Minnesota #1? Why not?!

[PnkPanther]

I am very logical and sane.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I am very logical and sane.

Says the guy who celebrates winning "natties" for beating the local YMCA teams

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Says the guy who celebrates winning "natties" for beating the local YMCA teams

that's NOT how they were determined to be and declared champs, you idiot. Too funny that you mock me for claiming to be logical and sane with a response so full of illogical mumbo jumbo bullsh1t.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

you realize that 99.999% of my life, give or take, exists away from this site, right?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

that's NOT how they were determined to be and declared champs, you idiot. Too funny that you mock me for claiming to be logical and sane with a response so full of illogical mumbo jumbo bullsh1t.

They ran roughshod over the likes of Minnesota alumni and Fargo High

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

I'm right about politics, and over half the country agrees with me more often than not and the results prove me right as well.
I'm right about religion, and The Almighty agrees with me far more often than not. I cheat in that I ask Him for the answers.
I'm a very good gambler, in part because I know people and can read a poker table, and when it comes to sports, I am right far more often than not, in part because of my very logical and sane approach to analyzing and betting on sports.
I'm always the diplomat that resolves conflicts and issues at work, and among family, in part because of my rational and logical and sane approach to all things.
I was very successful in business, in part because I know and can read people and my logical and sane approach to business made a lot of people into believers.
The only area of life I've not mastered is women, because they are anything but sane or logical, lol.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

They ran roughshod over the likes of Minnesota alumni and Fargo High

Those were nothing different than the fcs teams most P5 teams play regularly every season now.

And maybe you missed the part where they also tied Natl Champs Michigan?

Maybe when you look into your teams backfield, with it's quarter back and half backs and full back, you can remember Minnesota INVENTED the 4 man backfield as a way of stopping the Minutemen of Michigan?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

They ran roughshod over the likes of Minnesota alumni and Fargo High

And more often than not, when talking about natties, I only claim the 6 that are considered "regonized" titles.

 

[ducky]

Why not? Because this is still the same team that lost to Bowling Green and Illinois last year.

Gophers schedule is a joke. If they want any respect, they should book some better games. Fleck finally made the changes needed in that dept coming up in future seasons but they are still playing a losers schedule this year that was built to try and make the Nova Home Loans Arizona bowl game. .

 

[OUGuy1999]

This pretty much sums it up.

Don't pound your chest so hard about being ranked in anything after 2 weeks of cupcakes.

 

[Gator]

Well, I'm not going to argue with you endlessly about this as it's like politics, you are just trying to win the argument and couldn't care less about the truth. Your last line is plenty of evidence of that. Dabo's been the head coach at Clemson for 14 full seasons & half of 2008 and you think it's fair to compare what he's being offered salary wise to what Fleck is making after only 4 full seasons and that bs covid half season? That proves you don't care about the truth and only about winning a stupid online debate.


Because I can manipulate things, too. Only full seasons counted, and no 1st seasons leaves us with,

dabo's 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons producing only 25 wins and only a 7-7 record vs teams getting votes in the AP poll with no wins vs anyone ranked better than 19th in the country and with a 1-2 bowl record despite only one of their opponents being ranked.
vs
Fleck's 2nd, 3rd and 5th seasons producing 27 wins and a 6-6 record vs teams getting votes in the AP poll with THREE wins vs teams ranked better than 19th in the country. 9th ranked Penn St and 18th ranked Fresno St. in the regular season and 3-0 in bowls including a win over 14th ranked Auburn.

I'd say Fleck EASILY matched Dabo's early head coaching career accomplishments and even exceeded them.





The only reason Clemson played more ranked teams is because it's division was so weak, there was almost no competition so Clemson was able to get into the Conf title game 2 of those 3 seasons with only an 8-4 record in 2009, then they proceeded to lose to an unranked team in their bowl game in 2010, who was it? USF??? lol Wow, so NOT impressed. And then a 9-3 record in 2011, and another bowl game loss, to a ranked WV at least this time. Clemson DID improve under Dabo from his 2nd full season going forward, but not anymore than Fleck has at Minnesota if you are being honest about it and not taking advantage of the bs covid season.

