Game Thread: NBA FINALS!!! SA vs MIA

[bksballer89]

Sorry but you can't complain about the refs when the game wasn't really competitive.

 

[trojanfan12]

All this boo babble about refs and conspiracies and Lebron's failures.....

The truth last night was that K Leonard was drilled and then executed a defensive approach that reduced LBJ's explosiveness to the basket.

Defense was the story of last nights game. Spurs had a plan, and it was to limit/tire LBJ, the star especially to the paint. Its what Tom T used to do as Celtics assistant. It works

It's also what the Bulls did to Magic when they won their 1st title with MJ.

 

[charlie42s]

I did some research. All 3 refs have tendencies towards SA and against MIA.

That doesn't explain MIA letting them shoot 90% for a half but that is fucked up.

With that, I am out, done watching the Finals and most likely the NBA.

Research? Please show us examples of your research.

Last I checked Tim Duncan remains the only player ejected from a game for sitting on the bench and laughing.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

So now its the referees????


The Spurs have won an NBA record 10 regulation playoff victories by at least 15 points each time.


Maybe, its possible they are a good team who can get red-hot in games at times??


They might not win the title, but every time they blowout some 50+ win team, there is always an excuse from this dude.

 

[MoeJoe]

Everyone is discussing what the Heat need to do to make their "rotation defense" work. The problem is that this type of defense simply does not work against a team like San Antonio. Having your players try to double every player who receives the ball, and then frantically rotate to try to equate the speed of the ball is something that works best in the college game (or when your athletes are far superior). I have never liked this strategy in the NBA, especially against a team that moves the ball so deftly. Thus this "doubling-rotation strategy" inevitably results in the following:


1) ultimately, an open shot just about every time down the floor
2) exhaustion of your players (frantically chasing), on a per minute basis
3) having absolutely no one in position to box out or collect a defensive rebound (although not a big problem on Tuesday as there were no defensive rebounds!)


For an old team like Miami, hoping to maximize the minutes of their "Big 3", this strategy is suicide against San Antonio. Play the Spurs straight up, switch over/under screens. Make them beat our guys 1 on 1 as opposed to wide open shots. Help out as a surprise, not as the norm. For an NBA team, the Spurs do not have great 1 on 1 players.


You'll all tell me that the Heat have won 2 championships and been to 4 finals using this unique strategy. And I'll tell you that this has all been achieved in spite of this defensive approach, not because of it.


I concede that this defensive strategy would work fine against the Knicks or OK City, where one or two players are hoisting most of the shots. For the Spurs, just about every guy on the floor can shoot, and will do exactly that if open. And in case it wasn't noticed, LeBron was exhausted late in the 3rd quarter last night!

 

[Vitamike]

God you're stupid. Outside of g2, LeBron got support from his teammates and if you weren't paying attention, the heat made a damn good run to cut the lead to 7 with LeBron on the BENCH last night. LeBron didn't do shit last night. Wade gave him 22 points, shard gave him 14, and allen gave him 11. Those 3 alone scored half of the heat points last night. LeBron did nothing after the 1st while bosh didn't get nearly enough touches. Oh yeah I forgot to add that cole gave him 8 so LeBron got 55 points from those 4 players including 7 threes from them.

Just goes to show why they call you punchline BK. Horns is probably one of the more intelligent posters here on the hoop. I'll admit he is overly unbiased at times and has a higher opinion of LBJ than most opposing teams fans do.

I did not expect this from the Spurs. Thought game 3 was going to Heat. SA needs to get game 4 badly and Miami will finally be on the ropes.

I strongly doubt the Heat lose 2 in a row at home but if they do, I just can't see the Heat winning the next three especially with 2 in San Antonio OD.

Everyone is discussing what the Heat need to do to make their "rotation defense" work. The problem is that this type of defense simply does not work against a team like San Antonio. Having your players try to double every player who receives the ball, and then frantically rotate to try to equate the speed of the ball is something that works best in the college game (or when your athletes are far superior). I have never liked this strategy in the NBA, especially against a team that moves the ball so deftly. Thus this "doubling-rotation strategy" inevitably results in the following:


1) ultimately, an open shot just about every time down the floor
2) exhaustion of your players (frantically chasing), on a per minute basis
3) having absolutely no one in position to box out or collect a defensive rebound (although not a big problem on Tuesday as there were no defensive rebounds!)


