more than he would otherwise be entitled to. No player - and again, no agent - is going to accept a contract that does not guarantee and defers payment of the exact same amount of money.

If the Rams were so concerned, they shouldn't have taken Jenkins where they did. If they only wanted to guarantee $500K, they should have waited until the 4th round to draft him.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

And I want to return to the Aaron Hernandez comparison. While it's valid to a point, it's also not a great one for several reasons.

First, as mentioned, Hernandez made $276 million of what should have been about $504 million before his first game, so effectively had 55% of his signing bonus guaranteed (the Rams are reportedly offering 25%) and can make $588 million total in "bonus money," 17% more than he would otherwise get (the Rams are offering 0%). So the financial situation is not really comparable.

Second, Jenkins has far more bargaining power. He was a high second-round pick as opposed to a mid-fourth-round pick. The Rams blew a pretty darn high pick on him, a "definite starter" pick, if you will, and they will not want to apply so much pressure that they end up losing him. Since 2008, the Pats have drafted 24 players (24!!!) higher than they picked Hernandez. A 4th round pick is nothing to the Pats. Hernandez was also pressured because NE drafted another TE ahead of Hernandez, so Hernandez had to get into camp in time if he wanted a shot at starting or playing a significant role. St. Louis had nothing at CB last year, and they desperately need Jenkins to play and play well early on.

Finally, NE is not St. Louis. On so many levels. The team stability is not comparable at all. NE is the most successful franchise in the league over the last decade and a half. They have one of the most experienced FOs in football, strong ownership, and a great relationship with the community. St. Louis appears on the way to good coaching, but the ownership is questionable, and they're fighting a lease battle with the city with some discussion they might move. It is a very unstable situation.

Additionally, NE is full of high character veterans who are committed to a team-first approach that has been ingrained for years. St. Louis has some high character guys to be sure, but they're a young team and they've added an awful lot of risky prospects lately. It's unlikely Jenkins will be as supported on the Rams as Hernandez has presumbaly been on the Pats.

So you're offering the guy ultimately less money (factoring in lost interest/inflation) than he should get, only guaranteeing 25% of it, and bringing him into one of the least stable environments in the NFL. Seems to me like a bad bet for Jenkins, and I'm sure it looks that way for him, too.

 

[BINGO]

i didn't say its the same bonus and i didn't say the roster bonus was guaranteed. so maybe you're the one confusing yourself?

and talking down to others doesn't make you any smarter, it makes you lose respect. if you're so smart you'd know that already......so grow up.....if possible?

the Rams took a calculated risk and they're STILL working on it now, the financial part. it appears they're NOT low balling Jenkins, but just protecting themselves on paying it out.

being drafted in the 2nd round isn't setting a fine, they'd ask for the same protection whether round 1, 3, or 4. the numbers would change but they'd still seek protection in how its paid out.

being drafted in round 2 doesn't clear all his past character issues, and it doesn't remove future risk. when you have a history like he does, you first have to prove yourself clean, not get paid because you SAID you're clean.

did you guys really think Jenkins wouldn't get a 'standard' 2nd round contract? that the Rams wouldn't seek any protections?

Deep, Jenkins to me was a top 5 talent. Others thought he was a top 10 talent. And the remaining people thought that he was simply a mid round talent.

He was not selected in the first round because of his past. He committed a crime (not in the literal sense) and as a result he needs to pay the consequences of that crime. So teams from that point on had to assess if his level of talent is worth the risk.

Would you pay $10,000 for a 2012 Bently a dealership had just recovered from a major flood in a remote suburban area. The risk in that crazy anology is that regardless of what type of car it is, there's a strong possibility that the car give out a horrible stinch for years to come after owning it (due to it from be submerge under dirty water for an entire week). As a pride owner of your own private dealership - after buying the car from the initial owner for $10k, you may do a lot of things which may eventually result to eliminating the odor entirely. Months down the line that car may end up being worth more than $100k thus placed you in a position to get a lucritive offer from another person who wants to buy it from you.

The Bently in this parody is Janoris Jenkins; the flood is Jenkins' past / antisocial behavior at Florida; the bad stinch/odor is Jenkins' demons resurfacing (the risk); and the $100k is Jenkins' future with the Rams in landing a perennial all-pro player.

So the risk is...I select you here (late 1st round? 2nd round? 3rd round? 4th round? etc.) a top ten talent, and in return I pay you less. The financial obligation is part of that risk! I'm getting an immense talent for the price of a 2nd round pick. Thus pay him like a second round pick. The Rams already dictacted his worth by selecting him there, if they didn't believe this immense talent was worth what a 2nd round pick should be paid, then wait until the 6th round and draft him then. Then it'll make sense to pay him like a 6th rounder like they are currently doing. The protection you are referring to is tied into the risk they took in drafting him.

 

[BINGO]

No, it doesn't make sense. Because that isn't correct. If he gets injured or doesn't play well, he can be cut with barely any cap ramifications, so it's not just a matter of staying clean. The money would not be guaranteed against any contingency.

As I said above, it's somewhat unlikely Jenkins will bust out of the league entirely in the first four years based on his on-field ability. But who knows? He certainly wouldn't be the first.

No one is saying the Rams shouldn't take reasonable steps to protect themselves. But trying to pressure him into hiring their hand-picked financial planner (who didn't come cheaply, incidentally) and then cutting 75% of his guaranteed money without adding any additional incentives is not reasonable. If the Rams want to limit his guaranteed money, they need to offer a contract that will ultimately pay him more than he would otherwise be entitled to. No player - and again, no agent - is going to accept a contract that does not guarantee and defers payment of the exact same amount of money.

If the Rams were so concerned, they shouldn't have taken Jenkins where they did. If they only wanted to guarantee $500K, they should have waited until the 4th round to draft him.

Exactly. They took the risk, they need to live up to it. I basically raised the same point in my response...and I hadn't even read your comment until now.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

(due to it from be submerge under dirty water for an entire week)

I think you may want to revisit that sentence, Bingo. ;-)

 

[BINGO]

(due to it from be submerge under dirty water for an entire week)

I think you may want to revisit that sentence, Bingo. ;-)

Yeah, I know!

I'm at work sneaking to this website. I'm rushing and not focus at all...So don't mind my gibberish usage of the English language today.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

No worries, just giving you a hard time.

 

[BINGO]

Aldon Smith, Robert Quinn, my next guess would be Von Miller:

St. Louis Rams defensive end Robert Quinn charged with drunken driving - ESPN

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Just noticed that. I don't understand why these guys - especially the first round picks and highly-paid vets - don't just call a cab or get a car service.