New CBA Deal

[The Q]

I get what you're saying and I do agree to an extent. I've been trying to figure out a way to convey my thoughts on this, but I'm having a bit of brain malfunction today.

I think my biggest premise is that there's no way to accomplish what you want without major restructuring done on both sides. You have to get approval from the majority of ownership in the NBA to agree to removing the financial incentives to keep their own players. For every NY or LA, there's a New Orleans or Milwaukee that will oppose.

My stance was not deterring a player from receiving equal pay across all 30 teams, it was that the formation of super teams was not because of this system in place. If anything the formation of super teams becomes increasingly easier if players can make the same amount everywhere, then why would you choose a situation where winning a championship wasn't immediately attainable.

Exactly. You are again rewarding incompetence and letting them cover up their own shit with money.

The super team argument is nonsense anyway because there's never more than a handful of teams that can win the NBA title anyway.

A guy like Durant would still be with OKC (and frankly Horford probably too) if they didn't squander all their draft picks from the Harden deal and trade them for guys like Waiters and Kanter.

KD left because Presti's window closed after he botched his picks after getting lucky in previous drafts (especially the draft just to get Durant and Memphis...for some godforsaken reason taking Thabeet #2 overall).

 

[trojanfan12]

My stance was not deterring a player from receiving equal pay across all 30 teams, it was that the formation of super teams was not because of this system in place. If anything the formation of super teams becomes increasingly easier if players can make the same amount everywhere, then why would you choose a situation where winning a championship wasn't immediately attainable.

But that's exactly the point. If the teams the players are on are doing everything in their power to make winning a championship attainable, the player probably isn't going to want to leave. Can you honestly say that every teams FO is doing everything they can to make winning a championship attainable?

Were the Clippers under Sterling doing that? Cleveland when they didn't have Lebron? OKC when people were predicting multiple titles and they chose to let Harden walk?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Exactly. You are again rewarding incompetence and letting them cover up their own shit with money.

The super team argument is nonsense anyway because there's never more than a handful of teams that can win the NBA title anyway.

A guy like Durant would still be with OKC (and frankly Horford probably too) if they didn't squander all their draft picks from the Harden deal and trade them for guys like Waiters and Kanter.

KD left because Presti's window closed after he botched his picks after getting lucky in previous drafts (especially the draft just to get Durant and Memphis...for some godforsaken reason taking Thabeet #2 overall).

its just hte natural evolution of the NBA.

Every single CBA has been crafted more and more for parity- whether its the rise of revenue sharing, restricted free agency, the punitive nature of the luxury tax going, going from 1:1 to 6:1 in tax depending on repeater, the "designated" player provision, etc.

The NBA wants to make it as hard as possible for super teams to form going forward as to promote the overall health of the many teams- not just 1-2 teams. Of course the owners are going to support something like this. They all want to keep their own guys.

they need to incentivize guys to stay because for the stars at the very top- the ones that this matters for- they can make way more money off the court then on it. This will at least make the money an NBA team offers them much more of an important choice.

there is never going to be a "franchise tag" like the NFL- but the NBA keeps on moving closer and closer to that with these provisions. However- it only applies to guys that have made an All-NBA team- they are the only ones eligible for this (if they havent hit free agency before).

A guy can still definitely leave- but if he has made an All NBA team- he will have to leave a LOT of guaranteed money on the table.

 

[The Q]

its just hte natural evolution of the NBA.

Every single CBA has been crafted more and more for parity- whether its the rise of revenue sharing, restricted free agency, the punitive nature of the luxury tax going, going from 1:1 to 6:1 in tax depending on repeater, the "designated" player provision, etc.

The NBA wants to make it as hard as possible for super teams to form going forward as to promote the overall health of the many teams- not just 1-2 teams. Of course the owners are going to support something like this. They all want to keep their own guys.

they need to incentivize guys to stay because for the stars at the very top- the ones that this matters for- they can make way more money off the court then on it. This will at least make the money an NBA team offers them much more of an important choice.

there is never going to be a "franchise tag" like the NFL- but the NBA keeps on moving closer and closer to that with these provisions. However- it only applies to guys that have made an All-NBA team- they are the only ones eligible for this (if they havent hit free agency before).

A guy can still definitely leave- but if he has made an All NBA team- he will have to leave a LOT of guaranteed money on the table.

Just cause they keep doubling down on it, doesn't mean it's not stupid.

The facts prove that it's not the way to get what they want.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Just cause they keep doubling down on it, doesn't mean it's not stupid.

The facts prove that it's not the way to get what they want.

i mean you were trying to say its more restricted then the NFL when the NFL ACTUALLY DOES have a franchise tag, transition tag, etc.

 

[WiggyRuss]

NBA commissioner Adam Silver acknowledged in recent weeks, before the NBA and the players' association reached a tentative agreement Wednesday night, that both sides were determined to give small-market teams "some advantages" in their efforts to retain star players.



its good for the health over the game overall. Teams with the best of the best are still going to have the biggest advantages- but at least this allows teams to keep their guys--- they will DEFINITELY have to pay huge dollars to do so- and its gonna be a question for a lot of these teams whether they want to pay such high money for guys. ---but guys like Paul George, Cousins, probably Antetekuompo when he eventually is up for free agency, Griffin---- this deal definitely makes it MORE likely they stay with their teams then the chances of doing so under the last collective bargaining agreement and i think thats a good thing. IF the Bucks want to pay Antetkuompo 200 million- so be it- which is a LOT more than a different team can pay him.

