NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[fightinfunbags]

But Aikman was a game manager because he did not throw the ball downfield a lot. Really didn't even pass a lot or for a lot of yards. Baker not afraid to chuck it and there were games he was asked to win with his arm.

The other side of this is a guy like Allen with Buffalo. He IS their offense. He’s the running game and the passing game. They lean on him to essentially win games where he is 80-90% of what they need. Mayfield isn’t that guy and there’s nothing wrong with that. While Mayfield may be able to point to a game or two where he had to rise up and carry the team, it’s not a weekly ask of him at QB the way it’s what guys like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, etc…were asked to do.

 

[tlance]

Nope....but you are making absurd comments about him. Game manager? come on.

No I am not.

And I have given my reasons.

Again, just because someone disagrees with you does not make their opinion “absurd”.

But do you.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Dallas has lost Lawrence for the season.

 

[DJ Fieri]

A couple, but I kind of go back and forth. I like Fickell, I like Franklin, Cristobal has done a great job at Oregon, so stealing him from them would be good.

But right now, the more I read and hear about him, the more I like Eric Bieniemy. Couldn't ask for better NFL credentials, he's from SoCal and apparently has said in the past that USC is one of the few college jobs that he'd consider.

Considering that he keeps getting passed up for HC gigs in the NFL, he could coach USC for a few years, get the program back up to standards and turn that into an NFL HC position ala Pete Carroll.

I agree.

 

[tlance]

Bad coach and bad team (really, just bad coach) plays a huge role in that as you mentioned. I just do not get the game manager thing at all. Game manager seems more like a QB who you need to stay out of the way but can win in spite of him.

If I look for definitions of game managers none are what you or tlance (or others) are saying. More like guys who can win without putting up any numbers, cannot make anyone around him better, win in spite of him, cannot get the ball downfield and stick with safe throws, etc. That's not Baker IMO. Far from it (at least with an adult coaching him). One of the earlier knocks against him was if anything he would take too many chances.

Want to tell me he needs to get better to be in the company of the elites and you don't think he'll get there (or can get close)? I can buy that.

So then you are basing your argument off of a completely different definition of the term.

If I defined it the same way, it would be derogatory to call somebody a game manager.

But that is not how I define it.

So…..

If you aren’t using my definition to contextualize my comment, then you are being disingenuous.

 

[dtgold88]

The other side of this is a guy like Allen with Buffalo. He IS their offense. He’s the running game and the passing game. They lean on him to essentially win games where he is 80-90% of what they need. Mayfield isn’t that guy and there’s nothing wrong with that. While Mayfield may be able to point to a game or two where he had to rise up and carry the team, it’s not a weekly ask of him at QB the way it’s what guys like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, etc…were asked to do.

Is he among 3 of the best ever right now? Nope.

 

[dtgold88]

No I am not.

And I have given my reasons.

Again, just because someone disagrees with you does not make their opinion “absurd”.

But do you.

Maybe absurd unfair, but I pointed to why I disagreed as what most would say are traits of a game manager are not Baker. Could even say some of that is a negative as he has been accused of trying to do too much as opposed to what is given to him.

 

[tlance]

Maybe absurd unfair, but I pointed to why I disagreed as what most would say are traits of a game manager are not Baker. Could even say some of that is a negative as he has been accused of trying to do too much as opposed to what is given to him.

Yes.

Because you have a completely different definition of the term than the one I am using.

 

[dtgold88]

So then you are basing your argument off of a completely different definition of the term.

If I defined it the same way, it would be derogatory to call somebody a game manager.

But that is not how I define it.

So…..

If you aren’t using my definition to contextualize my comment, then you are being disingenuous.

No...I am saying you might not know what a true game manager is. Almost seems you are just making it up as you go.

 

[dtgold88]

Yes.

Because you have a completely different definition of the term than the one I am using.

You mean where I am going by the criteria that have most often been associated with being a game manager?

I guess yours might exist and apologies if it is commonly used....but it's not something I've ever seen as a game manager. He's more anti game manager than game manager by most definitions.

 

[tlance]

You mean where I am going by the criteria that have most often been associated with being a game manager?

