Series Thread: NBA Finals: Toronto Raptors vs Golden State Warriors

[Black Adam]

No, they won't win tonight.

I believe he was talking about the series...

 

[dtgold88]

Didn't you say the Cavs were more talented than the Warriors pre-Durant? Haven't you also said that Klay and Dray are mostly products of the Warrior system?

Heck, I even think the Cavs were more talented. But the Warriors were the better team because of their system and the way the pieces fit.

I believe Kerr deserves the credit for putting that system together and putting guys into correct roles to maximize that talent.

Remember, under Marc Jackson Iguodala and former all star David Lee were starters. Kerr's decision to bring Iggy off the bench as 6th man and essentially bench former all star David Lee for Draymond were moves that a lot of coaches would not have made, and also a large part of how the Warrior dynasty began to take shape.

It is not like Kerr took over a team with multiple all stars. Klay and Dray developed into all stars and Steph became MVP in Kerr's system. I think Klay and Dray are great players capable of flourishing in other systems now because of the way they have developed.

But I do not think they would have necessarily developed into the players they are today in other systems under an average NBA coach.

Pre-Durant? Not sure Cavs were more talented but very close. Hence, why I said the one time talent level was equal, the Cavs and Lue beat Kerr and GS. No Love/Kyrie the year before the talent level was not equal....nor was it when Durant was added.

Didn't it take an injury to Lee for Kerr to start Green? Not sure Kerr deserves credit for this move.

we of course don't know what would happen with this GS team and another coach nor what Kerr would do with less talent.

But as mentioned it does seem we agree pre Durant at full strength Cavs GS were similar in talent (if you think slight edge to Cavs I would not disagree). And in this instance Lue and the Cavs won.

 

[dtgold88]

David Griffin really did put together a very talented team. In another time, that Cavs team would've been a dynasty.

Agree about your second comment, not so sure about first. Cavs were built more by his predecessor, Chris Grant (and the spending of Gilbert).

Griff had nothing to do with Lebron coming back. Acquiring Kyrie was Gilbert willing to spend to buy the pick and last GM made the pick. Love acquired mostly with the assets and cap space cleared by Chris Grant.

 

[dtgold88]

Lotsa words to say "I don't think coaching matters much and you think it matters some so agree to disagree"

Not answering direct questions often a sign of the irrational. well played if that was your goal.

 

[dtgold88]

Is Andre Iguodala a Hall of Famer in your opinion? This has been a subject of discussion in the media recently. I think he falls short. He's got the quality and is a difference maker when he's on the court, but perhaps he falls short on quantity in total stats and minutes played. He did start and play over 30 min per game in his first 10 seasons, but he was less than 30 min per game in his last 5 seasons, and I think Hall of Fame voters may hold that against him.

I would say no, but not like I'd rail against it if he got in. He's borderline.

 

[msgkings322]

Not answering direct questions often a sign of the irrational. well played if that was your goal.

Arguing compulsively about minutiae is often a sign of Aspbergers. See I can type stuff too.

From my point of view it's very rational to not waste my time when you get like this.

And here I'll save you some time: I won't ever change and I gotta love this forum

 

[dtgold88]

Was either Steph, Klay or Draymond on a HOF trajectory prior to 2015? Better question how many of the three had an all-star appearance before 2015? Hell was Draymond even a starter before 2015?

To answer those questions: Steph had 1 (ONE) All-star appearance prior to 2015. Klay had never made an All-star team when Kerr took over the team. Draymond was a bench player and not even going to be a starter that year. Part of the beef Draymond and Kerr had was prior to the season Kerr told Draymond he didn't know where he fit in the rotation or if he would get consistent minutes. Draymond only got to start because David Lee got injured in the pre-season.

These are the questions I think you need to really think about when just making a blanket statement about Kerr inheriting a roster full of All-Stars and HOFers. LOL.

Seems like the bold above is something that works against Kerr. If not for injury, who knows when/if Green gets his shot?

