Manning chooses Broncos

[Crimsoncrew]

If you're talking just about the regular season, I'm with you on saying that the Giants O-Line was worse than the 49ers line. When it comes to the playoffs, the NFL took away that weakness for pretty much every single team. A high portion of the media, and the fans themselves were commenting on how the NFL was letting people play and focusing a lot on non-calls against the O-lines.

There is probably a lot of truth to that, and that would hurt the Niners worse than most as the Niners had very few holding penalties this year. But the Giants' OL was still terrible in the playoffs. Our DL absolutely dominated them, even with the uncalled holds.

 

[MHSL82]

I'm playing catch-up here, so I'm sure I'll repeat some things. Sorry in advance.

Smith was very good, even elite (if there can be such a thing), at limiting turnovers last year. In virtually every other area, he was below average.

'Virtually every' is too general for me and 'below average' sounds more pointed (as in trying to say something) than 'very good' is, but it's the truth is some categories. Otherwise I agree. My opinion has changed slightly from before, but overall I rate him higher than most.

 

[MHSL82]

Didnt someone post the fact that the Giants receivers had the same amount of drops as crabtree?

On more throws or was it a percentage thing?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Crimson, I respect your football knowledge, but I will go with Tuesday Morning QB here.......I mean, if there's one thing Gregg Easterbrook knows its OL play, and Diehl was his "Non-Quarterback-Non-Running Back-MVP" last year

It's time to present the Tuesday Morning Quarterback Non-Quarterback Non-Running Back NFL MVP - ESPN

And this may sound like typical "me", but you have a growing tendency to exaggerate Smith's faults and downplay other QBs faults, like the other haterz have always done.

Did you read that article? Easterbrook explicitly states:

On his best days Diehl is not the NFL's best left tackle, or even as good, athletically, as Matt Light, who will start at left tackle for the Patriots.

That's on his best days, which are few and far between. He gave the award to Diehl because Diehl doesn't take plays off, is assignment sound, and has started 150 straight games. None of that has anything to do with a good or great performance this year.

Here's another review of Diehl that actually considers his play this year rather than his career resume:

2011 Pass Blocking Efficiency: Offensive Tackles | ProFootballFocus.com

David Diehl gave up four sacks, six hits and 20 hurries while spending 246 snaps in pass protection at left tackle, in stark contrast to the man he replaced, Will Beatty, who finished ‘up’ in 50th with a PBE rating of 93.6.

And let's not forget Diehl's work at guard:

2011 Pass Blocking Efficiency: Guards and Centers | ProFootballFocus.com

Honestly, we’re not trying to start a fight with a big guy like David Diehl, but rather just pointing out some numbers. Yesterday we told you he was the worst-ranked tackle in the league when it came to giving up pressure, and he’s about to complete the double, because he’s also the worst-ranked guard. The Giants’ lineman gave up five sacks, two hits, and 28 hurries on the 280 occasions he lined up to pass protect at guard....

Much like when I used to argue with Cazic about Smith, I find that the zealots have the effect of making me seem like I love Smith or hate Smith. Neither is true. I think Smith is a solid player with some upside. But I think his upside is somewhat limited, and I think his season this year was only ok. He was asked to do far less than most other QBs in the league. He did a very good job in the context of what he was asked to do, which was not much.

Let me ask this: if Smith is so very good, or has so much promise, why is he languishing on the FA market? Why can't he find a team that is willing to pay him even what Matt Flynn got? I'm not saying he's peaked, but I think people around the league understand that the system helped Smith out this year, but he has not shown he's a difference-maker at the position.

 

[Bemular]

Markedly worse at every other position group. OL as a whole was terrible. TE was well below average. RB was only ok when Bradshaw was healthy, and he missed half the season. Without him it was a debacle. Baas, when healthy, was probably slightly better than Goodwin. I didn't scrutinize Chris Snee, but he was probably better than Snyder. But Diehl and McKenzie were criminally bad.

I disagree on both of your primary claims and now this repackaged claim.

First, we are not comparing Ballard to the rest of the TE's in the NFL so your statement that Ballard was "well below average" is meaningless to this discussion.

The above is just another example of you making a statistically incorrect statement due to not understanding the context of the discussion or in an attempt to introduce a straw man argument - and you do this ALL the time.

In proper context we would compare Ballard to Davis and in that comparison the tangibles are much closer than you think - not even close to being markedly different as you are claiming.

