Mariners 2014/2015 Offseason

[SeattleCoug]

The team as constructed is built around Cano and Felix for the most part. You have to figure those guys probably have 2-3 years left of elite status. Maybe slightly longer for Felix since he's 28 but he's also a pitcher with 10 years worth of innings on him so who knows. So the window is that long meaning we should be going all in right now. That's why its so frustrating that we aren't.

 

[NWinAZ]

9h9 hours ago[/ame] [URL="https://twitter.com/search?q=place%3A04cb31bae3b3af93"] Miami, FL catcher john baker signs minors deal with #mariners. gets spring invite. would seem to have chance to win backup job.

 

[unlvmariners]

I like the idea of a left handed bat from the catcher spot but Baker has been garbage for years now I don't see him making the major league roster. Minor league depth at this point.

 

[dude82]

The team as constructed is built around Cano and Felix for the most part. You have to figure those guys probably have 2-3 years left of elite status. Maybe slightly longer for Felix since he's 28 but he's also a pitcher with 10 years worth of innings on him so who knows. So the window is that long meaning we should be going all in right now. That's why its so frustrating that we aren't.

I don't see the point in trying to figure out an expiration date on a player's prime. Every player is different and there are too many variables involved to just say "Well, I think so-and-so only has this many years left of being this type of player before his production starts to drop off". Having said that, given how much the game has changed and how much the approach to the game has changed, it would be really hard for me to picture elite players of today losing that status quicker, as a general rule, than players from decades past. Playing conditions, travel conditions, accommodations, how players train their own bodies and how players, particularly pitchers, are used now compared to how they were used in the past have all worked to the advantage of the player.

Even the money they make now has made things better for them. They don't have to take on extra work in the offseason and risk getting hurt just to make ends meet anymore and that has allowed them to focus more on preparing better for each season, including being able to watch themselves on video whenever and wherever they want to fix flaws and avoid long slumps. Players from previous eras also often treated their bodies like crap. They did everything from chain-smoke to drink themselves into a stupor on a regular basis (sometimes the night before or the day of a game) to eat about as poorly as a person can eat and the great ones who did all that still managed to sustain long, elite careers in spite of it.

Besides, putting an expiration date on a player's prime or elite status just causes people to freak out prematurely if they see any kind of slip in that player's production. I might agree that the M's need to do a better job from here on out of trying to build and sustain a winner, but it's not because I'm worried about any sort of imminent decline in Felix's or Cano's abilities. They need to do it because we all want to see a winner and have been waiting on a winner for some time now. I think making decisions based on how long you think your star players have left at their current level of play alone is a good way to screw things up long-term.

 

[wazzu31]

I don't see the point in trying to figure out an expiration date on a player's prime. Every player is different and there are too many variables involved to just say "Well, I think so-and-so only has this many years left of being this type of player before his production starts to drop off". Having said that, given how much the game has changed and how much the approach to the game has changed, it would be really hard for me to picture elite players of today losing that status quicker, as a general rule, than players from decades past. Playing conditions, travel conditions, accommodations, how players train their own bodies and how players, particularly pitchers, are used now compared to how they were used in the past have all worked to the advantage of the player.

Even the money they make now has made things better for them. They don't have to take on extra work in the offseason and risk getting hurt just to make ends meet anymore and that has allowed them to focus more on preparing better for each season, including being able to watch themselves on video whenever and wherever they want to fix flaws and avoid long slumps. Players from previous eras also often treated their bodies like crap. They did everything from chain-smoke to drink themselves into a stupor on a regular basis (sometimes the night before or the day of a game) to eat about as poorly as a person can eat and the great ones who did all that still managed to sustain long, elite careers in spite of it.

Besides, putting an expiration date on a player's prime or elite status just causes people to freak out prematurely if they see any kind of slip in that player's production. I might agree that the M's need to do a better job from here on out of trying to build and sustain a winner, but it's not because I'm worried about any sort of imminent decline in Felix's or Cano's abilities. They need to do it because we all want to see a winner and have been waiting on a winner for some time now. I think making decisions based on how long you think your star players have left at their current level of play alone is a good way to screw things up long-term.