For an old team like Miami, hoping to maximize the minutes of their "Big 3", this strategy is suicide against San Antonio. Play the Spurs straight up, switch over/under screens. Make them beat our guys 1 on 1 as opposed to wide open shots. Help out as a surprise, not as the norm. For an NBA team, the Spurs do not have great 1 on 1 players.


You'll all tell me that the Heat have won 2 championships and been to 4 finals using this unique strategy. And I'll tell you that this has all been achieved in spite of this defensive approach, not because of it.


I concede that this defensive strategy would work fine against the Knicks or OK City, where one or two players are hoisting most of the shots. For the Spurs, just about every guy on the floor can shoot, and will do exactly that if open. And in case it wasn't noticed, LeBron was exhausted late in the 3rd quarter last night!

Well done Moe!

 

[gordontrue]

Nothing to do but tip my hat to the Spurs. I won't say good game, cause that's a severe understatement.

Time for the Heat to lick their wounds and see if they can keep up their 3 year run of never losing back to back.

 

[LogicMan]

Why Trojan, thanks for comments

Hey Moe Joe, you called it. And what I like about this thread today is that tactical discussions about defense are being discussed.

"The mind of Thibodeau". Bulls fans will eventually get rewarded by that coach, once bad luck wears off

 

[Shanemansj13]

It worries me more this year about Miami's play bc of guys like Chalmers that aren't playing well. And the fact that Spolestra is not making good moves. Chalmers isn't producing so start Ray and he hasn't used Haslem much even though this guy can play abd knows how to win.

I expect Lebron to come out, but he still needs good coaching and guys to step up. San Antonio has been llaying maybe the best basketball I have ever seen them or anyone play in the Finals.

 

[Heatles84]

Yeah, the Heat didn't beat the Pacers, it was the officials.

In all honesty, I feel your pain bro. There are countless times I have felt the zebras have fucked our franchise over a few decades. Still think the Wade bashing of George and the eye gouge of West cost us the series. But in the end, Miami did stomp our asses in the last game. The Pacers lack of effort in that game has made me rethink my allegiance to the game as well.

Wow, so much stupidity. You almost got beat by Atlanta and Washington, yet expected to beat Miami/

The officials didn't cost you shit. Your entire team realized that as constructed they can't be Miami after the ass whipping in game 6 of the ECF. The fact that you and LoneGranger continue to talk trash just shows how moronic both of you are.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The Pacers didn't ever belong in the Finals this year, the series would be 3-0 Spurs and all convincing wins. It wouldn't be a challenge for SA.

 

[gordontrue]

Play the Spurs straight up, switch over/under screens. Make them beat our guys 1 on 1 as opposed to wide open shots. Help out as a surprise, not as the norm. For an NBA team, the Spurs do not have great 1 on 1 players.

I'd like to see less trapping and pressure, and more of an emphasis on staying in front of your man.

At the same time, I think there is a danger in overreacting too much. Spo should have a feel for how much change in strategy his team can handle without sacrificing failure to execute, and keep that under consideration when making adjustments.

Its probably not possible to overreact to that game in the context of that one game. But there is definitely some serious overreaction going on, as it pertains to the series in general.

 

[Heatles84]

Moe brings up an interesting point. There was a point where Miami had the Spurs lead down to 7, we then doubled Splitter while he was on the block which freed up 3-point shooters to where Cole had to go off of Belinelli, who eventually hit a 3 to put the lead back to 10 and end the Miami run. Miami should know that you'll live with Splitter down in the block, most of the time he has his back to the basket is to pass while a guy is making a cut in the lane, as he's done with Manu often this series.

Spo looked like he was coming into this own last year in the Finals. This time around, Pop looks to be making Spo his bitch as I haven't seen anything from the latter yet.

 

[gordontrue]

Moe brings up an interesting point. There was a point where Miami had the Spurs lead down to 7, we then doubled Splitter while he was on the block which freed up 3-point shooters to where Cole had to go off of Belinelli, who eventually hit a 3 to put the lead back to 10 and end the Miami run. Miami should know that you'll live with Splitter down in the block, most of the time he has his back to the basket is to pass while a guy is making a cut in the lane, as he's done with Manu often this series.

