NCAA has restored Penn State's eligibility

[WizardHawk]

Picture from 'Old Main' tonight as my son and a few thousand students celebrate the lifting of sanctions and a new day at Penn State. Of course he said they are all calling for a return of the joe pa statue, but you know how kids are. Never happy with a partial victory.

 

[bamaboy1965]

Great to hear. The Independence bowl will need someone to play against La. Monroe.

 

[Innermind]

Speaking of Penn State, they are currently favored by 3 points on the road at Rutgers this Saturday night. That should be a helluva atmosphere for the Scarlet Knights first conference game in the B1G.

I would be inclined to take the home underdog and the three points.

 

[trojanfan12]

The place should be burnt to the ground, the wreckage bulldozed and the ground salted so nothing ever grows their again.

If you mean Jerrah World. I agree.

 

[trojanfan12]

Now - on that point, I disagree. The possibility for abuse is so ridiculously high, that banning the practice of selling freebies needs to be kept in place. Otherwise, you will see boosters paying players $50,000 for used bubble gum or some other farce to pretend they aren't simply buying the players for the roster.


Lying in an NCAA investigation is generally a career ender. As well it should be. Tressell's arrogance sickens me, given all he has said/written about being so damned squeaky clean.

On the bolded. Once it's given to them, it's their property. They should be able to do with it as they please. I understand the point of some idiot booster paying a ridiculous sum of money for it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's their personal property.

 

[trojanfan12]

Then exactly happened? I apologize if I did get it wrong. I thought that's why USC got in trouble. What did they do for their punishment? It wasn't technically called recruiting violation but same as Penn State with Lack of institutional control.

The NCAA says Bush received lavish gifts from two fledgling sports marketers hoping to sign him. The men paid for everything from hotel stays and a rent-free home where Bush's family apparently lived to a limousine and a new suit when he accepted his Heisman in New York in December 2005.
The NCAA found that Bush, identified as a "former football student-athlete," was ineligible beginning at least by December 2004, a ruling that could open discussion on the revocation of the New Orleans Saints star's Heisman. Members of the Heisman Trust have said they might review Bush's award if he was ruled ineligible by the NCAA.
USC was penalized for a lack of institutional control in the ruling by the NCAA following its four-year investigation. The report cited numerous improper benefits for Bush and former basketball player O.J. Mayo, who spent just one year with the Trojans.

You were wrong because USC didn't pay Bush or his family anything. USC has claimed all along that no one at the university knew what the Bush family was up to and the NCAA never proved otherwise.

Basically, a wannabe sports agent got together with Bush's stepfather, after Bush was already at USC and the 2 decided to start a sports agency. Bush's stepfather was to deliver Reggie as their agencies first client. In exchange for that, the wannabe agent arranged for the Bush family to live in a house rent free. He also paid for trips for Reggie's parents to see him play.

All of this was done and arranged in San Diego (about 2-3 hours from USC). As the wannabe agent himself said: "We did everything away from campus and behind closed doors because we knew Reggie could get in trouble".

Also, the fact that all of this happened after Reggie was at USC, means that it was not a recruiting violation. In fact, the idea was for Reggie to leave early, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense for USC to be part of this or to cover it up.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

If you mean Jerrah World. I agree.

Then, where will we play Alabama in 2 years?

 

[LawDawg]

At PSU, the people responsible are gone and being dealt with by the legal system. There was no reason to punish innocent players and coaches.

Penalties by the NCAA have almost always penalized players and coaches that weren't involved. At least players. The system can't move fast enough to do otherwise, and still offer some level of due process.

I think, as with any system of rules and penalties, Penn State had to be penalized. I don't know the details as much as others, but it seemed pretty clear that PSU's coaches and administrators swept horrible, criminal behavior under the rug to protect their athletic and coaching reputations. Assuming that is true, you have penalize the school to set an example, if for no other reason. But, mainly, you have to let people know that a culture where too much emphasis is already put on football can't let priorities get so out of kilter that there is even a question as to what to do when this type of thing arises.

