Manning chooses Broncos

[Flyingiguana]

We even threw Justin Smith in there as a blocker WITH Sop and Boone (this was Boone making it a 6 man line, not a 5 man line as seksiwidow wants to see.

That failed for us. Now he's going to blame it all on Snyder.

I'm pretty sure we ran a few plays in the NFCC game with the 5 regular OL, Boone, Rachal, Sop and J Smith all into block.

They didn't work.

justin smith got tossed to the side by a pinky finger. it was pathetic. we need to use actual offensive linemen on the line of scrimmage.

 

[imac_21]

iblame kyle williams

Of course you do. That's because you're fucking retarded though.

How did our offense do on 3rd down?

Wait, that's Crabtree's fault.

Why was Davis limited to only 3 catches?

Play calling!!

Why did Smith only complete 46% of his passes?

The WRs suck, the OL couldn't block anyone and the play calling sucked.

ALEX SMITH IS AWESOME. LEAVE ALEX ALONE!! LEAVE ALEX ALOONE!!!

He's going to the Hall of Fame you know.

 

[ViperVisor]

Everything that disagrees with you is a strawman eh? Convenient for your argument.

A strawman is a strawman. Your ridiculous scenarios or putting words in people's mouth. And did it again after I hit reply.

You stated that the most important thing to do in football is limit turnovers. The best way to do that is to not run plays. Sure you sacrifice scoring, but that's secondary to limiting to turnovers.

Strawman but Moving the ball is 1B.

He was 17th in yards per attempt. That's the bottom half. I'm not sure how "subpar in every other category EXCEPT RATING AND COMP PERCENT" got past you, but I acknowledged his completion percentage was not below average.

Within a couple % is margin of error.

It was far from very good though. He ranked 11th. That's out of 32 starters, not the "everyone who threw a pass" grouping you tried to use last time we had this discussion.

I didn't say very good. I used "above avg" to describe comp%. And when I try to add the drop% context someone here got their panties in a bunch wanting to poke holes in a stat they didn't like.

And I used the biggest sample of relevant stats that time.

 

[dredinis21]

when we had davis on the inside he made suh his bitch. don't think we used it more than a couple times. usually we had a 6th offensive lineman in there for some sort of wacky play.

Get over this Suh/Davis bullshit will you?!? It was the crackback blocks from our TE after out interior linemen purposefully let Suh go in order to use his over aggressiveness to our advantage. Davis was hitting him from a different angle after Delanie or Vernon would crack him from the side. Please stop using this example to make your case for Davis to be a guard bc there is nothing about that play that was remotely close to a one on one blocking vs Suh.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Of course you do. That's because you're fucking retarded though.

How did our offense do on 3rd down?

Wait, that's Crabtree's fault.

Why was Davis limited to only 3 catches?

Play calling!!

Why did Smith only complete 46% of his passes?

The WRs suck, the OL couldn't block anyone and the play calling sucked.

ALEX SMITH IS AWESOME. LEAVE ALEX ALONE!! LEAVE ALEX ALOONE!!!

He's going to the Hall of Fame you know.

smith played well enough to win that game. the giants adjusted their coverage to take vernon out. it was a defensive battle on a wet field. turnovers were the difference.

if we had moss and manningham in that game, smith completes more passes.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Get over this Suh/Davis bullshit will you?!? It was the crackback blocks from our TE after out interior linemen purposefully let Suh go in order to use his over aggressiveness to our advantage. Davis was hitting him from a different angle after Delanie or Vernon would crack him from the side. Please stop using this example to make your case for Davis to be a guard bc there is nothing about that play that was remotely close to a one on one blocking vs Suh.

o come on. i just like saying suh was davis' bitch. just like schwartz is harbaugh's bitch. ruining my day here...

 

[imac_21]

A strawman is a strawman. Your ridiculous scenarios or putting words in people's mouth.

So you don't think limiting turnovers is more important than scoring? Or do you? Make it plain for everyone to see.

Strawman but Moving the ball is 1B.

I don't think you know what the term "strawman" means. It was taking your logic (preventing turnovers is the most important thing) to it's extreme conclusion. If the most important thing to do in football, is not turn the ball over, then make it impossible to turn the ball over. We could punt on first down every time, but I think lining up in the victory formation 45 times a game is better for team morale.

But now moving the ball is more important than scoring too? Do you celebrate a 90 yard drive that ends up with a turnover on downs on the opponent's 3 more than you celebrate a 4 yard TD drive after a punt return?

when I try to add the drop% context someone here got their panties in a bunch wanting to poke holes in a stat they didn't like.

