Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to HOF

[navamind]

Morris doesn't have a higher career WAR than Palmer, Ford, or Hubbell

Fangraphs WAR rates him higher than Palmer, but not Ford or Hubbell. It's interesting how fWAR gives Morris a slight advantage while bWAR gives Palmer a huge advantage.

You're right about Catfish though. It's ridiculous that he's in. I agree about the 3 relief pitchers, though at least Eckersley was a very good SP for a while.

 

[Wazmankg]

Three greats made it. Biggie should have, too.

Piazza and Bagwell were dirty. Hope they never make it in.

Lee Smith deserves to be in, too.

No he doesn't. There are already too many relievers in the hall. Mo should be the next one inducted.

 

[$500 Million]

The idea that Mo is overrated is as ludicrous as not voting for Maddux.

 

[broncosmitty]

I like that him and Piazza don't get in even though there's just as much proof they used PEDs as there is Thomas used.

I love the Big Hurt, but it's silly he gets a free pass IMO.

Same feeling here. Frank was one of my favorites, but he gets a pass because the end of career was human? Biggio just missed, which is too bad, he deserves to be in. Also, Bonds not being elected is a joke. Roids or no roids he was a great player. Hank Aaron is an admitted "cheater"....

 

[navamind]

Same feeling here. Frank was one of my favorites, but he gets a pass because the end of career was human? Biggio just missed, which is too bad, he deserves to be in. Also, Bonds not being elected is a joke. Roids or no roids he was a great player. Hank Aaron is an admitted "cheater"....

And Mays. And Mantle. And Perry used the spitball. But I don't see anyone calling for them to be removed from Cooperstown.

 

[Silas]

Really, please tell us how you know they were juicers? Or are you just one of those drive by trash talkers?

Yeah, that's it, I'm a drive by trash talker.

Piazza admitted using PEDS. Read his book.

Bagwell never admitted using PEDS, but funny how he doubled in size and started hitting 40 HR's a year all of a sudden. Even if he didn't use PEDS, he endorsed their use. A guy who cares little for the integrity of the game doesn't belong in the HOF.

Lee is 3rd all-time in Saves. He was among the elite of all-time. When you think of the greatest Closers of all-time he immediately comes to mind.

 

[navamind]

Yeah, that's it, I'm a drive by trash talker.

Piazza admitted using PEDS. Read his book.

Bagwell never admitted using PEDS, but funny how he doubled in size and started hitting 40 HR's a year all of a sudden. Even if he didn't use PEDS, he endorsed their use. A guy who cares little for the integrity of the game doesn't belong in the HOF.

Lee is 3rd all-time in Saves. He was among the elite of all-time. When you think of the greatest Closers of all-time he immediately comes to mind.

Lol. That's nice.

So when are you going to call for the removal of Mays/Aaron? After all, they used PEDs.

 

[navamind]

The idea that Mo is overrated is as ludicrous as not voting for Maddux.

relief pitchers in general are overrated.

 

[HammerDown]

Three greats made it. Biggie should have, too.

Piazza and Bagwell were dirty. Hope they never make it in.

Lee Smith deserves to be in, too.

Biggio is known to have used PEDs for an entire season before quitting out of fear of being exposed. Bagwell was chronic and Piazza is rumored to have dabbled.

These people who like to pretend that these guys, including Jeff Kent, are clean are incredibly naive. I know it's hip and cool to stick your nose in the air and yell and scream when anyone talks about what no one wants to talk about, but it happened. Decide for yourself if you think they should be in the HOF, but please stop with the denials of PED use when they openly talked about it in the clubhouse.

As for Frank Thomas, I know of no evidence against the guy and he was just vocal enough to convince me that he was sincere. You can speculate that he used HGH, but even the argument for that is without merit and these is zero public evidence.

