Series Thread: M's vs Astros May 22-25

[cezero]

Franklin has almost 1000 more professional PAs then Miller. He's going have more opportunities to K. Miller has constantly struck out more and walked less.

alrighty then

 

[Itsmytime]

Altuve is a pesky little fucker...

 

[cezero]

it's really funny because of how little it matters

it's like arguing about which piece of dog shit smells the least bad

just looked and saw that keuchel has given up 1 unearned run today against the feckless and feeble mariners offense

all i hope for is that the angels come in for the next series and overtake the a's to lead the AL West

 

[kcden]

I know you all hate hearing this on here, but Cano has no range. And why does he play in the dirt instead of on the grass giving him a better angle? Sorry, but $240M should play defense like Pedroia (balls out).

You're smoking crack.

And the idea of comparing Altuve to Cano, which you have done multiple times if completely fucking asinine.

We paid the going-rate for a superstar MLB player.

Altuve was not available to us to pay "pennies on the dollar".

That isn't how MLB contracts work... we didn't draft/sign as an international free agent Altuve.

Saying "Paying Cano $240 million is stupid; look how little the Astros are paying for Altuve" is retarded.

That's like saying "Why don't the M's just trade for Mike Trout? He would be an awesome addition to the lineup behind Cano".

You can only acquire the players that are available to you with the assets that you have. The Mariners are fucking terrible at this, but Cano IS NOT an example of that. He was a great signing for this organization. They are just too fucking dumb/incompetent to add to that great signing.

It's baffling to me that they didn't go all-in on Tanaka (even though he isn't our greatest need). We had that market cornered (Japan, from a $ making perspective) and he would have been an enormous asset for the team that WAS available to us.

 

[kcden]

And part of the point of that last post that I didn't state was that questioning Cano's defense is just plain stupid.

You only have to watch a couple of plays by him at 2B to see that he is just on a much higher plain handling the position than any other Mariner and the vast majority of MLB fielders.

 

[cezero]

You're smoking crack.

And the idea of comparing Altuve to Cano, which you have done multiple times if completely fucking asinine.

We paid the going-rate for a superstar MLB player.

Altuve was not available to us to pay "pennies on the dollar".

That isn't how MLB contracts work... we didn't draft/sign as an international free agent Altuve.

Saying "Paying Cano $240 million is stupid; look how little the Astros are paying for Altuve" is retarded.

That's like saying "Why don't the M's just trade for Mike Trout? He would be an awesome addition to the lineup behind Cano".

You can only acquire the players that are available to you with the assets that you have. The Mariners are fucking terrible at this, but Cano IS NOT an example of that. He was a great signing for this organization. They are just too fucking dumb/incompetent to add to that great signing.

It's baffling to me that they didn't go all-in on Tanaka (even though he isn't our greatest need). We had that market cornered (Japan, from a $ making perspective) and he would have been an enormous asset for the team that WAS available to us.

i'd trade most of the offensive "talent" we have for trout, along with some top pitching. same with somebody like stanton.

and the reason they didn't go all in for tanaka is because they don't care about building a winning team. they care about the bottom line, and obviously think it will remain profitable by spending 55% of the total team salary on cano and felix. bargain basement dog shit and glorified AAA development is what this front office has chosen to supplement their big signings with, and there's little indication that will change.

 

[cezero]

And part of the point of that last post that I didn't state was that questioning Cano's defense is just plain stupid.

You only have to watch a couple of plays by him at 2B to see that he is just on a much higher plain handling the position than any other Mariner and the vast majority of MLB fielders.

instead of anecdotes, look at his stats

his dWAR is negative this year so far, and most of his other sabr defensive numbers are very low compared to previous years, and barely league average, unfortunately.

i don't blame cano for not driving the ball as much as he has in the past, but he's not playing as well as his career average defensively, and there's no excuse for that.

 

[kcden]

i'd trade most of the offensive "talent" we have for trout, along with some top pitching. same with somebody like stanton.

and the reason they didn't go all in for tanaka is because they don't care about building a winning team. they care about the bottom line, and obviously think it will remain profitable by spending 55% of the total team salary on cano and felix. bargain basement dog shit and glorified AAA development is what this front office has chosen to supplement their big signings with, and there's little indication that will change.

I would too (trade everything we have for Trout). That wouldn't get him, still. Team's don't give up that type of player in trade, unless they are down to their last year or two of contract control of said player.

 

[kcden]

instead of anecdotes, look at his stats

his dWAR is negative this year so far, and most of his other sabr defensive numbers are very low compared to previous years, and barely league average, unfortunately.

i don't blame cano for not driving the ball as much as he has in the past, but he's not playing as well as his career average defensively, and there's no excuse for that.

Sorry, I've seen enough of how dWar is calculated to put ZERO stock in it's conclusions.

 

[kcden]

Back on-topic: Cy Keuchel is really showing his stuff against our "vaunted" offense.... fuck!

 

[NWinAZ]

And part of the point of that last post that I didn't state was that questioning Cano's defense is just plain stupid.

You only have to watch a couple of plays by him at 2B to see that he is just on a much higher plain handling the position than any other Mariner and the vast majority of MLB fielders.

I have watched all season with him at 2B and he is nothing special unless you like the 'cool' sidearm throws and step towards home double play turns. I look at range and effort and he is average at best at either.

