Mayhew is about to do something real crazy.

[tpaulus_2]

I will now close my end of the argument. I enjoy debating but its not worth trying to get m point across because we all have our own opinion. I dont think you guys have to worry about the trade though because I dont think any of the teams will be willing to move down.

I simply see a team possibly going for a elite prospect while others see it as just a #3 WR. Good luck on getting the guys you want come draft day.

No reason to close you're argument... this has been some of the best discussion we've had in a couple weeks.

It's quite interesting/entertaining to see the opposing views on this one and the arguments therein.

I'm one of the few who seems to be playing both sides. Ideally, I'd love to see us add one of four defensive players- Clowney, Mack, Donald, and Barr (pretty much in that order), but I also see the appeal and value in trading up for a weapon like Watkins...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Hopkins vs. Watkins

Hopkins
2010... 12 gms....52 rec.....637 yds.....4 tds....Watkins wasn't there
2011... 14 gms....72 rec.....978 yds.....5 tds
2012... 13 gms....82 rec...1405 yds....18 tds

Watkins
2011... 13 gms....82 rec...1219 yds.....12 tds
2012... 10 gms....57 rec.....708 yds.......3 tds
2013... 14 gms...101 rec..1464 yds......12 tds

2012 not even close even counting those 3 games missed

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

No reason to close you're argument... this has been some of the best discussion we've had in a couple weeks.

Agree with TP. No reason to close up on shop on this. We have a little while before the draft, and this is really the only interesting conversation we've had in some time.

It is nothing more than discussing opinions. No one is right or wrong on this topic, in fact, none of us actually have a clue what the Lions are going to do. They could be putting up a smoke screen with Watkins for the hope a player they really want drops.

No one really knows.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Agree with TP. No reason to close up on shop on this. We have a little while before the draft, and this is really the only interesting conversation we've had in some time.

It is nothing more than discussing opinions. No one is right or wrong on this topic, in fact, none of us actually have a clue what the Lions are going to do. They could be putting up a smoke screen with Watkins for the hope a player they really want drops.

No one really knows.

 

[tpaulus_2]

That is just my opinion of Watkins. I've said repeatedly that I think he will be a good WR in the NFL. I just don't see him as being a dominating can't miss WR. The guy went from Freshman All-American to the #2 WR on his own team in college his sophomore year.

With the NFL teams going to big CB's to counter all the big WR's, IMO, the only WR's worthy of a top 10 pick are those who fit the mold of the WR's dominating the NFL right now, which is big, tall WR's, who can run and jump, who go up over CB's and teams basically throw the ball up to on fade routes in the red zone.

I don't see Watkins as that type of WR. I see him being most successful used in the slot, where his quickness will be utilized to its fullest. I will have no problem coming on here and saying I was dead wrong on Watkins if he goes out and puts up elite numbers.

Imo, those big, physical CBs that are being brought in to cover the big, physical WRs will have a hard time covering a guy with good size and elite "quicks" like Watkins. Plus, any team we face will have said big, physical CB on Megatron, so that opens up Watkins to face the #2 CB on every team we face. Throw in Tate and Bush and Bell out of the backfield, and that puts a lot of pressure on the opposing back 7.


Again, though, I'm all about a defensive player at #10, assuming the guys I like are available. I'm 110% in the Aaron Donald camp right now. If we could get a 2nd rounder, or a 3rd/4th combo for Fairley we could swap out DTs and use the extra picks to fill more holes on day two...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Just to compare trading up vs keeping the picks, trading up is usually a good idea. Most years the top talent is worth giving up a couple maybes or possibly good talents. Mack and Watkins seem to fit this mold. Get the best player we can in the first. Even if at the expense of the later rounds.

2012 we took Reiff and Broyles. Could have moved up and taken Khalil if we wanted a T.

In 2011 we had alot of holes to fill. What if we traded our 1st, and 2 2nds to move up for peterson? We'd have peterson and we'd have lost Fairley, Titus Young, LeShoure. And the Lions were trying to move up for Peterson.

2010 we took Suh @ 2 so no real moving up to do.

2009 we took Stafford @ 1 so no moving up there either.