Its just another impediment to trying to rely on free agency to build a team and get an elite player. It will be even MORE rare now for a high level free agent to move.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Im surprised.

that one helped the players.

get a team more cap space and the player still gets paid.

I don't they need it this time because the salary cap jumped so much - the teams don't really need to dump salary.

 

[handicappers]

Utah will never have a "super team". Not much to do if you are a super star NBA athlete in that neck of the woods.

 

[The Q]

NBA commissioner Adam Silver acknowledged in recent weeks, before the NBA and the players' association reached a tentative agreement Wednesday night, that both sides were determined to give small-market teams "some advantages" in their efforts to retain star players.



its good for the health over the game overall. Teams with the best of the best are still going to have the biggest advantages- but at least this allows teams to keep their guys--- they will DEFINITELY have to pay huge dollars to do so- and its gonna be a question for a lot of these teams whether they want to pay such high money for guys. ---but guys like Paul George, Cousins, probably Antetekuompo when he eventually is up for free agency, Griffin---- this deal definitely makes it MORE likely they stay with their teams then the chances of doing so under the last collective bargaining agreement and i think thats a good thing. IF the Bucks want to pay Antetkuompo 200 million- so be it- which is a LOT more than a different team can pay him.

Its just another impediment to trying to rely on free agency to build a team and get an elite player. It will be even MORE rare now for a high level free agent to move.

That last line isn't a good thing.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That last line isn't a good thing.

well, at least they have the OPTION to give up cash- unlike the NFL where a team can just unilaterally keep you on a 1 year contract if you are a star.

could you imagine if there was a franchise tag in the NBA- Oh yah- Mr. Curry- we can just unilaterally keep you on with a 1 year contract.

NBA- FAR less restrictive than the NFL.

 

[tlance]

But that's exactly the point. If the teams the players are on are doing everything in their power to make winning a championship attainable, the player probably isn't going to want to leave. Can you honestly say that every teams FO is doing everything they can to make winning a championship attainable?

Were the Clippers under Sterling doing that? Cleveland when they didn't have Lebron? OKC when people were predicting multiple titles and they chose to let Harden walk?

Most teams are not doing everything they can to make a championship attainable. In fact, most teams build with a 50 win ceiling in mind. They will never admit that, but it isn't true.

I would say less than half the teams in the league are building with any realistic chance of a future title. I would rather see my team go through a patient rebuild like the 6ers than take shortcuts like the Knicks. I guess fellow Wizard fans will find out the chosen pathway soon enough. I would bet that the 6ers build is not what you had in mind when you wrote your post, but IMO their approach is a legitimate one. If you can't win a ring today, you should be trying to build something special for the future.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Most teams are not doing everything they can to make a championship attainable. In fact, most teams build with a 50 win ceiling in mind. They will never admit that, but it isn't true.

I would say less than half the teams in the league are building with any realistic chance of a future title. I would rather see my team go through a patient rebuild like the 6ers than take shortcuts like the Knicks. I guess fellow Wizard fans will find out the chosen pathway soon enough. I would bet that the 6ers build is not what you had in mind when you wrote your post, but IMO their approach is a legitimate one. If you can't win a ring today, you should be trying to build something special for the future.

the simple fact is if you dont have LEBron or Durant or Westbrook or Curry like 1 of 6-7 players there is simply no possible way you are winning the title anyway unless you are a HUGE outlier like the Pistons.

its just how basketball operates.

 

[tlance]

the simple fact is if you dont have LEBron or Durant or Westbrook or Curry like 1 of 6-7 players there is simply no possible way you are winning the title anyway unless you are a HUGE outlier like the Pistons.

its just how basketball operates.

I would add Kawhi Leonard to that list with a couple budding stars who could make their way there soon, but I agree. If your team is not figuring a way to get one of those guys or draft the next one, they are not building the right way IMO.

 

[blazer prophet]

I wonder what this will do to ticket prices? And players who retire on the floor after a big signing.

 

[trojanfan12]

Most teams are not doing everything they can to make a championship attainable. In fact, most teams build with a 50 win ceiling in mind. They will never admit that, but it isn't true.

I would say less than half the teams in the league are building with any realistic chance of a future title. I would rather see my team go through a patient rebuild like the 6ers than take shortcuts like the Knicks. I guess fellow Wizard fans will find out the chosen pathway soon enough. I would bet that the 6ers build is not what you had in mind when you wrote your post, but IMO their approach is a legitimate one. If you can't win a ring today, you should be trying to build something special for the future.

Couldn't agree more. Doing everything in one's power to make winning a championship attainable, doesn't necessarily mean trying to land a bunch of FA's and win right now.

Heck, the Lakers are hardly on the "fast track" to win a title, but there is a clear plan and they are looking to compete for titles in the future.

 

[gordontrue]

Its official.