 

[Voltaire26]

Trying to be fair here (so I won't mention Trammel). If Bonds and Clemens were using PED's and having great success, don't you think that just about every play was? Biggio not elected after 3 years. Will someone explain that to me. And who the #$&^ left Maddux off their ballot and why? I don't understand. Ozzie Smith got in with 97.1% a .262 hitter with 28 HR's.

 

[HammerDown]

Really, please tell us how you know they were juicers? Or are you just one of those drive by trash talkers?

How about they openly joked with Houston media about it? Bagwell was just as dirty as Caminiti and everyone who knows shit about the Astros knows that. You don't?

Here comes the indignant act in 3... 2... 1...

 

[HammerDown]

Trying to be fair here (so I won't mention Trammel). If Bonds and Clemens were using PED's and having great success, don't you think that just about every play was? Biggio not elected after 3 years. Will someone explain that to me. And who the #$&^ left Maddux off their ballot and why? I don't understand. Ozzie Smith got in with 97.1% a .262 hitter with 28 HR's.

Sure, be happy to!

 

[$500 Million]

relief pitchers in general are overrated.

Yes, but we're not talking about a "in general" relief pitcher.


Then again he was probably "in general" to non-Yankee fans.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah, that's it, I'm a drive by trash talker.

Piazza admitted using PEDS. Read his book.

Bagwell never admitted using PEDS, but funny how he doubled in size and started hitting 40 HR's a year all of a sudden. Even if he didn't use PEDS, he endorsed their use. A guy who cares little for the integrity of the game doesn't belong in the HOF.

Lee is 3rd all-time in Saves. He was among the elite of all-time. When you think of the greatest Closers of all-time he immediately comes to mind.

Can I get a link with any evidence of Bagwell using roids? Besides just rumors. And when I think of the greatest closers of all time, Lee Smith does not come to mind. He may come to your mind, but from what you've posted I would conclude that doesn't say too much.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Yeah, that's it, I'm a drive by trash talker.

Piazza admitted using PEDS. Read his book.

Bagwell never admitted using PEDS, but funny how he doubled in size and started hitting 40 HR's a year all of a sudden. Even if he didn't use PEDS, he endorsed their use. A guy who cares little for the integrity of the game doesn't belong in the HOF.

Lee is 3rd all-time in Saves. He was among the elite of all-time. When you think of the greatest Closers of all-time he immediately comes to mind.

Aaron admitted using PEDs, where is the fight to get him thrown out of the HOF?

 

[Blitzville]

people are still pretending like these guys never used? too much...

 

[$500 Million]

I'm in the "I don't give a shit who used what" camp.

 

[Voltaire26]

Yes, but we're not talking about a "in general" relief pitcher.


Then again he was probably "in general" to non-Yankee fans.

I wonder what kind of shit head excuse they will give for not making Mariano Riveria a unanimous selection (he was on the same team as A-Rod)

 

[broncosmitty]

And Mays. And Mantle. And Perry used the spitball. But I don't see anyone calling for them to be removed from Cooperstown.

Nope. Im sure there are dozens of HOFers who "juiced" in their day. Be it steroids, amphetamines, coke or what have you. (I like that at one point the spitball being allowed again was discussd by Commish Frick. And prior to that, those who were notorious spitballers were grandfathered in when the pitch was completely outlawed after WWI.). But anyone from the current era who got caught up in the witch hunt gets black balled.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Lee is 3rd all-time in Saves. He was among the elite of all-time. When you think of the greatest Closers of all-time he immediately comes to mind.

So what? And Joe Borowski had 46 saves in a season with terrible numbers.

Are having a lot of saves supposed to mean something? If you can have a crappy season and have a lot of saves, how is that alone a determinant for his HOF status?

Let's face it...he blew a lot of games (100+), and that's before you consider he didn't throw as many innings as other such as Gossage, Wilhelm, Fingers. His ERA, WHIP, K/BB rates are all unspectacular for someone who's supposedly a 'HOF caliber' closer.