Series Thread: M's At Tigers...Whatever

[AceKeptic]

If at first you don't succeed, quit. That's the Mariner Way, it would seem.

I seriously want Servais or someone to really let them have it after all this!
^ Sums it up nicely, I'd say...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I can't put this one on the ownership. Dipoto came in and brought his dude with him.

You wonder if the ownership is giving these GM's a small budget for managers though, because that's all the M's seem to do lately is just target inexperienced managers ...

 

[NWinAZ]

You wonder if the ownership is giving these GM's a small budget for managers though, because that's all the M's seem to do lately is just target inexperienced managers ...

99% of the time I would agree with you on this, but this is on Dipoto. He wanted a guy that would let him run the show and he knew from experience (Scioscia) that an experienced manager would tell him to get the hell off his lawn...or out of the day-to-day on field stuff like he did with Cali.

The first right move the Cubs did in a long time was hire a proven GM who turned around and hired a proven manager.

 

[JMR]

So some of you guys are already labeling Servais as a failed manager??

 

[gohusk]

So some of you guys are already labeling Servais as a failed manager??

The wheels have completely fallen off the wagon once again. I'm not labeling him a failure but this is absolutely pathetic. It's time to just dismantle the team and move on. We're the oldest team in MLB and this obviously isn't working.

 

[NWinAZ]

So some of you guys are already labeling Servais as a failed manager??

Well I am not labeling him a success at this point. More like a 'push'.

 

[WizardHawk]

So some of you guys are already labeling Servais as a failed manager??

Where was that said?

You are evaluated for how you are doing right now. And he is not doing that great right now. Can he adapt and get better? Sure, of course that's possible.

Are you suggesting he isn't failing RIGHT NOW?

Everyone knew, or should have known, there would be a 5+ game losing streak at some point even with that strong first couple of months. They happen. Almost guaranteed to happen.

The question is how does the team respond to it and do their leaders take control and guide them out of it? In the M's case that answer is a GIANT no. It's on the veteran players and on the manager. Period.

This team has only ever had one real manager worth his salt. What would Lou have done with a June like this? Would he be giving soft casual responses to the media after yet another loss? Would his players be allowed to just go on with business as usual? Come on, we all know what seasoned managers do with a team playing THIS badly in ever aspect of the game.

Not saying he's the worst manager we have had lately. Have to be pretty darned bad to beat a few of them. He's learning on the job and maybe he will dial it in and find a way to lead a team through times like this and maybe he won't. I'm just not seeing it right now today and that's all I can comment on.

 

[AceKeptic]

So some of you guys are already labeling Servais as a failed manager??

I'm saying he should summon up the guts to throw a few deserving players under the bus, calling them out and challenging them to step up in their game. Sure, players get injured, but it takes a good team to step up in whole, not just position players, in order to keep things going in the right direction. We just can't find a way to do that, but that is in no way fault on Servais' behalf.

I do question the pitching coach, however. Who is he, and how soon can he be fired?

 

[PolarVortex]

Where was that said?

You are evaluated for how you are doing right now. And he is not doing that great right now. Can he adapt and get better? Sure, of course that's possible.

Are you suggesting he isn't failing RIGHT NOW?

Everyone knew, or should have known, there would be a 5+ game losing streak at some point even with that strong first couple of months. They happen. Almost guaranteed to happen.

The question is how does the team respond to it and do their leaders take control and guide them out of it? In the M's case that answer is a GIANT no. It's on the veteran players and on the manager. Period.

This team has only ever had one real manager worth his salt. What would Lou have done with a June like this? Would he be giving soft casual responses to the media after yet another loss? Would his players be allowed to just go on with business as usual? Come on, we all know what seasoned managers do with a team playing THIS badly in ever aspect of the game.

Not saying he's the worst manager we have had lately. Have to be pretty darned bad to beat a few of them. He's learning on the job and maybe he will dial it in and find a way to lead a team through times like this and maybe he won't. I'm just not seeing it right now today and that's all I can comment on.

Lou was also surrounded by several natural leaders. Buhner was a vocal leader. Edgar and Dan Wilson lead silently with their work ethic. We don't have anything close to that in the clubhouse right now. Maybe Ianetta, but he hasn't been here long enough, probably won't be here long enough, and would be one man on an island anyway.