Interesting.

Because most who have replied on this thread seem to agree with my assessment.

 

[dtgold88]

Interesting.

Because most who have replied on this thread seem to agree with my assessment.

OK....yet when I do a search for game manager your assessment cannot be found. These were the first ones that came up.....

An NFL quarterback who is able to manage and win games despite having below average or poor personal statistics.

a game manager is a quarterback who, despite pedestrian individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, also maintains low numbers of mistakes, such as interceptions and fumbles

A game manager is a QB who can only be successful when he has good players around him. He won’t make plays, carry the team on his shoulders, or make everyone around him better.

A Game Manager is a guy who will check protections, opposite run calls, and typically run the play clock as low as he can because he needs all that time to make sure the play is the perfect choice

1 more, and I think how most look at a game manager.....

One of the worst insults you can throw at a quarterback is “game manager.” It suggests a talentless, careful, dull Q.B. who tries to win through caution.

 

[dtgold88]

For anyone thinking this is a homer take, would add some of not being a game manager could be seen as a negative toward Baker as he has occasionally tried to take too much when a safe play maybe was needed.....or, yes, has had an INT or fumble late that cost his team when he may have tried to do too much.

 

[bksballer89]

Russell Wilson a game manager? Just like Tom Brady

The Seattle Seahawks' Wilson reportedly wants to be the highest-paid player in the league.

www.espn.com

Yes I'm aware this article was written 6 years ago but shows that definition you posted of a game manager is not universal

• “(He) is not a gunslinger... Only occasionally does he try to beat you by going over the top... He is one part pigskin surgeon, one part pigskin shop foreman, and one part pigskin efficiency expert. He is a game manager who simply has the knack of making a little go a long way in a football game.” – Bob Ryan, Boston Globe, January 20, 2002

 

[tlance]

OK....yet when I do a search for game manager your assessment cannot be found. These were the first ones that came up.....

An NFL quarterback who is able to manage and win games despite having below average or poor personal statistics.

a game manager is a quarterback who, despite pedestrian individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, also maintains low numbers of mistakes, such as interceptions and fumbles

A game manager is a QB who can only be successful when he has good players around him. He won’t make plays, carry the team on his shoulders, or make everyone around him better.

A Game Manager is a guy who will check protections, opposite run calls, and typically run the play clock as low as he can because he needs all that time to make sure the play is the perfect choice

1 more, and I think how most look at a game manager.....

One of the worst insults you can throw at a quarterback is “game manager.” It suggests a talentless, careful, dull Q.B. who tries to win through caution.

Your 3rd definition is pretty close to mine.

And I did say Baker might be an elite game manager.

But he isn’t the first thing on the scouting report when teams are trying to stop the Browns. And you know that is true.

Is Baker good enough to beat you if you load up on the run?

For sure he is.

Is he good enough to beat you Josh Allen or Mahomes style when the offensive game plan centers around him throwing the ball?

No. I have not seen that he can do that. And good news for you is that the Browns don’t have to do that because they have the best running game in the NFL.

But Baker is a lot closer to Ryan Tannehill in terms of style (highly effective game manager) than he is to Mahomes and Allen.

 

[bksballer89]

Is Lamar the NFL version of Ben Simmons @thunderc ?

 

[fightinfunbags]

Is he among 3 of the best ever right now? Nope.

He’s a top 15 QB

 

[fightinfunbags]

For anyone thinking this is a homer take, would add some of not being a game manager could be seen as a negative toward Baker as he has occasionally tried to take too much when a safe play maybe was needed.....or, yes, has had an INT or fumble late that cost his team when he may have tried to do too much.

Are you referring to that point in the game when KC was riding momentum and the NFL team turned to their QB to yank the game by the balls and turn the tide and steal a big road win and then he turned it over as he failed? I’m not sure why you’d be bringing that up as it’s evidence that establishes the fact that Baker Mayfield isn’t the biggest swinging dick at the QB position. He’s not the guy.

 

[DJ Fieri]

GF or wife....LOL.

 

[bksballer89]

@fightinfunbags

Me right now