I agree with your premise here- trading away later picks isn't always ideal, but then again those picks are a crapshoot, so you might not lose anything trading them away.

However, on the bolded part, Reiff actually graded out higher than Khalil last year, if I'm not mistaken...

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

No reason to close you're argument... this has been some of the best discussion we've had in a couple weeks.

It's quite interesting/entertaining to see the opposing views on this one and the arguments therein.

I'm one of the few who seems to be playing both sides. Ideally, I'd love to see us add one of four defensive players- Clowney, Mack, Donald, and Barr (pretty much in that order), but I also see the appeal and value in trading up for a weapon like Watkins...

arguments seems like a word that = drama
Debates much better, IMO

there's enough arguments elsewhere in here that isn't needed.. but who am I to state anything of reference

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Hopkins
2010... 12 gms....52 rec.....637 yds.....4 tds....Watkins wasn't there
2011... 14 gms....72 rec.....978 yds.....5 tds
2012... 13 gms....82 rec...1405 yds....18 tds

Watkins
2011... 13 gms....82 rec...1219 yds.....12 tds
2012... 10 gms....57 rec.....708 yds.......3 tds
2013... 14 gms...101 rec..1464 yds......12 tds

2012 not even close even counting those 3 games missed

Are you posting these numbers to prove my point? I'm confused. I'm the one who said Watkins was their #1 WR his freshman year -- the year he played 1 less game and had 10 more receptions 250 more yards, 7 more touchdowns and was named 1st team all-american.

Hopkins was their number 1 in 2012, as Watkins was suspended and not allowed to workout with the team because of the drug charges (which i'm surprised no one has brought up), though he completed the court appointed intervention and had the charges wiped from his record.

Just like any athlete -- if you miss out on training camp or spring practices or whatever you'd like to call it, you are going to be behind those players who are getting ready for the season. It also makes more prone to injury, which is something else Watkins dealt with to an extent his sophomore year.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I'm all about Donald, but Clinton-Dix just doesn't have that top-10 moxy, imo. If we were drafting somewhere between 13-17 or so I'd be fine with him, I just hope we don't reach for him at #10 is all...

From my personal perspective if Dix is rated as the #17 overall player, I do not see it as a reach selection. That's just my outlook. Furthermore he's the very best centerfield FS in this draft and could provide an impact this year. Lots of scenarios to use him. Ihedigbo is on a 2 yr contract. Quin is capable as a multi-use player (i.e. SS, FS, Slot CB, RCB, LCB). IMO only, Dix could be special for years to come but doesn't come before Donald. Just my opinion and that's why we debate.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

that puts a lot of pressure on the opposing back 7.

I'm not saying adding Watkins wouldn't make the Lions offense the most entertaining to watch in the NFL. It would be right up there with the talent the Broncos have on offense.

If Watkins fell to the Lions at #10 -- I'd be completely fine with them drafting him. It is the trading up and trading away picks that would make no sense to me, as the team has to upgrade too many position and lack depth at too many positions to be trading away draft picks, especially in a draft that is so deep in talent.

 

[Old Lion]

Agree with TP.

Wait, What?

Who are you and what have you done with Mike D?

 

[tpaulus_2]

Agree with TP. No reason to close up on shop on this. We have a little while before the draft, and this is really the only interesting conversation we've had in some time.

It is nothing more than discussing opinions. No one is right or wrong on this topic, in fact, none of us actually have a clue what the Lions are going to do. They could be putting up a smoke screen with Watkins for the hope a player they really want drops.

No one really knows.

'Zactly

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Are you posting these numbers to prove my point? I'm confused. I'm the one who said Watkins was their #1 WR his freshman year -- the year he played 1 less game and had 10 more receptions 250 more yards, 7 more touchdowns and was named 1st team all-american.

Hopkins was their number 1 in 2012, as Watkins was suspended and not allowed to workout with the team because of the drug charges (which i'm surprised no one has brought up), though he completed the court appointed intervention and had the charges wiped from his record.

Just like any athlete -- if you miss out on training camp or spring practices or whatever you'd like to call it, you are going to be behind those players who are getting ready for the season. It also makes more prone to injury, which is something else Watkins dealt with to an extent his sophomore year.