Fleck actually had to BEAT 3 Top 18 ranked teams just to get into the bowl games he got them into, along with 3 other teams getting votes, all 3 bowl games they won, btw, while their 10-2 & 8-4 seasons didn't get them into conf championship games like they would of in Clemson's weak ass division.


And you want to make comments about the Gopher's not being able to pad their record in 2020 with lowly ooc games? LMAO, Let's take a look at how Dabo and Clemson padded it's schedule over those 3 years.



Middle Tennessee State, Coastal Carolina, unranked Kentucky & an unranked S Carolina unfortunately only garnered Clemson 3 ooc wins in 2009.
North Texas, PRESBYTERIAN, unranked USF & a #22 S Carolina this time, unfortunately only garnered Clemson 2 ooc wins in 2010.
Troy, fcs Wofford, not Top 25 Auburn finally rendered Clemson 3 ooc wins in 2011, but that didn't help them beat #17 ranked WV, in Dabo's best season up to this point.



5-6 fcs Coastal Carolina in 2009
10-3 Middle Tennessee in 2009
7-6 Kentucky in 2009, only 7-5 before the bowl game, Dabo's ONLY bowl win in this 3 yr period, his ONLY thru 2011, he lost to Neb in 08, too.
3-9 North Texas in 2010
2-9 fcs PRESBYTERIAN in 2010
8-5 USF, in 2010, only 7-5 going into the bowl game, a loss
3-9 Troy in 2011
8-4 fcs Wofford in 2011, that's THREE fcs chumps in those 3 seasons, in case you didn't know Dabo likes his creampuffs, too.

2-10 Maryland in 2009, a loss
3-9 Virginia in 2009
5-7 Wake Forest in 2009
5-7 NCSU in 2009
7-6 FSU in 2009, who somehow got votes in the AP poll? Who is one of those 7 wins in that 7-7 record I mentioned, just for some perspective.
3-9 Wake Forest in 2010
6-7 Georgia Tech in 2010,
7-6 Boston College in 2010, a loss
7-6 Miami in 2010, a loss3-0
2-10 Maryland in 2011
4-8 Boston College in 2011
6-7 Wake Forest in 2011
7-6 UNC in 2011

that's 17-4 vs that bunch of losers from 2009-2011. That's 64% of his wins!!!


And only 6 wins over teams getting votes in the AP poll NOT on this list, and NONE vs anyone ranked better than 19th.


They also lost to an 8-5 UNC in 2010, a UNC who got their wins vs in division rivals with 3-9 & 4-8 records, the other 6 came from 6-7 Clemson, 4-8 Rutgers, 6-7 ECU, fcs Will & Mary, a fluke win over 10-4 FSU & 6-7 Tennessee. I say fluke because they lost to 6-7 GT and 7-6 Miami. I bring this game up as it's just another example of how weak the frigging ACC is/has been. I mean two of Clemson's losses in 2011, it's best year under Dabo to that point, were to 8-5 NCSU and 8-5 GT.


Only game not listed or mentioned in 2009 was a win over 8-5 unranked BC.
Only game not listed or mentioned in 2011 was the win over non-Top 25 8-5 Auburn.

These 2, plus the 6 wins over teams ranked 19, 21, 21, 23, 23 & 25 equals 8, plus the 17 listed above equal the 25 glorious wins of the building up to greatness era of Dabo at Clemson.

NOTHING of note really.


How you feel his first 3 full non-covid hampered seasons were so much more glorious than Flecks 2nd, 3rd and 5th seasons is beyond me.

Fleck had 2 more wins in total and FOUR fewer losses, and Fleck went 3-0 in bowl games while Dabo went 1-2. Fleck had 1 Top 10, 2 Top 15 and 3 Top 20 wins vs just one win over a #19 ranked team for Dabo.



