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Mets get Lindor and Carrasco

Nasty_Magician

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Rumor is Springer wants $175. Mets willing to do that?
I think they do but probably for less. The Mets have the leverage seeing as how they're essentially the only big time suitor (you think the Jays are going to that price?)
 

redseat

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I think they do but probably for less. The Mets have the leverage seeing as how they're essentially the only big time suitor (you think the Jays are going to that price?)

No I do not think the Blue Jays will pay that much... I see the Mets signing him for $140
 

navamind

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I don't think it was terrible for Cleveland... probably the most they could have gotten pre-season.... Will never understand why teams don't wait till the trade deadline for trades like this though...

My problem with this is that they had an established superstar SS that they had no intention of extending. As bad as the Betts trade was for the Sox, at least they offered him $300M. Did the Indians ever make an offer to him beyond that $100M offer a few years ago? Yes, they got two nice young cost-controlled infielders. But it's hard to envision either of them coming close to replacing what Lindor's done for the Indians. It would be one thing if Lindor was in his 30s, but we're talking about a 27-year-old. They're also getting 3 years of Carrasco, who's been a very solid pitcher.

I shouldn't say it's a bad return. It's not. They're getting two pretty interesting prospects as well. I just don't think the return justifies trading a superstar and it comes across as a huge "fuck you" to the Indians fanbase, much akin to the Mookie Betts situation. There's also just not much talent at the major league level right now and it's hard to envision them finishing above .500, let alone seriously contending for a playoff spot.

Of course, much of this trade does hinge on whether the Mets extend Lindor. I think most teams that trade for someone a year away from free agency usually intend on extending such a player though.

FWIW, here's a more detailed article on the trade with ZiPS projections.

 

Nasty_Magician

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My problem with this is that they had an established superstar SS that they had no intention of extending. As bad as the Betts trade was for the Sox, at least they offered him $300M. Did the Indians ever make an offer to him beyond that $100M offer a few years ago? Yes, they got two nice young cost-controlled infielders. But it's hard to envision either of them coming close to replacing what Lindor's done for the Indians. It would be one thing if Lindor was in his 30s, but we're talking about a 27-year-old. They're also getting 3 years of Carrasco, who's been a very solid pitcher.

I shouldn't say it's a bad return. It's not. They're getting two pretty interesting prospects as well. I just don't think the return justifies trading a superstar and it comes across as a huge "fuck you" to the Indians fanbase, much akin to the Mookie Betts situation. There's also just not much talent at the major league level right now and it's hard to envision them finishing above .500, let alone seriously contending for a playoff spot.

Of course, much of this trade does hinge on whether the Mets extend Lindor. I think most teams that trade for someone a year away from free agency usually intend on extending such a player though.

FWIW, here's a more detailed article on the trade with ZiPS projections.



I think they basically overplayed their hand. They should have moved him a year ago. With the financial situation of a lot of teams, combined with the fact there are multiple short stops available next season, nobody is selling the farm for a one year rental. 2 years of control and a more stable financial environment a year or 2 ago and they probably set themselves up for a decade with the return.
 

MilkSpiller22

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My problem with this is that they had an established superstar SS that they had no intention of extending. As bad as the Betts trade was for the Sox, at least they offered him $300M. Did the Indians ever make an offer to him beyond that $100M offer a few years ago? Yes, they got two nice young cost-controlled infielders. But it's hard to envision either of them coming close to replacing what Lindor's done for the Indians. It would be one thing if Lindor was in his 30s, but we're talking about a 27-year-old. They're also getting 3 years of Carrasco, who's been a very solid pitcher.

I shouldn't say it's a bad return. It's not. They're getting two pretty interesting prospects as well. I just don't think the return justifies trading a superstar and it comes across as a huge "fuck you" to the Indians fanbase, much akin to the Mookie Betts situation. There's also just not much talent at the major league level right now and it's hard to envision them finishing above .500, let alone seriously contending for a playoff spot.

Of course, much of this trade does hinge on whether the Mets extend Lindor. I think most teams that trade for someone a year away from free agency usually intend on extending such a player though.