Did you apply it to every QB in the league? No, you found a jpg of an article from some point midseason and tried to apply that. Why didn't you use end of season stats for ALL QB?

And I used the biggest sample of relevant stats that time.

I really hope you aren't trying to defend your case that Alex was "very good" because he had "very good" stats relative to everyone that threw a pass this year.

Explain to us all how David Akers pass is relevant in evaluating Alex Smith's season.

 

[imac_21]

smith played well enough to win that game. the giants adjusted their coverage to take vernon out. it was a defensive battle on a wet field. turnovers were the difference.

if we had moss and manningham in that game, smith completes more passes.

No he didn't. The defense played well enough to win that game. Nobody on offense did. It's fucking stupid to say Alex Smith played well enough to win that game.

We were 1 for 13 on 3rd down. That one conversion came on the last play of the 4th quarter. It left us 30 yards short of the endzone.
We had 15 first downs the ENTIRE GAME. FOUR of them came on penalties. We ran for more first downs than we threw for.

Despite playing overtime we only had the ball for 28:19.

Not counting the possession at the end of the 4th, we had 13 possessions. We went 3 and out 6 times.

Some of that has to fall on the QB.

But fuck, you were ready to sell Alex down the river two days ago when we were in the Manning race. All of a sudden you're his biggest fan again. Someone pointed out how phony you look because of it. That couldn't be more true.

 

[imac_21]

o come on. i just like saying suh was davis' bitch. just like schwartz is harbaugh's bitch. ruining my day here...

You like saying a lot of shit. Sadly, you seem to think it's true.

 

[ViperVisor]

So you don't think limiting turnovers is more important than scoring? Or do you? Make it plain for everyone to see.

I never said that. In the context of QBing it is the #1 priority.

I don't think you know what the term "strawman" means. It was taking your logic (preventing turnovers is the most important thing) to it's extreme conclusion. If the most important thing to do in football, is not turn the ball over, then make it impossible to turn the ball over. We could punt on first down every time, but I think lining up in the victory formation 45 times a game is better for team morale.

That is a straw man.

But now moving the ball is more important than scoring too? Do you celebrate a 90 yard drive that ends up with a turnover on downs on the opponent's 3 more than you celebrate a 4 yard TD drive after a punt return?

That is a straw man.

Did you apply it to every QB in the league? No, you found a jpg of an article from some point midseason and tried to apply that. Why didn't you use end of season stats for ALL QB?

Of course I would reference in any QB discussion. We don't talk much about others. It was through week 14.

I really hope you aren't trying to defend your case that Alex was "very good" because he had "very good" stats relative to everyone that threw a pass this year.

This is true. Like how he was right on average in 2009-10.

Explain to us all how David Akers pass is relevant in evaluating Alex Smith's season.

Those events are always just noise when you look at a large sample size.

 

[imac_21]

Duh

Worthless hypothetical.

Totality of our group in the passing game. OL,WR,TE,RB and QB of course but OL was the weak link, then WR. Yes a better QB makes any situation better but we didn't have a better QB. We had Smith who had a very good year anyhow.


Back to winning. AKA points have to be greater than opponent.

Limiting INTs is surely #1.

90% of TDs are scored by the offenses in the NFL and so >90% of the points are scored on offense because no defense kicks a FG, only a rare safety.

INT = You Don't Have The Ball.

You REALLY limit your ability to score without possession.

CASE CLOSED.

Take a good hard look at your quote above. Tell me where in the bold, where you discuss turnovers versus scoring, you mention QB. I see you mention the entire offense, but nothing suggests even slightly that you are talking about QB only. It actually suggests you're talking about the offense as a unit.

So, let's try again. Make it nice and plain for everyone to read. What is more important to winning football games? Scoring points or preventing turnovers.

If Smith throws an INT on 1st 2nd or 3rd down they have to possession of the ball to try a FG. Simple.

And this makes Akers TD pass on a fake FG relvant to Smith's statistical season how? I know you wanted to include everyone who threw a pass because you get those HB and WR option pass plays that get intercepted and those guys have horrible ratings and comp percentage to bump Smith higher up the list.

But if you count everyone that threw a pass in your QB evaluations, you have to conclude that Akers is a better QB than Smith based on stats.

Akers Passer Rating - 158.3 (this is perfect, so everyone understands)
Akers comp % = 100%
Akers ypa = 14
Akers TD % = 100%
Akers INT % = 0.0

He tied with Kaepernick in INT % actually. Smith, in his 5th best of all time performance, was actually 3rd best on his own team out of all players who threw a pass. But you insist they should all be included.