Now if you don't like that I've counted Dabo's 2008 season as his first season, on par with Fleck's 2017 season being disregarded, well, fine, take out Dabo's first FULL year as well, do the same analysis for the years 2010-2012 and STILL Fleck had one less loss, a 3-0 bowl record vs 1-2, and 3 Top 20 wins vs 2 for Dabo(a 9, 14 & 18 vs a 14 and a 19). But sure, Dabo gained two more Top Ten losses, so still 0fer against Top Ten teams, something Fleck can't claim.


Don't like that analysis? Want to add UMn's 2020 season to my first 3 year comparison, then I add Dabo's equally unfair situation in 2008. WHY?? Because both seasons involved the coaches coaching 7 games under less than favorable circumstances, and Dabo'd gain a win and UMn would gain a loss, so now it's 30-16 for Fleck over those 3.5 seasons vs 29-19 for Dabo, still THREE fewer losses, an additional bowl LOSS for Dabo, with 3-0 STILL being much better than 1-3, and only gain a win over a team getting the 31st most votes, losses to #21 ranked FSU, #22 ranked GT & that only getting votes Nebraska in the bowl game & 3 more non-quality wins over 7-6 S Carolina, 5-7 Virg & 4-8 Duke. Those 3 would make that non-quality games record move to 20-4, so now OVER 2/3rds of his wins are of a very non impressive in nature type. He moves to 8-10 vs teams getting votes. I didn't want to include 2008 as Dabo was as responsible for losing with another coaches players as Fleck was for losing with a team riddled with players who couldn't play because of an outside force that hit some colleges much worse than others for whatever various reasons.



Face it chump, my comparing Fleck's developing era at UMn to Dabo's developing era at Clemson was totally legit.


And so all Fleck has to do here in 2022 to keep pace with Dabo at Clemson back in 2008-2012 era, is to go 10-3/11-2 or better, with this season and 3 more after that to get to the cfp to keep my comparison remaining valid.

PJ won't be at UM for 14 seasons as he will either be fired for losing or if he keeps winning then some average P5 school will poach him.

As for the schedule comparison, let's line up the games side by side so that even a blind squirrel like you can see the tasty bits. The games are G7 2008 - 2012 for Dabo and 2017-2021 for PJ. For the regulars season there are 56 games for Dabo (including 2 CCG's) and 55 Games for PJ (including NO CCG's). First table is the number of P5 opponents that finished with a winning record.




Dabo wins 30 to 20. He also played more ranked P5 teams 16 to 12. ALL of PJ's P5 teams with winning records were B1G teams as he played ZERO P5 teams OOC that had winning records in the past 5 seasons. Dabo faced 10 OOC teams that had winning records of which 4 were ranked. Dabo's record vs ranked teams 6-10 compared to PJ's 1-11. Dabo's record vs teams with winning records 14-16 compared to PJ's 5-15. Slam dunk Dabo wins this round.

Next, let's look at P5 opponents without winning records (0.500 or below).

PJ faced 25 teams with losing records 23 of which were B1G teams while Dabo only faced 17 teams that were 0.500 or below 16 of which were ACC teams. Tell us again how Dabo faced "a lousy ACC schedule" while PJ faced a great schedule!!! Hey, PJ wins for facing more losing teams. But he loses for record vs these losers!!! Dabo was 16-1 while PJ was only 18-7!

How about games vs NON P5 teams?


This speaks for itself. Dabo wins!!!

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Why not? Because this is still the same team that lost to Bowling Green and Illinois last year.

Gophers schedule is a joke. If they want any respect, they should book some better games. Fleck finally made the changes needed in that dept coming up in future seasons but they are still playing a losers schedule this year that was built to try and make the Nova Home Loans Arizona bowl game. .

No, actually it is not, they got their OC from 2019 back, they got Mo Ibrahim and their #2 and #3 rbs ALL back from injury, and brought in several transfers, several who have been major contributors so far this year.