As for Klay and Curry improving under Kerr? That tends to happen as guys get more experience. Pretty sure Lebron never made an AS appearance and improved and made them under Mike Brown. Became arguably the best player in the entire league. I'd say Kyrie improved under Ty Lue. Doubt anyone wants to give him the credit, even though he played the same position.

 

[dtgold88]

Arguing compulsively about minutiae is often a sign of Aspbergers. See I can type stuff too.

From my point of view it's very rational to not waste my time when you get like this.

And here I'll save you some time: I won't ever change and I gotta love this forum

They were reasonable/relevant questions. Would have taken less time to answer than it did to ignore.

 

[dtgold88]

You seem to think that the Warriors could've hired anyone in 2014 to replace Mark Jackson and that the Warriors would've still gone on to win three of the next four championships. I doubt that's true.

anyone? Don't think I jumped to that conclusion. But the only time the teams had comparable talent in the Finals Ty Lue's team won. I do think many coaches would have won the 3 they did, though. Just my opinion.

 

[dtgold88]

Next man up. Nobody has benefited from injurys in the playoffs the last few years more than the Warriors so its hard to feel real sorry for them.

OG went down, so by the standard many GS would have us believe that all injuries are equal, that cancels out the Durant injury.

 

[dtgold88]

Literally everything you mention in this post is part of the culture though.

Of course you need buy in from your stars. But a first year, first time head coach coming in with those ideas needs to be damn good at selling his vision to get the players to buy it.

I believe Kerr's ability to communicate his vision to his players might be his single greatest ability as a coach and also why I credit him just as much for the Warrior culture as I credit Curry.

Fair points, but thinking having arguably the 2 best shooters in the game with a top 3 player added probably helped.

 

[msgkings322]

They were reasonable/relevant questions. Would have taken less time to answer than it did to ignore.

Not really, our positions are clear and knowing us unchanging. Coaching matters to me far more than you. And I do think Kerr has done more with his group than Lue would have. You disagree. End of discussion

 

[dtgold88]

The complainers are the same folks who didn't like baseball changing the DL to the IL

Things change.

No doubt complainers will complain but there can be a difference so to speak. I think it's a silly move to make and for anyone to "complain" they are called owners, but if they want a different term it wont change my life.

 

[msgkings322]

OG went down, so by the standard many GS would have us believe that all injuries are equal, that cancels out the Durant injury.

I'm never gonna bite LOL

 

[msgkings322]

No doubt complainers will complain but there can be a difference so to speak. I think it's a silly move to make and for anyone to "complain" they are called owners, but if they want a different term it wont change my life.

Exactly, it matters to some so what's the harm?

 

[dtgold88]

Not really, our positions are clear and knowing us unchanging. Coaching matters to me far more than you. And I do think Kerr has done more with his group than Lue would have. You disagree. End of discussion

Is that your 4th "end of discussion" comment? I lost track.

 

[msgkings322]

Is that your 4th "end of discussion" comment? I lost track.

10 minutes to Wapner!

 

[dtgold88]

Exactly, it matters to some so what's the harm?

Not sure that's the right context to use. sure there are plenty of offensive changes we could make (which would be more offensive to most) that would "matter to some".

I doubt most players ever gave it any thought until it was recently brought up.

But whatever.....same approach I had to Indians losing Chief wahoo. Seemed silly, but not a huge deal (unless it extends the curse).

 

[dtgold88]

10 minutes to Wapner!

missing it buying socks at KMart

 

[msgkings322]

Not sure that's the right context to use. sure there are plenty of offensive changes we could make (which would be more offensive to most) that would "matter to some".

I doubt most players ever gave it any thought until it was recently brought up.

But whatever.....same approach I had to Indians losing Chief wahoo. Seemed silly, but not a huge deal (unless it extends the curse).

I agree it's a silly thing to get worked up about (same with Chief Wahoo) but we're not the groups involved.

If some team called the Hammerin' Heebs had some leering big nosed guy in a black hat with payot as their logo, maybe you wouldn't mind but I bet some in your family would.

So I'm flexible on that stuff