I can understand your point, but guessing a player's "prime" is essential, if Felix and Cano are still performing well past the normal prime for players of their position well great but if a franchise is going to eat up that much budget on a couple of guys they need to take advantage of it by actually trying for a championship which the front office has yet to even attempt. The Mariners put restrictions on themselves to succeed and self imposed a window by giving the deals to Felix and Cano.

Old school players didn't have at their disposal all of the things that players nowadays have but taking care of your body doesn't effect father time. You can have a fat out of shape alcoholic like Wells pitching strong into his prime or an in shape pitcher with picture perfect mechanics in Mark Prior not even getting into his prime. Taking the offseason off is great except that's not how younger players get better, they need to play and spring trainings are half assed compared to different eras forcing even established guys to have to throw and hit in the offseason to be prepared for the season.

And I see your point, but as I wrote it's not the fans it's the FO that refuses to try to an contend for a WS yet puts an expiration date on themselves with these lucrative long term contracts for players. The franchise isn't being run to contend for a WS, they are being run as a team that wants to make money and is satisfied if they are in WC contention come September.

 

[cezero]

The team as constructed is built around Cano and Felix for the most part. You have to figure those guys probably have 2-3 years left of elite status. Maybe slightly longer for Felix since he's 28 but he's also a pitcher with 10 years worth of innings on him so who knows. So the window is that long meaning we should be going all in right now. That's why its so frustrating that we aren't.

exactly.

there is no excuse for having this outfield. period.

 

[NWinAZ]

Mariners president Kevin Mather and general manager Jack Zduriencik attended a workout for Cuban second baseman Hector Olivera on Wednesday, Ben Badler of Baseball America reports.

Olivera has been cleared to sign with an MLB team, and teams aren't wasting time figuring out what the 29-year-old brings to the table. More than 200 scouts watched Olivera work out in the Dominican Republic in January. That the club is scouting a second baseman with Robinson Cano already in tow is a bit confusing, but perhaps they're just doing their due diligence.

Mariners president Kevin Mather and general manager Jack Zduriencik attended a workout of Cuban second baseman Andy Ibanez on Wednesday, per Baseball America's Ben Badler.

It's uncommon for a team president to attend a workout for an international player, so the Mariners' interest in Ibanez and Hector Olivera, who was also at the workout, is clear. Ibanez, 21, has a good glove and decent bat, but with Robinson Cano already manning the keystone it's unclear where Ibanez would play for the club. The M's are one of the only teams with reported interest in Ibanez to this point.

 

[cezero]

This is how the M's scout potential outfielders now.

 

[NWinAZ]

+1

 

[wazzu31]

Why does it seem that the Mariners spend so much time, money and resources towards scouting international players yet can't use crap resources on American players or spend some of that money on personnel who can actually develop a guy. Just looking at the younger guys on the team, it seems as though there wasn't any development. I can't give them a penny worth of credit for Seager, he was an after thought and what an oh sh*t what do we do type guy because they had spent so much time on Ackley at 2B that they moved him to 3B. I just remember him coming to Tacoma as a SS and not knowing basically anything about him besides he was a teammate of the next Wade Boggs yet his first series with the Rainiers he was by far the best player on either team. You could tell he wasn't comfortable defensively but didn't look like an amateur the way so many Mariners defensive projects have. Even Adam Jones looked like a fool when he was trying to be a CF.

 

[NWinAZ]

was felix the last international signing to make a mlb difference? not including vet Japanese players.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Why does it seem that the Mariners spend so much time, money and resources towards scouting international players yet can't use crap resources on American players or spend some of that money on personnel who can actually develop a guy. Just looking at the younger guys on the team, it seems as though there wasn't any development.

Thats been the issue here since the late 90's. Granted they have missed on some guys either through the draft or acquisitions but it cant all be blamed on that. Between A-rod and Seagar there wasnt a significant position player that developed and stuck in the organization. With that type of success or lack there of, Im not convinced that if guys like Jones, Choo, Cabrera, etc. werent moved then they probably dont have the same success.

 

[wazzu31]

Thats been the issue here since the late 90's. Granted they have missed on some guys either through the draft or acquisitions but it cant all be blamed on that. Between A-rod and Seagar there wasnt a significant position player that developed and stuck in the organization. With that type of success or lack there of, Im not convinced that if guys like Jones, Choo, Cabrera, etc. werent moved then they probably dont have the same success.