FWIW, here's a more detailed article on the trade with ZiPS projections.



yea, i remember the betts move, and i was claiming that was one of the worst deals of all time... this is not the same..

but again, i do wonder why these teams dont hold these stud players until the trade deadline during the season... you get so much more... especially when you get nothing...
 

wazzu31

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How are people saying Cleveland got a haul. They got budget relief and some project prospects.
 

DirtDirtDirt

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How are people saying Cleveland got a haul. They got budget relief and some project prospects.

People seem to be pretty high on Giminez as a little more than a project

and Rosario is pretty solid major leaguer

Indians were approaching some dangerous territory where they could have lost him for nothing
 

MilkSpiller22

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How are people saying Cleveland got a haul. They got budget relief and some project prospects.

Maybe the wrong word.... But I don't think haul has a size quantity...
 

Nasty_Magician

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The package was pretty light for Lindor, getting Carrasco as a cash dump for them was a steal.

We gave up (in theory) more for Cano/Diaz. Given, Gimenez and Rosario are actually major league players and Kelenic has not proven anything yet but still crazy.
 

seattlefan75

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I am sure Cleveland has been trying to trade Lindor away for well over a year now but its hard to trade away a player that will cost a team 400 million if he was a free agent really only a handful of teams could realistically sign him let along trying to get a top prospect in return for him.

The return Cleveland got for Lindor was laughable. Lindor is the best short stop in baseball and the Mets traded away players where one was barely top 10 in their top prospects list. Of course history shows that players that sign these 10-11 year deals more than half the time the investment doesn't return well.
 

DirtDirtDirt

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I am sure Cleveland has been trying to trade Lindor away for well over a year now but its hard to trade away a player that will cost a team 400 million if he was a free agent really only a handful of teams could realistically sign him let along trying to get a top prospect in return for him.

The return Cleveland got for Lindor was laughable. Lindor is the best short stop in baseball and the Mets traded away players where one was barely top 10 in their top prospects list. Of course history shows that players that sign these 10-11 year deals more than half the time the investment doesn't return well.
Pandemic screwed Cleveland pretty hard

a normal offseason, they could have held an auction for Lindor and you’d have 5-8 teams bidding
 

catman

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Great trade for the Mets. Horrible trade for Cleveland.
Depends on how the kids develop. The 2 major leaguers are fair ballplayers, but not the caliber of Lindor and Carrasco.
 

navamind

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Depends on how the kids develop. The 2 major leaguers are fair ballplayers, but not the caliber of Lindor and Carrasco.

Yep, and there's always a chance neither of them reach the majors.
 

catman

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Yep, and there's always a chance neither of them reach the majors.
You never know with prospects. These guys are pretty highly thought of by scouts, though. We'll see how they progress.
I have followed minor league baseball for about 30 years and have seen some of the most likely prospects fail badly at the higher levels and some of the guys that looked like they couldn't play make it to the bigs. Once in a while, a guy lives up to his hype.
 

wazzu31

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People seem to be pretty high on Giminez as a little more than a project

and Rosario is pretty solid major leaguer

Indians were approaching some dangerous territory where they could have lost him for nothing
I guess just looking at the deal there isn’t one person if I were an Indians fan that I would have optimism for the future. When you trade a big star like that, you at least get 1 prospect who, whether he flames out or not, has a very high ceiling.
 

broncosmitty

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People seem to be pretty high on Giminez as a little more than a project

and Rosario is pretty solid major leaguer

Indians were approaching some dangerous territory where they could have lost him for nothing
You think we see games that count within six months?
 

Nasty_Magician

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I guess just looking at the deal there isn’t one person if I were an Indians fan that I would have optimism for the future. When you trade a big star like that, you at least get 1 prospect who, whether he flames out or not, has a very high ceiling.
In this deal Gimenez is the main piece. Not superstar level but he's only 22 and had a really solid season. You would hope to see him build on that and improve over the next 5 years.
 

wazzu31

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In this deal Gimenez is the main piece. Not superstar level but he's only 22 and had a really solid season. You would hope to see him build on that and improve over the next 5 years.
I get that. Maybe it is just me, I just don’t feel that is worth Lindor and seems like the Indians either didn’t really shop him or Lindor has already told his agent that he is going to sign with one team next offseason. Similar to how the Mariners didn’t get worth for Griffey but Griffey flat out said he would only go to the Reds or Braves and the Braves said pass.
 
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