As far as your retarded rant about Trout and Altuve and whatever, you may want to put down the pipe and call it a day. What I said was I would rather have Altuve and the $200M+ savings over Cano and I still would. One player has never made a team and stats are just one part of the game. Heart, hustle, and peskiness are all contagious. Ichiro had one of the best 10 years runs of any hitter and Mariners had what to show for it? Sometimes a Joey Cora means just as much as a Ryne Sandberg. As son as you realize baseball is a team game and there are different factors involved in winning other than putting the best 9 stat players out there, then you may start to understand how it works.

Using a football reference, Manning greatest stat season of all QB's this season. Wilson, well he just won games.

 

[cezero]

I mean if he was hitting .310 or so I could see the difference, but .371 shows he is better than what we are seeing and it all can't be due to MLB pitching.

yes, it really can.

but you have a very nice opinion

 

[kcden]

I have watched all season with him at 2B and he is nothing special unless you like the 'cool' sidearm throws and step towards home double play turns. I look at range and effort and he is average at best at either.

As far as your retarded rant about Trout and Altuve and whatever, you may want to put down the pipe and call it a day. What I said was I would rather have Altuve and the $200M+ savings over Cano and I still would. One player has never made a team and stats are just one part of the game. Heart, hustle, and peskiness are all contagious. Ichiro had one of the best 10 years runs of any hitter and Mariners had what to show for it? Sometimes a Joey Cora means just as much as a Ryne Sandberg. As son as you realize baseball is a team game and there are different factors involved in winning other than putting the best 9 stat players out there, then you may start to understand how it works.

Using a football reference, Manning greatest stat season of all QB's this season. Wilson, well he just won games.

Holy shit, man, did you even read it?

No shit you would rather have Altuve at his price than Cano at his. So would EVERY-FUCKING-ONE. The point is that that isn't and wasn't a possibility for the Mariners. They DID NOT SIGN ALTUVE out of Venezuela. He was not in their organization and was not a player that was available to them. Same as my comparison to Trout, who is also not a possibility for them because we drafted Dustin Fucking Ackley.

Cano WAS a player that was available to them, and they actually went out and paid for him. I, personally, think that is awesome, because they never fucking do that. The problem is that that is all they did.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I read most of what is posted here, and over at the Hawks board, and I think you add a lot of quality to the boards, as does cezero. But I get tired of reading stuff like "Cano is such a shitty value; look how good Altuve is for how little he costs" from you because it is such an asinine comparison for the reasons stated above and all of the negative M's shit from cezero because, well we ALL (M's fans) know it is a fucked up organization: we don't need to hear about how dumb they collectively are... it's abundantly clear. But they ARE our team... and in spite of all of the shit this year, they are actually improved, if only by a little bit.

Anyway, drunk rant over.

 

[cezero]

Sorry, I've seen enough of how dWar is calculated to put ZERO stock in it's conclusions.

you'd be the perfect gm for the m's then

 

[cezero]

Holy shit, man, did you even read it?

No shit you would rather have Altuve at his price than Cano at his. So would EVERY-FUCKING-ONE. The point is that that isn't and wasn't a possibility for the Mariners. They DID NOT SIGN ALTUVE out of Venezuela. He was not in their organization and was not a player that was available to them. Same as my comparison to Trout, who is also not a possibility for them because we drafted Dustin Fucking Ackley.

Cano WAS a player that was available to them, and they actually went out and paid for him. I, personally, think that is awesome, because they never fucking do that. The problem is that that is all they did.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I read most of what is posted here, and over at the Hawks board, and I think you add a lot of quality to the boards, as does cezero. But I get tired of reading stuff like "Cano is such a shitty value; look how good Altuve is for how little he costs" from you because it is such an asinine comparison for the reasons stated above and all of the negative M's shit from cezero because, well we ALL (M's fans) know it is a fucked up organization: we don't need to hear about how dumb they collectively are... it's abundantly clear. But they ARE our team... and in spite of all of the shit this year, they are actually improved, if only by a little bit.

Anyway, drunk rant over.

now i feel even more foolish for trying to discuss this with you.

i try not to argue with drunk people unless i'm also drunk, which i am unfortunately not

lol

 

[cezero]

and don't slam keuchel

great young pitcher, and it's no surprise that he would dominate the M(AAA)riners offense.

 

[kcden]

you'd be the perfect gm for the m's then

Sorry, bud, if you take dWar at face-value, you really are not qualified to make a statement like this.
I am not a brilliant baseball mind, but I am an engineer and am VERY good with mathematics and numbers. I don't know 100% all of the ins-and-outs of dWar, but I have dug into it enough to see that it is INCREDIBLY subjective and that even those that generate its outcomes admit that it is wildly inconsistent.

 

[kcden]

and don't slam keuchel

great young pitcher, and it's no surprise that he would dominate the M(AAA)riners offense.

Wasn't slamming him at all. He is a good young pitcher. But we should not have an offense that is just completely helpless against him.

 

[cezero]

Sorry, bud, if you take dWar at face-value....

it's a good thing I wasn't just talking about dWAR then, I guess.

his dWAR is negative this year so far, and most of his other sabr defensive numbers are very low compared to previous years

sober up and come back if you are willing to try to discuss empirical data.

 

[kcden]

instead of anecdotes, look at his stats

his dWAR is negative this year so far, and most of his other sabr defensive numbers are very low compared to previous years, and barely league average, unfortunately.

i don't blame cano for not driving the ball as much as he has in the past, but he's not playing as well as his career average defensively, and there's no excuse for that.

I'm quite confused on how this isn't discussing dWar....