NBA Finals: Cleveland Cavs VS Golden State Warriors

[trojanfan12]

You guys are so sure of things that can't be known. I'm embarrassed for you.

Read post #3660 and then you can apologize.

 

[gordontrue]

It doesn't matter. He wasn't unrestricted, so he got traded. If you recall, all of the speculation at the time was that he was going to go to the Lakers. Then he got traded, got a taste of a title run and re-signed.

I think you've lost sight of what my point was.

LeBron committed to Cleveland before any resolution to the love trade. Boston and Love both could've exed that. Boston was actively seeking other trade partners.

 

[trojanfan12]

There are literally 3 people in the entire world who think Lebron didn't pick the main guys on this roster. Wiggy, tlance and gordon.

But it's the rest of the world that's crazy.

 

[Black Adam]

Read post #3660 and then you can apologize.

thought she was pretty clear in backing up that opinion, but oh well...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

I think you've lost sight of what my point was.

LeBron committed to Cleveland before any resolution to the love trade. Boston and Love both could've exed that. Boston was actively seeking other trade partners.

The NBA store was instructed to NOT waste their time/money making Wiggins Cavs jerseys.

#endofstory
#jameshadtalkedtoLove
#wakeupandsmelltherunneruptrophy

 

[trojanfan12]

I think you've lost sight of what my point was.

LeBron committed to Cleveland before any resolution to the love trade. Boston and Love both could've exed that. Boston was actively seeking other trade partners.

No, you've lost sight of the point. Lebron reached out to Love about coming to Cleveland. It was Lebron's idea. That's why the Wiggins went unsigned for so long after the Cavs drafted him. If they had signed him, they couldn't trade him for some time (I forget how long). They had to convince the T-Wolves to make the trade. So. Lebron did take a bit of a gamble on that. But it's already been shown that he was the one who orchestrated the trade for Love. He contacted Love personally.

 

[gordontrue]

Read post #3660 and then you can apologize.

LeBron recruited the best available player after he committed to the Cavs.

If anything that proves you wrong.

 

[gordontrue]

LeBron went to Cleveland because it was home and he saw the potential for a team that could contend.

Once he made that decision he did what hundreds of other players have done.... recruited available players to come join him.

 

[tlance]

For your first question, I'm not saying that these guys are the be all to end all, but the conversation was there about the supporting cast. And yeah, was here on these boards as well.

Moving on, even within the weak East, the Cavs got all of the love when they were shooting the lights out/breaking records from the 3 point line....but for me personally, it was never about the recent run, going all the way back to the beginning of the season(and throughout), it was pretty clear to me that the Cavs, GS, OKC, and SA were the teams that were championship caliber/title or bust teams. For me, it's hard to put a title or bust narrative on a team if I don't believe that they could win a title with the talent that they have.

As for this team vs one of Kobe's teams, I'll gladly be willing to debate this Cavs team vs what Kobe had in the 2008 Finals.
Starters- Kyrie, Jr, Lebron, Love, TT vs Fisher, Kobe, Radmanivic, L.O, Pau,
Bench- Shumpert, Dellavadova, Moz, Jefferson, Frye vs Vujacic, Farmar, Turiaf, Walton, Mbenga

I feel comfortable in saying that the Cavs this year, would have more than enough of a chance to battle that Laker team from 08. Also, to the being hard on Lebron point, the Lakers got through the tough West that year(beating the Spurs), then lost in the Finals(w/o Bynum/Ariza), and Kobe got thrown completely under the bus that year without any public reasoning/narrative for his team's loss. The public narrative was "well see, he can't get it done w/o Shaq". Also, that was the year when Odom was a no show, and the year when Pau got punked by KG, but once again the praise was(rightfully so) just given to Boston's defense.

As for Lebron's legacy, I'm not the one that's going to say that rings are the be all to end all, but when Lebron got the titles in back to back years, I heard a lot of "well Lebron got his titles in his 7th and 8th year just like Jordan". Also, when they were about to face the Spurs again, the debated RAGED on that Lebron was going to surpass Jordan at the rate that he was going, and that wasn't just talk here on Sportshoop, but a lot of the narrative got started back when Pippen said that Lebron was better than Jordan, and after the Heat beat the Pacers that year. I say all of that to say that, to say that if Finals WINS mean something, then Finals losses have to mean a little bit of something as well, and especially this year. Lebron said that they were "well equipped" to play the Warriors this year. He lamented the fact that these playoffs were different because they had Love and Irving. Losing is one thing, but if HE says that, and the Cavs continue to get BLOWN off the floor, than that's at least somewhat of a hit to his legacy, especially considering that he may be losing to a person that people have said has dethroned him as the best player in the world

That roster comparison is a good one, but that Laker team did not win. I agree the Cavs could have beat them. If that makes them championship caliber in some year, then ok. Just not this year.

I think it was equally ridiculous for Kobe to be blamed for the '08 loss too.