 

[ViperVisor]

Take a good hard look at your quote above. Tell me where in the bold, where you discuss turnovers versus scoring, you mention QB. I see you mention the entire offense, but nothing suggests even slightly that you are talking about QB only. It actually suggests you're talking about the offense as a unit.

Context bro. It was a reply to where you said...
Would you prefer a QB The back and forth was framed within QB play. You are beating this dead horse with a straw man that I don't think points when in football.

And this makes Akers TD pass on a fake FG relvant to Smith's statistical season how?

It isn't but I did forget to minus it out earlier.

I know you wanted to include everyone who threw a pass because you get those HB and WR option pass plays that get intercepted and those guys have horrible ratings and comp percentage to bump Smith higher up the list.

Aren't some of those passes completed?

But if you count everyone that threw a pass in your QB evaluations, you have to conclude that Akers is a better QB than Smith based on stats.

Akers Passer Rating - 158.3 (this is perfect, so everyone understands)
Akers comp % = 100%
Akers ypa = 14
Akers TD % = 100%
Akers INT % = 0.0

He tied with Kaepernick in INT % actually. Smith, in his 5th best of all time performance, was actually 3rd best on his own team out of all players who threw a pass. But you insist they should all be included.

straw man

 

[Flyingiguana]

You like saying a lot of shit. Sadly, you seem to think it's true.

well so far i've been correct

 

[ViperVisor]

I already spelled out how your fears are nonsense.

If in 2011...

Look at all passes.

Say there were 100 busted plays of nonsense.

Turn those 100 into completions.

Turns those 100 catches into 1000 yards.

25 of those go for TDs.

NFL QB rating goes up by 1.2 points


The complete NFL picture is a rock solid measuring stick. The questions come when looking at a players much smaller sample relative to it. You need to use a lot of context to double check and triple check how sure you are of his numbers.

 

[imac_21]

It isn't but I did forget to minus it out earlier

You didn't forget to remove it. You chose not to. We called you on it at the time and you insisted every pass was relevant.

Aren't some of those passes completed?

Yes, some are. So what? They aren't QBs throwing in trick play situations. Why should we include Brandon Banks stats passing the football (1 for 1 with a 49 yard TD) in evaluating Alex Smith as a QB? Or Shane Lechler (1 for 3, 35 yards and 1 TD), or Matt Forte (0 for 1), or Demaryius Thomas (0 for 1), Tyrod Taylor (1 for 1, 18 yards), Ray Rice (1 for 1, 1 yard, 1 TD), Brad Smith (0 for 1, 1 INT).

Why would you say you forgot to eliminate Akers, but not all the rest?

Why is what Brad Smith did on a trick play relevant to Alex Smith at QB? When we asked why you wouldn't compare him to other starting QBs, we never got a straight answer (you threw out your Jeter straw man).

straw man

No, once again, following an argument through to it's conclusion. If you include Akers' stats in your passing evaluation, he qualifies to be evaluated.

 

[imac_21]

I already spelled out how your fears are nonsense.

If in 2011...

Look at all passes.

Say there were 100 busted plays of nonsense.

Turn those 100 into completions.

Turns those 100 catches into 1000 yards.

25 of those go for TDs.

NFL QB rating goes up by 1.2 points


The complete NFL picture is a rock solid measuring stick. The questions come when looking at a players much smaller sample relative to it. You need to use a lot of context to double check and triple check how sure you are of his numbers.

This is why you refuse to evaluate Smith only against starting QBs?

Because here you go again, defending the decision to include David Akers passing in your evaluation of Alex Smith as a QB.

 

[imac_21]

well so far i've been correct

about what?

 

[Flyingiguana]

about what?

about smith turning the corner last year and that he was our best option going into this season. but of course, the filipino that just nuked my breakfast burrito could have done what smith did this year...

 

[TobyTyler]

Manning choosing Denver is pretty disappointing to me. I'd always thought he was an extremely confident player who was a difference maker. It's clear though that he chose the easy way out with Denver. They are guaranteed to win that weak division and all he needs to do is better than 8 and 8 to say he brought improvement to the team. Had he gone to the 49ers where the expectation was nothing less than Super Bowl championship there would have been a lot of pressure on him as the one missing piece. The Niners, with their difficult schedule, would have been hard pressed even with Manning to match 13 and 3 or even 12 and 4 and then he's got to face GB, N.O. NY and Philly in the playoffs. I think that put fear into Manning about how failure would effect his lagacy and he backed away from it. I've lost quite a bit of respect for him as a player over this.

 

[Flyingiguana]

manning has had to face some good teams in the past, so i highly doubt it was a concern. think it came down to elway, who seemed to push pretty hard for manning.