You didn't answer my question about the number of Giants games you watched, so I'm going to assume it was just the two and thus your claim of the Giants OLine being markedly worse than the 49ers is either just a guess or one that is supported by available statistics; which, if we interpret them objectively and correctly tell a different story then the one you are trying to sell.

I would say the Giants Oline did a worse job opening holes for the running game between the 20's but inside the 20's they were much better than us.

As for protection if we are to assume that a reasonable percent of sacks are attributable to the OLine and we apply that same percentage equally to both OLines then we can say that the Giants Oline was better in that department as well.

Overall, your claim that the Giants were "markedly worse at every other position [and now] position group" is false.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

You said "criminally bad", unjustifiable in any light. Too much coffee this morning?

Let me ask this: if Smith is so very good, or has so much promise,

this is just it....why do you frame it like this? I doubt a single person here says he's so very good, or has so much promise. Why do you jump straight to the exaggerations? The argument is with "below-average in virtually every other area" type comments. Everything is exaggerated. Everything is hyperbole. Its statements like that that drive people toward the extremes. I try my best to stay fair, but I know it just doesn't work.....so I'm willing to take my lumps when people say I'm not being fair. I'll try to drop this, its a stupid way to spend a day.

 

[BINGO]

Did you read that article? Easterbrook explicitly states:

Let me ask this: if Smith is so very good, or has so much promise, why is he languishing on the FA market? Why can't he find a team that is willing to pay him even what Matt Flynn got? I'm not saying he's peaked, but I think people around the league understand that the system helped Smith out this year, but he has not shown he's a difference-maker at the position.

That's all there is to say!

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

why is he languishing on the FA market? Why can't he find a team that is willing to pay him even what Matt Flynn got?

Or to turn it around, why haven't the Niners explored a single other QB than Manning? If Smith sucks so badly, why are they gonna give him his job back? If you guys were honest you'd admit that Smith could have gone places this offseason if he really wanted to, at least Miami and Seattle would have taken him.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Or to turn it around, why haven't the Niners explored a single other QB than Manning? If Smith sucks so badly, why are they gonna give him his job back? If you guys were honest you'd admit that Smith could have gone places this offseason if he really wanted to, at least Miami and Seattle would have taken him.

Quick question, say Seattle had taken smith. Would you honeslty be terrified to play him twice a yr? I live in AZ and listen to sport radio here and have few friends that are Cards fans. They want us to retain smith becuase they know what we have in him. He is average at best!

Like i said if Alex thinks he is worth more then the contract offered then bye bye! We save money with Kap and can make the team better overall.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Harbaugh had more to do with Alex's play last year than Alex. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Would you honeslty be terrified to play him twice a yr?

Terrified, no. I'm not terrified when the Niners face Tom Brady either, or if they ever faced a mutant Joe Montana/Steve Young/Patrick Willis hybrid. Terror doesn't come into the equation.

Calling him average is fine, I have no argument with that.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

Terrified, no. I'm not terrified when the Niners face Tom Brady either, or if they ever faced a mutant Joe Montana/Steve Young/Patrick Willis hybrid. Terror doesn't come into the equation.

Calling him average is fine, I have no argument with that.

Lol sorry if terrified was a little to much of a word to use there. But anyways how big of a gap do you see between Smith and Kap?

 

[BINGO]

Or to turn it around, why haven't the Niners explored a single other QB than Manning? If Smith sucks so badly, why are they gonna give him his job back? If you guys were honest you'd admit that Smith could have gone places this offseason if he really wanted to, at least Miami and Seattle would have taken him.

Or to turn it around, why haven't the Niners explored a single other QB than Manning?

Maybe because guys like Brees, Rivers, Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Cam were not available in free agency.

If Smith sucks so badly, why are they gonna give him his job back?

No one said that he sucks badly, simply that he isn't good enough. He's average at best. If Joe Thomas or Darrele Revis were available, I'm sure our front office guys would have made inquiries to see if we can obtain one of them. That wouldn't mean that the front office thought that Joe Staley or Carlos Rogers were sucky players.

If you guys were honest you'd admit that Smith could have gone places this offseason if he really wanted to, at least Miami and Seattle would have taken him

Oh yeah so why doesn't he go somewhere then to become a probowler. I'm sure we are holding back his progression as a player...so if he thought that why is he still in the market. Cleveland needs a QB badly and so does Miami, why are those teams are chillin hugging nuts when instead they could opt to make their respective teams much better by acquiring the legendary Alex Smith?!

 

[BINGO]

Lol sorry if terrified was a little to much of a word to use there. But anyways how big of a gap do you see between Smith and Kap?

+1

I honestly thought about asking him that on my previous post.