And THAT team that you are referring to, still won 9 games last year.

And THIS team's competition is not the same, either, as neither Wisconsin or Iowa seem to be major threats as it was assumed they would be in the past, but could still end up being quality opponents(hopefully wins) and instead of just OSU and some lessers from the East, we've got MSU AND PSU, both on the road.

And how did Kentucky earn respect? How has Notre Dame THIS year, earned the respect of still getting almost as many points in the poll as Minnesota? Until you answer these questions, your simple minded typical minnesota fan negative nancy response doesn't sway me in the least.

 

[PnkPanther]

Says the guy who celebrates winning "natties" for beating the local YMCA teams

We're not talking early day packer championships

 

[Stakesarehigh]

We're not talking early day packer championships

Haha

I was referring to minny hoops tho

 

[PnkPanther]

I'm right about politics, and over half the country agrees with me more often than not and the results prove me right as well.
I'm right about religion, and The Almighty agrees with me far more often than not. I cheat in that I ask Him for the answers.
I'm a very good gambler, in part because I know people and can read a poker table, and when it comes to sports, I am right far more often than not, in part because of my very logical and sane approach to analyzing and betting on sports.
I'm always the diplomat that resolves conflicts and issues at work, and among family, in part because of my rational and logical and sane approach to all things.
I was very successful in business, in part because I know and can read people and my logical and sane approach to business made a lot of people into believers.
The only area of life I've not mastered is women, because they are anything but sane or logical, lol.

 

[PnkPanther]

Haha

I was referring to minny hoops tho

 

[PnkPanther]

Why not? Because this is still the same team that lost to Bowling Green and Illinois last year.

Gophers schedule is a joke. If they want any respect, they should book some better games. Fleck finally made the changes needed in that dept coming up in future seasons but they are still playing a losers schedule this year that was built to try and make the Nova Home Loans Arizona bowl game. .

To be fair Colorado was decent when we scheduled them. New Mexico game was scheduled nearly a decade ago and the nmsu gave mn a sweet deal (we paid 250k).

Nor are we only team that scheduled cupcakes, it's pretty common even with good schools.

 

[PnkPanther]

PJ won't be at UM for 14 seasons as he will either be fired for losing or if he keeps winning then some average P5 school will poach him.

As for the schedule comparison, let's line up the games side by side so that even a blind squirrel like you can see the tasty bits. The games are G7 2008 - 2012 for Dabo and 2017-2021 for PJ. For the regulars season there are 56 games for Dabo (including 2 CCG's) and 55 Games for PJ (including NO CCG's). First table is the number of P5 opponents that finished with a winning record.

View attachment 308095


Dabo wins 30 to 20. He also played more ranked P5 teams 16 to 12. ALL of PJ's P5 teams with winning records were B1G teams as he played ZERO P5 teams OOC that had winning records in the past 5 seasons. Dabo faced 10 OOC teams that had winning records of which 4 were ranked. Dabo's record vs ranked teams 6-10 compared to PJ's 1-11. Dabo's record vs teams with winning records 14-16 compared to PJ's 5-15. Slam dunk Dabo wins this round.

Next, let's look at P5 opponents without winning records (0.500 or below).
View attachment 308113
PJ faced 25 teams with losing records 23 of which were B1G teams while Dabo only faced 17 teams that were 0.500 or below 16 of which were ACC teams. Tell us again how Dabo faced "a lousy ACC schedule" while PJ faced a great schedule!!! Hey, PJ wins for facing more losing teams. But he loses for record vs these losers!!! Dabo was 16-1 while PJ was only 18-7!

How about games vs NON P5 teams?
View attachment 308114

This speaks for itself. Dabo wins!!!

Minnesota is better job than you're giving it credit for.


I wouldn't be surprised if PJ is here long term. His personality isn't a fit for blue blood program and he likes Midwest. MN has b1g money and he's paid competitively and good staff budget... Not Alabama, Texas, etc money but I'm not worried about pj leaving.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

PJ won't be at UM for 14 seasons as he will either be fired for losing or if he keeps winning then some average P5 school will poach him.

