Minnesota #1? Why not?!

[Stakesarehigh]

Cherry picking again. You start out bragging about PJ Fleck and his success over the past 5 seasons. Now you shift to "first 3 full season of Dabo and only list Clemson supposed cream puff schedule WITHOUT showing Minnesota schedule over some 3 three comparable span. I lsited all 58 games of PJ Fleck's tenure and the corresponding span for Dabo. USE the list to highlight when PJ's schedule was ever better then Dabo's!

It's beyond ridiculous to compare Minny with Clemson. Digging into the stats just makes it even worse.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

It's beyond ridiculous to compare Minny with Clemson. Digging into the stats just makes it even worse.

NO, it's NOT beyond ridiculous.

Look it up for yourself.

Dabo, in his 2nd-4th non-covid affected seasons went

9-5
6-7
10-4

25-16. Just ONE win over a Top 20 ranked team. 1-2 in bowl games.



Fleck, in his 2nd-4th non-covid affected seasons went

7-6
11-2
9-4



Dabo went 11-2 in his 5th season. Fleck could easily finish 11-2 this season, if not better?

27-12. With THREE wins over Top 20 ranked teams, including a win over Top Ten rated PSU. 3-0 in bowl games.


27 > 25

12 < 16

3 > 1

3-0 > 1-2

 

[Gator]

Minnesota is better job than you're giving it credit for.


I wouldn't be surprised if PJ is here long term. His personality isn't a fit for blue blood program and he likes Midwest. MN has b1g money and he's paid competitively and good staff budget... Not Alabama, Texas, etc money but I'm not worried about pj leaving.

I was simply trying to be realistic. UM is paying PJ the 17th highest salary among coaches. Since 2017 UM's record is 35-23 which is tied for the 43rd best record (25th best P5). UM is NOT going to continue paying 17th best for 43rd/25th performance (7.2 W per 12 games). IF he does improve UM's performance some bigger name school with deeper pockets will hire him away. That's why I said I doubt that he will still be there in year 14.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

It's beyond ridiculous to compare Minny with Clemson. Digging into the stats just makes it even worse.

You do realize the comparison is of Dabo's early program development years compared to Fleck's early program development years at Minnesota, right? NO ONE is trying to compare the Clemson of right now with the Minnesota of right now, duh.

 

[Boglodyte]

How is stating factual information riding coattails?

I already started the discussion showing how UMn under Fleck, over the 3 most relevant seasons won more games than Dabo did in 3 of his earliest seasons and lost fewer games and actually beat a Top Ten ranked team and multiple teams all rated higher than the best team Dabo beat of those early seasons.

Why are you so hung up on Dabo? Did he fuck your mom or something?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I was simply trying to be realistic. UM is paying PJ the 17th highest salary among coaches. Since 2017 UM's record is 35-23 which is tied for the 43rd best record (25th best P5). UM is NOT going to continue paying 17th best for 43rd/25th performance (7.2 W per 12 games). IF he does improve UM's performance some bigger name school with deeper pockets will hire him away. That's why I said I doubt that he will still be there in year 14.

But he didn't start at the 17th highest salary, moron. He got the team to 11 wins first, THEN got the raise in salary. No one paying his salary gives a diddly squat that he only won 5 games in his first season, as his winning 11 in his 3rd season and another 9 in his next non-covid affected season are what matters to those paying his salary you moron.

Now tell me how many coaches have won 20 games in their last 2 full non-covid affected seasons? I'm guessing there aren't more than 16 with that many wins, right? When he adds another 9+ wins this season, and a Div Title to his resume, UMn will probably give him another raise.


and you implied some "average" P5 school would steal Fleck away from UMn. Why don't you give us a short list of who these average schools are who would want Fleck, and could pay more than Minnesota will, and who could actually attract Fleck to move there?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Why are you so hung up on Dabo? Did he fuck your mom or something?

It's simple, I had a vague remembrance that Clemson wasn't much of a force before Dabo got there, not for awhile, that it had been awhile since their Natl title in the early 80s, and so out of curiosity I looked at Dabo's first couple seasons and noticed he hadn't done any better than Fleck's first couple of seasons and merely mentioned to someone that if Clemson could rise to the status of perennial national contender simply by bringing in the right coach, why couldn't Minnesota do the same thing? And since making that observance Fleck has done nothing but keep up with Dabo's early seasons.

Only real differences are Dabo's recruiting rankings were better than Fleck's have been, but Fleck seems able to find high quality players whose rankings don't reflect their talent and so why his on the field results are all that should matter.