 

[WizardHawk]

Lou was also surrounded by several natural leaders. Buhner was a vocal leader. Edgar and Dan Wilson lead silently with their work ethic. We don't have anything close to that in the clubhouse right now. Maybe Ianetta, but he hasn't been here long enough, probably won't be here long enough, and would be one man on an island anyway.

All the more reason why the manager needs to be stronger IMO. It can't be acceptable to play this poorly day in and day out. Accepting it almost authorizes it doesn't it? Lou would excoriate those players until a natural leader emerged. It's not just about Lou though. His style was his style. It's more the fact that he wouldn't settle for anything less than playing like a professional and doing your jobs. Dipoto and Servais need to do something to get these guys back on track.

 

[AceKeptic]

All the more reason why the manager needs to be stronger IMO. It can't be acceptable to play this poorly day in and day out. Accepting it almost authorizes it doesn't it? Lou would excoriate those players until a natural leader emerged. It's not just about Lou though. His style was his style. It's more the fact that he wouldn't settle for anything less than playing like a professional and doing your jobs. Dipoto and Servais need to do something to get these guys back on track.

 

[JMR]

Where was that said?

It was totally within the context of what a few of you were saying. Those exact words don't have to be said for the message to be sent.

You are evaluated for how you are doing right now. And he is not doing that great right now. Can he adapt and get better? Sure, of course that's possible.

Are you suggesting he isn't failing RIGHT NOW?

It's just awfully reactionary. Right now??? Jeez man, the last few weeks certainly have been terrible, but why does that automatically mean bad managing? Cuz you guys say? 3 starting pitchers hurt & two fastest players on the DL just happen to coincide with the downturn in team performance. You guys are so quick to flip out and start blaming.

Everyone knew, or should have known, there would be a 5+ game losing streak at some point even with that strong first couple of months. They happen. Almost guaranteed to happen.

Right, exactly. So why are some of you guys taking it as a personal affront? Rough patches in a 162 game season happen. I'm not happy with it, but I just refuse to throw a bitch fit like a petulant child.

 

[WizardHawk]

It was totally within the context of what a few of you were saying. Those exact words don't have to be said for the message to be sent.

It's just awfully reactionary. Right now??? Jeez man, the last few weeks certainly have been terrible, but why does that automatically mean bad managing? Cuz you guys say? 3 starting pitchers hurt & two fastest players on the DL just happen to coincide with the downturn in team performance. You guys are so quick to flip out and start blaming.

Right, exactly. So why are some of you guys taking it as a personal affront? Rough patches in a 162 game season happen. I'm not happy with it, but I just refuse to throw a bitch fit like a petulant child.

So I actually spell it out and you still poach lines and push a narrative that wasn't said?

Pitching injuries is of course part of this down turn. But how are the arms to blame for the atrocious hitting with RISP over the last several weeks? There were 6 times where the M's had a runner in scoring position with no outs and failed on every damned one of them in that last series. Every single one of them. And over that road trip they lost how many one run games where they couldn't get a runner in on multiple innings with RISP and less than two outs? It was amazingly bad.

Hitting is mostly mental. And when guys are trying to push it and trying to force things to happen their hitting normally falls apart. When a team is in a funk that happens all up and down the lineup. Everyone feels the pressure to be the hero and save the game. It's up to the coaching staff to address that. Entirely and completely a management function. Period.

They FINALLY did something with Aoki. I mean it only took the worst June in the last decade to get them to FINALLY do ANYTHING to send a message to this team, but hey it's a start.

Do you think they've managed Cishek well? Are they helping him find his mojo or making it worse? You make the call.

Servais is a first year manager. He has a long way to go to be labeled as a success. He didn't appear to do much for over a month with a team free falling out of control. It wasn't just pitching, but hitting and fielding as well. There hasn't been a single bright spot in any aspect of this team over that span outside of maybe Diaz or a couple of other individual performances here and there. Yes, I will give some of that blame to the first year skipper. And I will again say no one is telling you he needs to be fired. That's YOUR overreaction trying to put words in others mouths. He hasn't done well managing this crisis. Maybe he learns and does better next time.

 

[cezero]

i like this thread