As for the schedule comparison, let's line up the games side by side so that even a blind squirrel like you can see the tasty bits. The games are G7 2008 - 2012 for Dabo and 2017-2021 for PJ. For the regulars season there are 56 games for Dabo (including 2 CCG's) and 55 Games for PJ (including NO CCG's). First table is the number of P5 opponents that finished with a winning record.

View attachment 308095


Dabo wins 30 to 20. He also played more ranked P5 teams 16 to 12. ALL of PJ's P5 teams with winning records were B1G teams as he played ZERO P5 teams OOC that had winning records in the past 5 seasons. Dabo faced 10 OOC teams that had winning records of which 4 were ranked. Dabo's record vs ranked teams 6-10 compared to PJ's 1-11. Dabo's record vs teams with winning records 14-16 compared to PJ's 5-15. Slam dunk Dabo wins this round.

Next, let's look at P5 opponents without winning records (0.500 or below).
View attachment 308113
PJ faced 25 teams with losing records 23 of which were B1G teams while Dabo only faced 17 teams that were 0.500 or below 16 of which were ACC teams. Tell us again how Dabo faced "a lousy ACC schedule" while PJ faced a great schedule!!! Hey, PJ wins for facing more losing teams. But he loses for record vs these losers!!! Dabo was 16-1 while PJ was only 18-7!

How about games vs NON P5 teams?
View attachment 308114

This speaks for itself. Dabo wins!!!

And "average" P5 team will poach him? LMMFGDAO@youGator!!! This is the least intelligent opinion I may have ever heard from someone I'd other expect better, but your bs in this thread has led me to believe you are a moron.

First of all, it's much easier for a team from Clemson's division to get a winning record, playing against each other.


Dude, I am FAR from the only cfb fan that believes the ACC is a weak conference.

Let's look at the "conference breakdown" at the bottom of each season's page at collegepollarchive dot com.

2008 - ACC - 1182 - 3 tms
2008 - B1G - 2621 - 4 tms

2009 - ACC - 2156 - 4 tms
2009 - B1G - 3937 - 4 tms

2010 - ACC - 1342 - 4 tms
2010 - B1G - 2971 - 3 tms

2011 - ACC - 671 - 3 tms
2011 - B1G - 2760 - 4 tms

2012 - ACC - 1811 - 2 tms
2012 - B1G - 2011 - 4 tms

2013 - ACC - 2768 - 3 tms
2013 - B1G - 2446 - 3 tms

2014 - ACC - 3082 - 4 tms
2014 - B1G - 3411 - 3 tms

2015 - ACC - 2657 - 3 tms
2015 - B1G - 4996 - 6 tms

2016 - ACC - 3830 - 5 tms
2016 - B1G - 4403 - 4 tms

2017 - ACC - 2419 - 4 tms
2017 - B1G - 4833 - 5 tms

2018 - ACC - 2208 - 2 tms
2018 - B1G - 3005 - 5 tms

2019 - ACC - 1487 - 1 tm
2019 - B1G - 5466 - 6 tms

2020 - ACC - 3473 - 4 tms
2020 - B1G - 3710 - 4 tms

2021 - ACC - 2194 - 4 tms
2021 - B1G - 3805 - 4 tms

totals - ACC - 31,280 cumulative points since 2008 & 46 Top 25 ranked teams during Dabo's tenure as head coach of Clemson,
totals - B1G - 50,375 cumulative points since 2008 & 59 Top 25 ranked teams during Dabo's tenure as head coach of Clemson.

So the B1G garnered 60+% more points over that time period than the ACC and put 28% more teams into the AP Top 25 polls over that time period.



So yeah, the ACC is a weaker conference compared to the B1G. This is common knowledge among cfb fans

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Haha

I was referring to minny hoops tho

you missed the part where we beat former national champs Yale, by a large winning margin actually.