 

[Jikkle]

Harbaugh had more to do with Alex's play last year than Alex. I'll just leave it at that.

Yes and no but I don't think that's a fair take.

I mean I could say Montana and Young's play had more to due with Walsh and the WCO than it had to with Montana and Young.

Harbaugh did simplify and ran an offense that helped Smith play at a higher level than he had his whole career but Alex still had to go out on the field and do it.

That's not to say Alex was outstanding or great last year but I don't think it's fair to diminish what he did do by just saying it was because of coaching.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

But anyways how big of a gap do you see between Smith and Kap?

I have no idea.....nobody here has any idea at all how good Kaepernick is.

Going by the success rate of 2nd round QBs, and given how raw of a prospect he was at draft time, I'm not optimistic about his chances at this time. He is full of tools, but its hasty to assume he can play NFL football right now.

If Harbaugh said "he's better option than Smith" I'll be the first in line. Until then its just assumptions and baseless optimism/pessimism.

 

[h0ckeysk83r]

I have no idea.....nobody here has any idea at all how good Kaepernick is.

Going by the success rate of 2nd round QBs, and given how raw of a prospect he was at draft time, I'm not optimistic about his chances at this time. He is full of tools, but its hasty to assume he can play NFL football right now.

If Harbaugh said "he's better option than Smith" I'll be the first in line. Until then its just assumptions and baseless optimism/pessimism.

Fair enough, nobody has seen enough of him in the NFL. But you obviously think its a big enough gap for him not to be starting at all.

Do you think the deal that is reportedly on the table for smith is fair or does he deserve more?

 

[BINGO]

I have no idea.....nobody here has any idea at all how good Kaepernick is.

Going by the success rate of 2nd round QBs, and given how raw of a prospect he was at draft time, I'm not optimistic about his chances at this time. He is full of tools, but its hasty to assume he can play NFL football right now.

If Harbaugh said "he's better option than Smith" I'll be the first in line. Until then its just assumptions and baseless optimism/pessimism.

You're wrong again! Harbaugh and Baalke think they have something in Kaep. You don't waste a 2nd round pick on a prospect if you don't think that that particular prospect had no chance to be a good/great player in the league.

We could have had Brooks Reed or Kyle Rudolph with that pick. Why pass up on those guys for Kaep if you don't think he had no futre in playing somewhere close to a high level in this league.

In addition, the 3 year contract is not being renegotaiated at all whatsoever. They are not even scared (or showing minimal concern) if Smith doesn't sign the darn contract - because, though they may feel that Kaep may still need about 1/2 a year to a full year in order for them to feel comfortable in allowing him to be a starter, they are willing to expedite the process in gambling with Smith's future. Thus, Harbaugh and Baalke are "assuming" as well that Kaep can carry the team and continue to progress though he may not be "fully ready" to be a solid starter in the league.

 

[Bemular]

This season, absolutely. The late game comebacks are a sign that we didn't take control of games we should have earlier. That's not the case in every game, of course, but it is in many of them, including the Saints game. The D forced five turnovers, yet we only put up 20 points in the first 50 minutes of the game. We should have been LEADING by 20 points by that point. Instead, we let NO hang around.

The reality this season and throughout his career is that Smith rarely makes plays unless he absolutely has to. Without a great D and very good STs, that approach is difficult to sustain. Consistent play in the second and third quarters is a huge problem for Smith.

This season? Crimson, every 4th Qtr comeback ever engineered by any QB was made necessary because of many deficiencies and mistakes that occurred during the game - not just this season but every season.

Last time I checked, the monikers "Capt Comeback" & "The Comeback Kid" were positive labels not negative; so stop trying to make them negative - that is just desperation on your part.

That isn't to say that some comebacks are not made necessary because of the deficiencies and mistakes made solely by the QB, but that applys to ALL QB's not just Alex and THAT isn't the point as you would like to make everyone believe. The outcome is the only point. Had we lost those games then that outcome would be the point.

The point here is simply this. This year Alex demonstrated he could overcome deficiencies and mistakes, regardless of who owned them, and win games. The deficiencies and mistakes themselves belong to another conversation on a separate topic.

 

[BINGO]

This season? Crimson, every 4th Qtr comeback ever engineered by any QB was made necessary because of many deficiencies and mistakes that occurred during the game - not just this season but every season.

Last time I checked, the monikers "Capt Comeback" & "The Comeback Kid" were positive labels not negative; so stop trying to make them negative - that is just desperation on your part.

And this is why we need to do anything in our powers to acquire Tim Tebow!