Spo looked like he was coming into this own last year in the Finals. This time around, Pop looks to be making Spo his bitch as I haven't seen anything from the latter yet.

Yeah, the trapping is a dangerous practice against the Spurs.

One thing I will say about the rotation on that Belinelli 3... I though Cole made a mistake by faking towards Belinelli and then running to whoever was in the corner. Because of that choice, Ray Allen was stuck not being able to rotate to either one. Cole needs to trust Ray Allen and run full speed at Belinelli, allowing Ray to run to whoever was in the corner( can't remember now). I don't know if he would've been able to close enough ground to effect Belinelli but he has to trust the system and at least try.

 

[MoeJoe]

I probably should have added that the "doubling-rotation strategy" leads to significantly more fouling, as defenders constantly arrive late and try to make a difference, or try to collect rebounds over the back. Have you noticed that we rarely have inside position on our own defensive backboard? It's usually just a "free for all" situation.


I haven't seen one other NBA team in recent years that employs this type of defensive strategy as a constant. As a surprise yes, or to double one specific prolific scorer (Melo for example), but not as a constant and against all players, irrespective of offensive prowess. I guess it means that we have the single coach who fully understands the game?


I'll also offer that at this stage of the season, it could be a mistake to try to "overhaul" anything, even if it is fundamentally wrong. No matter, I don't expect Mr. Spoelstra to be contacting me for advice.

 

[Flauge]

Miami was down 2-1 last year. Relax guys. Miami will make adjustments. They always come back from a loss better. We got our tails kicked yesterday. Trapping.. not trapping.. quadruple teaming a man.. it's hard to shoot 75% for a half unguarded. The Spurs did it. At some point you just have to tip your hat to them. If they shoot 75% for a half, we are going to lose.

In mathematics it's called 'regression to the mean.' Happen to Danny Green in last years finals.. game 5 -7 Spurs will experience what regression to the mean is.

 

[Heatles84]

Miami was down 2-1 last year. Relax guys. Miami will make adjustments. They always come back from a loss better. We got our tails kicked yesterday. Trapping.. not trapping.. quadruple teaming a man.. it's hard to shoot 75% for a half unguarded. The Spurs did it. At some point you just have to tip your hat to them. If they shoot 75% for a half, we are going to lose.

In mathematics it's called 'regression to the mean.' Happen to Danny Green in last years finals.. game 5 -7 Spurs will experience what regression to the mean is.

Here's hoping. Miami hasn't given me much hope in the last 24 hours. But then again, I said somewhere in this thread that Miami would have to win 2 games in San Antonio.

 

[Flauge]

it is hoping. But the SPurs need to win 4 games.. not 2. Miami is capable of winning in SA and will likely win tomorrow.. I don't think Miami is panicking one bit right now.

 

[Jims_Doors]

Miami has the 3rd highest payroll at $80 million. SA is #20 at $63 million.

Bosh, Wade and LBJ are all signed to make $20 million next season. Mike Miller is next at $6.6 million, Haslem $4.6 million. Anderson $1.5 million. Cole $2 million. Hamilton $800k. Their current 2014-15 payroll is $69 million.
Bosh and Wade should take paycuts to get a better supporting cast.

Miller was amnestied by Miami in July of last year and then signed with Memphis as a UFA.

 

[MoeJoe]

Miami was down 2-1 last year. Relax guys. Miami will make adjustments. They always come back from a loss better. We got our tails kicked yesterday. Trapping.. not trapping.. quadruple teaming a man.. it's hard to shoot 75% for a half unguarded. The Spurs did it. At some point you just have to tip your hat to them. If they shoot 75% for a half, we are going to lose.

In mathematics it's called 'regression to the mean.' Happen to Danny Green in last years finals.. game 5 -7 Spurs will experience what regression to the mean is.

Unfortunately, for these playoffs, it appears that D. Wade has regressed to the "mean" #2 Guard, with Chalmers a couple of standard deviations below that. While you're right that nobody can consistently shoot 75% under any set of circumstances, contending some portion of their lay-ups and 3-pointers would seem to predict a statistical benefit?