 

[Boglodyte]

It's simple, I had a vague remembrance that Clemson wasn't much of a force before Dabo got there, not for awhile, that it had been awhile since their Natl title in the early 80s, and so out of curiosity I looked at Dabo's first couple seasons and noticed he hadn't done any better than Fleck's first couple of seasons and merely mentioned to someone that if Clemson could rise to the status of perennial national contender simply by bringing in the right coach, why couldn't Minnesota do the same thing? And since making that observance Fleck has done nothing but keep up with Dabo's early seasons.

Only real differences are Dabo's recruiting rankings were better than Fleck's have been, but Fleck seems able to find high quality players whose rankings don't reflect their talent and so why his on the field results are all that should matter.

Just seems like a useless comparison

It’s not even apple to oranges. It more like apples to orangutans

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Just seems like a useless comparison

It’s not even apple to oranges. It more like apples to orangutans

It's not useless at all, it shows every dumbass cfb fan who is too simple minded to believe a school like Minnesota could rise up into the upper echelon of cfb powers that it's more than possible, it's been done before by Clemson. How did Clemson do what they failed to do for over 20 years prior? From 1991 to 2011 Clemson never once cracked the Top 16. Well, that's simple, they brought the right coach in, and after a few years, a decade straight of never NOT ranking in the Top 16.

Granted Fleck is not Dabo, and Minnesota is not Clemson, and the B1G is not the ACC and Fleck is doing things much differently and so his results very well may not match Dabo's, he may come up short and not get any of his future Gopher squads into the cfp or winning a national title, but nothing that has transpired so far in his tenure has led me to believe he won't accomplish both of those things. But hundreds of good coaches have come and gone in the past without winning a national title, so I won't say it definitely will happen, especially while Saban's still at Bama, Dabo's still at Clemson and Day's still at OSU. But as LSU showed us, it only takes a single season where every piece just falls into place perfectly for an outlier to come along and steal a title away from the perennial contenders.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

You do realize the comparison is of Dabo's early program development years compared to Fleck's early program development years at Minnesota, right? NO ONE is trying to compare the Clemson of right now with the Minnesota of right now, duh.

You do realize by year 4 Dabo had Clemson in the top 10 in recruiting?

Minny was 49th this year

That's the difference.

 

[RobBase]

comparing MN to Clemson?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

It's not useless at all, it shows every dumbass cfb fan who is too simple minded to believe a school like Minnesota could rise up into the upper echelon of cfb powers that it's more than possible, it's been done before by Clemson. How did Clemson do what they failed to do for over 20 years prior? From 1991 to 2011 Clemson never once cracked the Top 16. Well, that's simple, they brought the right coach in, and after a few years, a decade straight of never NOT ranking in the Top 16.

Granted Fleck is not Dabo, and Minnesota is not Clemson, and the B1G is not the ACC and Fleck is doing things much differently and so his results very well may not match Dabo's, he may come up short and not get any of his future Gopher squads into the cfp or winning a national title, but nothing that has transpired so far in his tenure has led me to believe he won't accomplish both of those things. But hundreds of good coaches have come and gone in the past without winning a national title, so I won't say it definitely will happen, especially while Saban's still at Bama, Dabo's still at Clemson and Day's still at OSU. But as LSU showed us, it only takes a single season where every piece just falls into place perfectly for an outlier to come along and steal a title away from the perennial contenders.

From 91 to 2011 Clemson was 33rd in win pct. Not great but fringe top 25. If you expand that to 81 they improve to 17th

From 97 to 2017 minny was 73rd. From 87 to 17 it gets even worse...83rd.

This isn't a good comparison on any level. And it's only going to get harder in the BIG as they add more teams

 

[fishinabarrel]

We don't know that. A win over MSU in week 4 rockets them up into the Top 15, a win over PSU then moves them into the Top Ten, 5 straight wins to follow moves them into the Top 5, with only the Conf title game keeping them out of the cfp.

 

[RobBase]

Obviously MN has the bomb ass weed dispensaries.

 

[Boglodyte]

It's not useless at all, it shows every dumbass cfb fan who is too simple minded to believe a school like Minnesota could rise up into the upper echelon of cfb powers that it's more than possible, it's been done before by Clemson. How did Clemson do what they failed to do for over 20 years prior? From 1991 to 2011 Clemson never once cracked the Top 16. Well, that's simple, they brought the right coach in, and after a few years, a decade straight of never NOT ranking in the Top 16.