PSU fans are going to argue this action vindicates PSU. That may be true, but everything I've read says it was done because of the actions of the new administration, not because of some new evidence or revelation that everyone involved was innocent. I think the main problem that I have is that PSU fans may not have learned their lesson. If their reaction is one of vindication, not one of being humble and dedicated to making sure that it never happens again, it would seem to me the lesson wasn't learned and it is a shame the penalties have been lifted.

 

[TigerBait1971]

A good gesture would be to donate any bowl game money to the victims.

 

[7Samurai13]

On the bolded. Once it's given to them, it's their property. They should be able to do with it as they please. I understand the point of some idiot booster paying a ridiculous sum of money for it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's their personal property.

Is anyone else not surprised that a USC fan has that perspective?

 

[ckhokie]

It's not the NCAA's job to be the US judicial system and in this case it was trying to be.

Actually, being the governing body of collegiate sports is exactly what the NCAA's job is. The NCAA had no impact on criminal charges, but were well within their jurisdiction in penalizing the school.

And I hate the NCAA.

 

[redseat]

Ray rice fired for punching a woman
Penn state walks after facilitating rampant child r*pe.

PS: almost all programs that get punished after the perps are long gone, and 100% of the time players and staff live under pubishments for which they had nothing to do with the allegations. Nothing new there. PSUs program failed to meet the standards of the ncaa and society, so its program gets punished. Pretty simple, really.

hasn't Miami done the same thing and nothing happened to them? I see why the NCAA punished Penn State because it was such a terrible act that accord in the locker room and who knows where else on campus but it's very odd timing for it to come out that they are just now lifting the bans.

 

[Payton]

Actually, being the governing body of collegiate sports is exactly what the NCAA's job is. The NCAA had no impact on criminal charges, but were well within their jurisdiction in penalizing the school.

No, they really weren't. There were higher ups at PSU that majorly effed up... They needed to be dealt with by the legal system and have been (Or are being dealt with.. I don't know where they are in the process at the moment)...

What the NCAA essentially did is, since we can surmise that their likely motive for doing what they did was to shield the football program, that we therefore need to punish the football program... I'm sorry, but IMO that is jacked up logic.

A comparison I've used before is that if a man in a bar stabs and kills another man for oggling his wife, are you going to have the legal system punish the killer and then punish the wife as well because she was the "motive" in the crime? Of course not!!!

But that is what happened here.

 

[nddulac]

You were wrong because USC didn't pay Bush or his family anything. USC has claimed all along that no one at the university knew what the Bush family was up to and the NCAA never proved otherwise.

Please. When your biggest star's family moves from San Diego to Diamond Bar, someone in your program knows. Actually, many people will know including his position coach and the head coach. For USC to claim ignorance is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows how the relationships between college football players and their coaches are.

Here is why USC got hammered so hard by the NCAA. At the time of the Reggie Bush incident, the OJ Mayo recruiting and whatever was going on in Tennis, USC had one person working on NCAA compliance. San Jose State was expending more resources (and they have very few resources to expend I can assure you) on compliance than USC was. If USC actually didn't know what was going on, it was because they had made it clear that they didn't want to know. Hence, lack of institutional control.

 

[trojanfan12]

Then, where will we play Alabama in 2 years?

Maybe it would get them to agree to a home and home?



































Nah, what am I thinking? That's crazy talk.

 

[trojanfan12]

Penalties by the NCAA have almost always penalized players and coaches that weren't involved. At least players. The system can't move fast enough to do otherwise, and still offer some level of due process.

I think, as with any system of rules and penalties, Penn State had to be penalized. I don't know the details as much as others, but it seemed pretty clear that PSU's coaches and administrators swept horrible, criminal behavior under the rug to protect their athletic and coaching reputations. Assuming that is true, you have penalize the school to set an example, if for no other reason. But, mainly, you have to let people know that a culture where too much emphasis is already put on football can't let priorities get so out of kilter that there is even a question as to what to do when this type of thing arises.