As for the Finals loss thing, there is no way anyone will ever convince me that a Finals loss is somehow worse than losing sometime before. The logic there just does not make sense. A loss is a loss. Getting to the Finals is better than not getting there.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Clearly, you know exactly what LeBron was thinking when he resigned.

Sure, he thought Cleveland gave him a chance to win or he would not have gone back. But, to say a team that failed to make the playoffs for 4 straight years before gave him his BEST possible chance to win is ignorant.

There were quite a few places he could have gone that had proven winners on the roster. He chose home instead.

Nike had ALOT to say about that.
Let's not forget that the Nike room in Vegas was done in Cavs colors and they had already bought up every billboard around downtown Cleveland.
That was days before James announced anything or had met with Riley.

 

[Black Adam]

The NBA store was instructed to NOT waste their time/money making Wiggins Cavs jerseys.

#endofstory
#jameshadtalkedtoLove
#wakeupandsmelltherunneruptrophy

but LeBron didn't have nothin' to do with nothin'...

hmm...

 

[trojanfan12]

LeBron recruited the best available player after he committed to the Cavs.

If anything that proves you wrong.

Uh, no it doesn't. It absolutely proves you wring.

I've said all along that Lebron orchestrated the Love trade. I never said when. You said he didn't. I laid out exactly what Lebron wanted to create in Cleveland. You claim he wasn't pulling the strings.

Mecca's post backs up what I have been saying.

I also said that what Lebron did was a good idea at the time. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked for him because GSW didn't cooperate and remain the nice little, fun to watch team that they were when Lebron left Miami.

 

[gordontrue]

Nike had ALOT to say about that.
Let's not forget that the Nike room in Vegas was done in Cavs colors and they had already bought up every billboard around downtown Cleveland.
That was days before James announced anything or had met with Riley.

You're telling me that a billion dollar company made contingencies for a possible outcome that was rumored for weeks???

Conspiracy confirmed.

Heat fans make Cleveland fans look emotionally stable.

 

[bksballer89]

LeBron went to Cleveland because it was home and he saw the potential for a team that could contend.

Once he made that decision he did what hundreds of other players have done.... recruited available players to come join him.

I think Lebron returned to Cleveland because he thought Wade and Bosh were washed up. Also he had friends (From Ohio) in his ear in his entire 4 years in Miami begging him to return to Cleveland. I think Cleveland being home had very little to do with it. He just allowed his friends to influence him way too much

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Keep telling yourself that.

I clearly recall the tweets or whatever of James telling Kyrie and others to be ready (before he had announced).
We had the Mike Miller instagram, etc.,etc.

James handpicked every player that was new to the roster and chose who was leaving to create those spots and acquire Love.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

You're telling me that a billion dollar company made contingencies for a possible outcome that was rumored for weeks???

Conspiracy confirmed.

Heat fans make Cleveland fans look emotionally stable.

Maybe rumor to some of us at the time, but my common sense more then tells me that unless something DRASTIC happened, it was a done deal WELL before July 1.

 

[gordontrue]

Uh, no it doesn't. It absolutely proves you wring.

I've said all along that Lebron orchestrated the Love trade. I never said when. You said he didn't. I laid out exactly what Lebron wanted to create in Cleveland. You claim he wasn't pulling the strings.

Mecca's post backs up what I have been saying.

I also said that what Lebron did was a good idea at the time. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked for him because GSW didn't cooperate and remain the nice little, fun to watch team that they were when Lebron left Miami.

Then, as I tried pointing out to you... you missed my original point.

The whole point of my post which you replied to starting this conversation was that LeBron committed to Cleveland before knowing if love would be on the team. And you apparently agree.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

He was months away from being an unrestricted free agent. He had a decision. No one was going to trade for him without getting convincing commitment from him.

I see your point.

He could have nixed the trade, easily, had he said " I have no interest in resigning when my contract ends".

Before Lebron made it known be was returning, Love was pretty straight forward that he had zero interest in the Cavs.




Jackie MacMullan of ESPNBoston.com:

Cleveland has the No.1 pick and has interest in Love, sources confirm, but the feeling isn’t mutual.

Love is under contract for next season without an option, so if the Cavaliers trade for him, he’d have little recourse. But as soon as next season ends, he could opt out and get the heck out of Cleveland.

 

[gordontrue]

Maybe rumor to some of us at the time, but my common sense more then tells me that unless something DRASTIC happened, it was a done deal WELL before July 1.

That's fine. I disagree. I understand why as a heat fan that matters to you... but to me I really don't care when LeBron decided.

 

[Black Adam]

I think Lebron returned to Cleveland because he thought Wade and Bosh were washed up. Also he had friends (From Ohio) in his ear in his entire 4 years in Miami begging him to return to Cleveland. I think Cleveland being home had very little to do with it. He just allowed his friends to influence him way too much

that thought MIGHT have been in his wheelhouse...

his entourage DOES have a big space rented under his dome piece...