Granted Fleck is not Dabo, and Minnesota is not Clemson, and the B1G is not the ACC and Fleck is doing things much differently and so his results very well may not match Dabo's, he may come up short and not get any of his future Gopher squads into the cfp or winning a national title, but nothing that has transpired so far in his tenure has led me to believe he won't accomplish both of those things. But hundreds of good coaches have come and gone in the past without winning a national title, so I won't say it definitely will happen, especially while Saban's still at Bama, Dabo's still at Clemson and Day's still at OSU. But as LSU showed us, it only takes a single season where every piece just falls into place perfectly for an outlier to come along and steal a title away from the perennial contenders.

Yep, apples to orangutans.

 

[PnkPanther]

I was simply trying to be realistic. UM is paying PJ the 17th highest salary among coaches. Since 2017 UM's record is 35-23 which is tied for the 43rd best record (25th best P5). UM is NOT going to continue paying 17th best for 43rd/25th performance (7.2 W per 12 games). IF he does improve UM's performance some bigger name school with deeper pockets will hire him away. That's why I said I doubt that he will still be there in year 14.

And I think you're realistim is off base

There are two jobs I would worry about PJ leaving for:

Michigan and Notre Dame

And I highly doubt Michigan or Notre Dame will coming call for PJ anytime soon.

When looking at his record, you have to consider Minnesota's history and what PJ has already accomplished. We keep knocking on the door for the BIGW title (2019, 2021, and hopefully this year we break through). He's elevated the team and raised expectations, I don't expect to be Bama, Clemson, etc, but we should be able to be an Iowa or Wisconsin type team

Sure, if Saban retires and they targeted PJ, I would expect to lose PJ. I don't see Bama targeting PJ. PJ is going to bring to his row the boat wherever he goes and I'm not sure his own brand and slogans are going to fly at blue chip school. And if he's paid right and has a good thing going, he's not going to leave to rebuild another middling p5 team

I'm not saying it can't happen, I just think the the level of team needed to snag PJ won't come calling as they're not going to embrace his personality, his branding, etc.

MN athletic department will be getting nice boost with new B1G TV contract. Stadium is little over 10 years old, new facilities, only D1 school in state, and b1g money. It's better job than you're giving it credit for

 

[PnkPanther]

You do realize by year 4 Dabo had Clemson in the top 10 in recruiting?

Minny was 49th this year

That's the difference.

I won't say never, because who knows what happens few decades out, but yes that is a huge difference and Minnesota will not be able to recruit at level of an upper echelon team regardless of coach. For all of Wisconsin's success they rarely have classes in top 30

the 49th ranking is in part due to smaller class size this year and transfers included

2021-38th
2020-38th
2019-45th

And really the difference between 25-40th ranked class isn't much. But that range is going to be MN's wheelhouse and if you can find right players and develop them, you can be a top 25 team and when ball bounces right top 15 and maybe 10

But sane person is going to realize they'll never be in upper echelon with that level of recruiting. Sustained success will help MN elevate recruiting a bit, but I don't see us getting any top 10 or even top 20 classes. We might skirt with top 25 here and there, but that is the ceiling

Of course with new rules on transfer and NIL money, developing kids could end up being a feeder program for bigger schools. We already lost one RB to oregon who left for NIL money.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I won't say never, because who knows what happens few decades out, but yes that is a huge difference and Minnesota will not be able to recruit at level of an upper echelon team regardless of coach. For all of Wisconsin's success they rarely have classes in top 30

the 49th ranking is in part due to smaller class size this year and transfers included

2021-38th
2020-38th
2019-45th

And really the difference between 25-40th ranked class isn't much. But that range is going to be MN's wheelhouse and if you can find right players and develop them, you can be a top 25 team and when ball bounces right top 15 and maybe 10

But sane person is going to realize they'll never be in upper echelon with that level of recruiting. Sustained success will help MN elevate recruiting a bit, but I don't see us getting any top 10 or even top 20 classes. We might skirt with top 25 here and there, but that is the ceiling

Of course with new rules on transfer and NIL money, developing kids could end up being a feeder program for bigger schools. We already lost one RB to oregon who left for NIL money.

I could fully see Minnesota become a perennial top 25 program. I don't see them becoming a Clemson type ever

 

[PnkPanther]

I could fully see Minnesota become a perennial top 25 program. I don't see them becoming a Clemson type ever

I only refuse to say never because who knows what college landscape looks like several decades out

It would require a dramatic shift, but I would agree won't be anytime soon and even then still highly unlikely

 

[redseat]