Series Thread: M's vs Astros May 22-25

[cezero]

now the party line is that this m's loss was especially bad because they couldn't hit an average pitcher in keuchel.

why wasn't mcclendon saying that about them against Olberholzter (1-6), or any of the other gomer pitchers the M's have been dominated by? there are so many.

i've seen it all this year. wow.

 

[NWinAZ]

Off topic but this has always bothered me. I see a lot of games in spring and on TV in regular season and we have some of the wimpiest looking players in baseball. I watch these other guys put out players 220+ and we have these 180 lb wimps. That is okay if you are killing it with speed, but outside of Jones our guys aren't all that fast. Average I would say. Why does it matter? A smaller hitter has to gear up faster and swing harder to generate power when a 220 lb guy can get out in front and put one out with his wrists.

Ackley 194
Franklin 190
Miller 185
Seager 210

Hell I'm 47 and 2 years ago I know I could out lift all those guys. I walked by all of them in spring and I made them look small. Jones is fine because of his game, but corner OF's should look the part for the most part. There are always exceptions, but I prefer the athletic looking hitter ( I would have drafted Trout just because of his build and game of course). I do like that they drafted Peterson and Wilson who are athletic monsters in comparison to what we usually draft.

 

[NWinAZ]

11m[/ame] [URL="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Mariners?src=hash"]#Mariners No. 18 prospect @JabariBlash hits second HR of the game, giving him six RBIs for @RainiersLand.

 

[cezero]

Off topic but this has always bothered me. I see a lot of games in spring and on TV in regular season and we have some of the wimpiest looking players in baseball. I watch these other guys put out players 220+ and we have these 180 lb wimps. That is okay if you are killing it with speed, but outside of Jones our guys aren't all that fast. Average I would say. Why does it matter? A smaller hitter has to gear up faster and swing harder to generate power when a 220 lb guy can get out in front and put one out with his wrists.

Ackley 194
Franklin 190
Miller 185
Seager 210

Hell I'm 47 and 2 years ago I know I could out lift all those guys. I walked by all of them in spring and I made them look small. Jones is fine because of his game, but corner OF's should look the part for the most part. There are always exceptions, but I prefer the athletic looking hitter ( I would have drafted Trout just because of his build and game of course). I do like that they drafted Peterson and Wilson who are athletic monsters in comparison to what we usually draft.

i agree with all of this.

one little thing though, is that when the halos drafted trout, they weren't sure he was going to get big and strong, actually. that and the region where he grew playing ball is part of the reason he was drafted relatively low. the angels scouts and others have been pretty open about both of those items.

 

[SeattleCoug]

i'm fine with not tipping caps to average pitchers. mcclendon should say it after losses to average pitchers, though.

Dallas Keuchel 2014 Pitching Gamelogs - Baseball-Reference.com

Please explain to me what's average about Keuchel this year?

is it the 2.55 ERA?
maybe the .98 WHIP?
his 61 Ks in 61 innings pitched?

The M's offense is terrible, but that's no reason to throw any semblance of reason out the window when discussing the game.

I guess the way I look at it is..... The Ms are a below average hitting team who saw a decent pitcher who didn't have his best stuff but did nothing with it.

On the flip side the Astros also are a below average hitting team who saw a decent pitcher without his best stuff and put up 11 hits. My point is no matter what the numbers are, it's no.excuse for putting up poor abs and looking like you have somewhere better to be

 

[cezero]

I guess the way I look at it is..... The Ms are a below average hitting team who saw a decent pitcher who didn't have his best stuff but did nothing with it.

On the flip side the Astros also are a below average hitting team who saw a decent pitcher without his best stuff and put up 11 hits. My point is no matter what the numbers are, it's no.excuse for putting up poor abs and looking like you have somewhere better to be

I get it, but it just doesn't make sense after a loss to Keuchel. After last night or any of the games where average (and frankly, below average) pitchers have made the feeble M's offense look pathetic, it makes perfect sense. Just bizarre timing that indicates either aloofness about the game outside of the M's, or being completely out of touch with reality like the rest of the M's organization from the top down.