I know developing position players has been a problem in the past, but since Gillick left it seems that so much time and energy has been spent internationally when it seems little is being done in the US for prospects or development, case in point the laziness of drafting of Hultzen and the fact that it seems every prospect peeks at Tacoma. I get the PCL is a hitters league but it just seems there is something off if a guy can go down and look like a potential all star then come up and do squat.

 

[unlvmariners]

I know developing position players has been a problem in the past, but since Gillick left it seems that so much time and energy has been spent internationally when it seems little is being done in the US for prospects or development, case in point the laziness of drafting of Hultzen and the fact that it seems every prospect peeks at Tacoma. I get the PCL is a hitters league but it just seems there is something off if a guy can go down and look like a potential all star then come up and do squat.

Some of that is due to how they are handled at the ML level too. It doesn't appear that the organization is very good at identifying problems and fixing problems such as if a player develops a bad habit or if a player is struggling with breaking balls etc the problem just keeps happening over and over and over again almost as if nothing was ever learned or taught. Ackley and Smoak are examples that pop to my head right away.

In my opinion the first 2 major league seasons are going to be the toughest for most players and it should give you a good enough idea of what to expect from that player and if they belong in the majors or not.

 

[octagondd]

The pre-spring training excitement is slowly growing.

The offense has been upgraded a bit, but who knows how the existing players will play. Ackley could fall off again, LoMo could do nothing, Austin Jackson could struggle, Seager may have been at his peak. Who knows, but I am ready to start seeing how it unfolds. If some guys take a step forward, this offense could be very good. It is certainly nice to have a good DH for a change and that will help Cano as well. If Seth Smith can do well in the two hole and Austin puts up his last 3 years type of numbers, our 1-5 looks tough.

The rotation seems worse, but still don't know how Paxton, Kuma, and whoever lands the 5 spot will do. I am hoping Iwakuma will be back to normal this season. If so, having that 1-2 punch along with a solid 3-5 will be great. Rooting for young Walker, but if Elias lands the job, then so be it. Bullpen looks good except I think they are still looking for a lefthander. Hopefully Hultzen progresses in the minors which would give us good pitching depth to use in a possible trade deadline move.

Who will get the 5 spot in the rotation, Elias, Walker or Ramirez? Who is going to win the SS position, Miller or Taylor? Is Montero turning a corner to possibly fight for a bench spot or at least be waiting in the wings when injuries occur? Will the Smith/Ruggiano platoon work out, or will Ackley even win his spot? What about Guti? How healthy is he? Can he still do baseball stuff? What about James Jones? Exciting Spring training battles and interesting story lines for the coming season.

AL West looks tough this year. 85-90 wins could do it since Texas should be back and healthy, Angels look good and the A's always manage to cobble it together. Houston may even take a step forward. Division games will be big and if all goes well we could be in it right at the end.

Lets go M's!

 

[SeattleCoug]

Who will get the 5 spot in the rotation, Elias, Walker or Ramirez? Who is going to win the SS position, Miller or Taylor? Is Montero turning a corner to possibly fight for a bench spot or at least be waiting in the wings when injuries occur? Will the Smith/Ruggiano platoon work out, or will Ackley even win his spot? What about Guti? How healthy is he? Can he still do baseball stuff? What about James Jones? Exciting Spring training battles and interesting story lines for the coming season.

If it were up to me which its not I would say the #5 spot is Elias' to lose. As long as he is fully recovered from his injury I think he earned the inside track to a spot with his performance last year. Walker would really have to impress and Elias would have to really struggle for me to feel differently at this point.

 

[NWinAZ]

James Shields...oh ya another option gone.

 

[cezero]

Who will get the 5 spot in the rotation, Elias, Walker or Ramirez?

Lets go M's!

that's not a bad dilemma to have.

the outfield situation is the main source of stress for me. i'll have plenty of time to bitch about that later.

i haven't given up the ghost on hultzen yet, but there are some people on here who get truly belligerent when his name comes up. lol.

 

[NWinAZ]

He was never a top 10 pick in the first place. Just a good #3 at best. See, not one belligerent comment in my response...lol.

 

[SeattleCoug]

If Hultzen can make it through the year healthy I'd be ok with that. Don't even care if its at AA or whatever. Maybe if all goes well he can compete for a spot in 2016