PSU fans are going to argue this action vindicates PSU. That may be true, but everything I've read says it was done because of the actions of the new administration, not because of some new evidence or revelation that everyone involved was innocent. I think the main problem that I have is that PSU fans may not have learned their lesson. If their reaction is one of vindication, not one of being humble and dedicated to making sure that it never happens again, it would seem to me the lesson wasn't learned and it is a shame the penalties have been lifted.

I disagree. I understand that the NCAA punishes after the fact because, most of the time, by the time they are made aware of violations and complete an investigation, those who committed the violations are long gone. The NCAA has to punish for violations of it's rules, even if it means punishing innocent players and coaches, because they can't risk it becoming a situation where schools get away with stuff as long as they don't get caught, while the one's who committed the violation are there. At least in such cases, a message is sent that the school will be punished regardless of when the violations are uncovered. Unfortunately, this is how it has to be done unless and until they can figure out a way to punish the rule breakers even after they are gone.

In this case, however, these were legal issues and those who committed the acts are/will be punished directly by the courts. The only thing the NCAA has accomplished in this case is punishing innocent players and coaches. The message re: the behavior was/is already being sent via the legal system.

 

[trojanfan12]

Is anyone else not surprised that a USC fan has that perspective?

So, you're against people being able to what they want with their own property? Or are you just against certain groups of people not being allowed to do what they want with their own property?


And what does my being a USC fan have to do with any of it?

 

[jonvi]

It's about time. Who did bad things is determined in a court room.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

I doubt you'll see many. We've already moved on. We're bowl eligible and this is the last season of reduced schollies. Time to look forward.

Also, as others have pointed out, what happened at USC was a direct violation of NCAA rules. We can debate whether or not the punishment was too harsh, or if USC knew, but not whether or not it was an NCAA violation.

What happened at Penn St. was a legal issue that had nothing to do with the NCAA outside of much of it happening on a college campus.

Btw, it's about damn time the NCAA restored PSU's eligibility. They should lift any remaining sanctions as well.

great post

 

[trojanfan12]

Please. When your biggest star's family moves from San Diego to Diamond Bar, someone in your program knows. Actually, many people will know including his position coach and the head coach. For USC to claim ignorance is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who knows how the relationships between college football players and their coaches are.

Here is why USC got hammered so hard by the NCAA. At the time of the Reggie Bush incident, the OJ Mayo recruiting and whatever was going on in Tennis, USC had one person working on NCAA compliance. San Jose State was expending more resources (and they have very few resources to expend I can assure you) on compliance than USC was. If USC actually didn't know what was going on, it was because they had made it clear that they didn't want to know. Hence, lack of institutional control.

Where the hell do you get your information. The Bush family never moved to Diamond Bar. Do you even have any clue where Diamond Bar, Ca. is in relation to USC and San Diego (where the Bush family lived). You can certainly disagree with my opinion, but let's not make shit up. I guess you missed the quote from the wannabe agent talking about how things were done.

Additionally, I'm sure every team has players families move during their time at the school. It's a simple change of address and not within the purview of the school to get into where a family has moved to and/or what they are paying in rent. Additionally, it's not as if the home that they moved into (in San Diego County) was beyond their means. The Bush family wasn't living in some ghetto prior to them moving.

USC got hammered because Mike Garrett was an idiot and because the NCAA expects programs to not only hang themselves, but provide the rope as well. Garrett basically told the NCAA, "We didn't know what was going on, it's up to you to prove otherwise". When the NCAA couldn't prove that USC knew, the said the USC "should have known" and punished as if USC did know.

Also, OJ Mayo was a basketball player. The accusation there was that Tim Floyd (the head coach at the time) personally gave Mayo $1000. According to the NCAA that is among the worst violations a school can commit, yet the basketball program got a slap on the wrist. The women's tennis violation was due to a player from a foreign country who had improperly used a phone access card (or whatever they're called) to call home.

It has also been stated by the judge in Todd McNair's lawsuit vs. the NCAA that it appears that the NCAA acted maliciously in the USC case. There is actually testimony from witnesses that members of the COI were overheard stating that USC was going to get hammered before they even officially started their investigation.


If you want to continue this discussion, start a thread about it. I was explaining the situation to Ritz and don't want to hijack this thread any further. This thread is about Penn St., not USC.