Or maybe it's just daddy finally losing it and putting his foot down. Nothing wrong with that, I guess.

Anyhoo, I can only hope that Walker is as "average" as Keuchel has been after his first 10 starts.

 

[johnfree63]

I get it, but it just doesn't make sense after a loss to Keuchel. After last night or any of the games where average (and frankly, below average) pitchers have made the feeble M's offense look pathetic, it makes perfect sense. Just bizarre timing that indicates either aloofness about the game outside of the M's, or being completely out of touch with reality like the rest of the M's organization from the top down.

Or maybe it's just daddy finally losing it and putting his foot down. Nothing wrong with that, I guess.

Anyhoo, I can only hope that Walker is as "average" as Keuchel has been after his first 10 starts.

I think it's that statement coupled with some of his other decisions that lead you to that conclusion. If it was Tony LaRussa, Joe Torre, Bobby Cox or some else of their ilk, it'd be them sending a message to their team.

 

[johnfree63]

BTW, I think Keuchel is pitching above his stuff but other things factor into being a good pitcher and he seems to have found a way to make his stuff work. He reminds me of a much shorter, Left handed Doug Fister. The M's should trade Charlie Furbush, Chance Ruffin, Cole Gillespie, and Jabari Blash for him

 

[kcden]

Ya and they both have/had 6 homers in their first years. Springer in 130 AB's and Ackley in 333 AB's. I would trade Ackley for Springer in a second....but I bet Houston would not.

To be fair, at the 6 HR point, Ackley had 252 AB's and an .838 OPS. He then continued his nose-dive from an outstanding rookie season, to a mediocre rookie season (which continued through the next year... and the year after that...).

I mean, I think that Springer will probably be a good, if not a great player, but he is in the Astros organization, just like Ackley was and is in the M's organization: there is a reasonably good chance that piss-poor prospect development and management happens to him, as well, and he ends up being just another guy, or worse.

I really do wonder if the M's had drafted Mike Trout if we would have ruined him.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Off topic but this has always bothered me. I see a lot of games in spring and on TV in regular season and we have some of the wimpiest looking players in baseball. I watch these other guys put out players 220+ and we have these 180 lb wimps. That is okay if you are killing it with speed, but outside of Jones our guys aren't all that fast. Average I would say. Why does it matter? A smaller hitter has to gear up faster and swing harder to generate power when a 220 lb guy can get out in front and put one out with his wrists.

Ackley 194
Franklin 190
Miller 185
Seager 210

Hell I'm 47 and 2 years ago I know I could out lift all those guys. I walked by all of them in spring and I made them look small. Jones is fine because of his game, but corner OF's should look the part for the most part. There are always exceptions, but I prefer the athletic looking hitter ( I would have drafted Trout just because of his build and game of course). I do like that they drafted Peterson and Wilson who are athletic monsters in comparison to what we usually draft.

This is sort of irrelevant, but I don't trust the height and weight statistics posted by the Mariners.

I'm 6' tall and both Jesus Montero (Listed at 6'3) and Franklin Gutierrez (Listed at 6'2) walked past me during fanfest and neither were taller than me, Montero actually looked shorter than Gutierrez.

In all seriousness though, there are some guys who are absolute athletes, but there are a lot of guys who get by on their natural ability, not athletic ability (Kendrys Morales, Prince Fielder, David Ortiz come to mind).

 

[NWinAZ]

I agree, but the ones that get by on their natural ability can all hit. My point was that our guys don't hit and don't have the athletic ability. I would take a non-athlete like Edgar all day long, but we seem to always have guys that are average at every thing and not great at anything.

I just posted their listed weights, but I have seen them dozens of times up close and they all are just wimpy. I see a guy like Gomes and he is strong. He isn't anything special or athletic, but he seems to help teams win and he can hit a mistake a long way. I like everyone would love to have 5-tool players, but when they aren't available I would rter have a guy excel at something then average at everything. Whether it be peed or strength, give me something.