"I" brought that up 2 months ago, but hey.

Yep TrustMe, I wanted to post these numbers so you could prove me wrong. Watkins had better stats than Hopkins in 2011 that's not even debatable. Hopkins was anointed by the coaches as the #1 WR before Watkins even stepped onto the field.

You win, I lose.... feel better now ?

 

[Old Lion]

Miami is looking to trade up for Lewan who would make sense at number 10. I think we would be passing up a golden opportunity if we dont jump at it and grab an extra pick or 2.

Personally I want Barr because he gives us the flexability to play various defenses. Still I would not be disappointed if we took a WR. I just dont like the idea of trading up. I am not sold on Watkins hands. I have said it a million times already that you cant be less than average and still consistently catch the kind of ball the Stafford throws.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I'm not saying adding Watkins wouldn't make the Lions offense the most entertaining to watch in the NFL. It would be right up there with the talent the Broncos have on offense.

If Watkins fell to the Lions at #10 -- I'd be completely fine with them drafting him. It is the trading up and trading away picks that would make no sense to me, as the team has to upgrade too many position and lack depth at too many positions to be trading away draft picks, especially in a draft that is so deep in talent.

Then don't even mention a statement like, "The only player I'd trade up for is Clowney or Mack".

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Imo, those big, physical CBs that are being brought in to cover the big, physical WRs will have a hard time covering a guy with good size and elite "quicks" like Watkins. Plus, any team we face will have said big, physical CB on Megatron, so that opens up Watkins to face the #2 CB on every team we face. Throw in Tate and Bush and Bell out of the backfield, and that puts a lot of pressure on the opposing back 7.


Again, though, I'm all about a defensive player at #10, assuming the guys I like are available. I'm 110% in the Aaron Donald camp right now. If we could get a 2nd rounder, or a 3rd/4th combo for Fairley we could swap out DTs and use the extra picks to fill more holes on day two...

That's exactly how I feel, Tpaul. I voted for Donald in our Lions Poll that Rob did. Donald received 2 votes total. Donald is my #1 pick for us at #10. The kid is going to be special and IMO much better than Fairley.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Then don't even mention a statement like, "The only player I'd trade up for is Clowney or Mack".

Clowney or Mack fill glaring needs on the Lions defense and possibly give them a much needed play maker, if they are as good as advertised.

To me -- I can see it being justified if it is to add to a defense who really need help at a couple positions.

Trading up to draft a WR when you already more weapons on offense than 90% of the teams in the NFL, doesn't make any sense to me. Your offense already has Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate, Reggie Bush, Joique Bell and Pettigrew, to go along with Stafford. Is it really necessary to move up to draft a WR when you have 2 of the top 20 paid WRs in the NFL already?

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Maybe Mayhew is concerned with Clowney's work ethic, speeding 110 mph on a South Carolina freeway (Fairley 100 mph on I-10 in mobile, Fairley out of shape doesn't make working out a priority in his life). Clowney was completely gassed in his 1st 3 games played last season. We already have a red-flagged player on defense regarding work ethic, maturity issues


Maybe Mayhew sees Mack as being 2009 Drafts #4 overall selection (graded a 97, Stafford graded a 96) Aaron Curry.. You and I may see Mack or Clowney as something totally different than what Mayhew, Xanders, Cunningham and the scouting department sees.


Me personally, I don't want to trade away any picks to move up in the first two rounds. 3rd round, say their Center is still available or a wr if they haven't taken one in the first two rounds, then I might not mind depending on what other players are available

 

[Kreton]

I agree with your premise here- trading away later picks isn't always ideal, but then again those picks are a crapshoot, so you might not lose anything trading them away.

However, on the bolded part, Reiff actually graded out higher than Khalil last year, if I'm not mistaken...

I am pointing out what could have happened had we traded up. I didn't want to just skip that draft. Putting all the data up there. I do think that Khalil will have the better career.

 

[jayfan]

Topical mock.

2014 NFL Mock Draft: Lions land Sammy Watkins in big trade - CBSSports.com