Lions Mt. Rushmore

[RobBase]

Calvin Johnson 6 years 488/7836/54

Herman Moore 1992-1997 517/7349/52.

That is a fascinating stat. Wow.

 

[themuzzer]

That is a fascinating stat. Wow.

I thought the same thing....So why does CJ get all the press and love and Herman Moore outside of Michigan didn't recieve as much?

Quite frankly I was shocked when I saw that stat considering I watched alot of Herman Moore and never thought he was as good as CJ.....Maybe stats are decieving because CJ just looks better doing it......Maybe it's because talent has come so far in 15-20 years and CJ still makes it look easy.

 

[obxyankeefan]

I thought the same thing....So why does CJ get all the press and love and Herman Moore outside of Michigan didn't recieve as much?

Quite frankly I was shocked when I saw that stat considering I watched alot of Herman Moore and never thought he was as good as CJ.....Maybe stats are decieving because CJ just looks better doing it......Maybe it's because talent has come so far in 15-20 years and CJ still makes it look easy.

Simple answer Barry Sanders.

Barry was the focus of the opposing teams defense. Barry was the focus of the media. Barry was the focus of the fans. Most Lions fans despised Scott Mitchell and all his receivers as an extension of him.

Lastly no Internet in the early to mid 90s, so the bombardment of players was not there and most people didn't notice what Moore was doing.

 

[themuzzer]

I'll give you most of that obx......Moore still didn't make it look as easy as CJ does though.....Maybe if the Lions had Sanders the past 6 years CJs stats might be different.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

So why does CJ get all the press and love and Herman Moore outside of Michigan didn't recieve as much?

My guess is that Calvin Johnson has a kewl nickname given to him by Roy Williams that caught on by the fans and media and Herman Moore didn't. Megatron is the evil villain leader of the decepticons and everyone loves the motor city bad boy image. Just kidding.

When Moore was drafted most people were sayin' "who the heck is this guy?"
Before Calvin was drafted he was being hyped by the Media. A ploy to get Millen to draft another WR? I can recall a lot of mixed feelings on CBS about drafting Calvin. Some believed in the hype and others were irritated by taking another WR. And yeah, Calvin is living up to the hype with Stafford at the helm.

 

[obxyankeefan]

My guess is that Calvin Johnson has a kewl nickname given to him by Roy Williams that caught on by the fans and media and Herman Moore didn't. Megatron is the evil villain leader of the decepticons and everyone loves the motor city bad boy image. Just kidding.

When Moore was drafted most people were sayin' "who the heck is this guy?"
Before Calvin was drafted he was being hyped by the Media. A ploy to get Millen to draft another WR? I can recall a lot of mixed feelings on CBS about drafting Calvin. Some believed in the hype and others were irritated by taking another WR. And yeah, Calvin is living up to the hype with Stafford at the helm.

Moore to Moore show had UVA at #1 in the country for 3 weeks in 1990. Herman was the 10th overall pick by the Lions and #6 in Heisman voting that year.

I am and have always been a big fan of Moores, but I did say that one more year of 80/1200/8 by CJ and he passes Moore as the best receiver in Lions history.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I thought the same thing....So why does CJ get all the press and love and Herman Moore outside of Michigan didn't recieve as much?

Quite frankly I was shocked when I saw that stat considering I watched alot of Herman Moore and never thought he was as good as CJ.....Maybe stats are decieving because CJ just looks better doing it......Maybe it's because talent has come so far in 15-20 years and CJ still makes it look easy.

To be fair were comparing Moore's best 6 years with CJ's first six years...

 

[Quackerjacked]

He was also overshadowed by playing at a time when Jerry Rice was still playing at a high level. Even when he had his best years, he was never the best receiver in the league at the time.

 

[tpaulus_2]

CJ puts Rice into better perspective for me. As great as Calvin is, Rice was even more productive on the field. I don't think CJ, as dominating as he is, will ever catch Rice's career yardage mark...

 

[obxyankeefan]

To be fair were comparing Moore's best 6 years with CJ's first six years...

No Moore years 2-7. For some reason Fontes did not play Moore that much his first year.

 

[jdwills126]

I like Moore and think he was a stellar WR. But the Lions also had a guy named Sanders in the backfield that teams had to put 8 in the box for if not 9.

Since CJ has been in Detroit they have had no real ground game. Teams found it easier to double and sometimes triple by bracketing CJ. Cheating safeties and rotting guys to CJs side of the field has been easy.

No way, no how could teams do what they do to both CJ and Stafford if the Lions had a rushing threat like Barry Sanders.

Plus Moore had a partner at the #2 receiver spot that wasn't too bad in his own right in Perriman.

This isn't a bash Moore for CJ's sake as Moore was a terrific receiver but everyone on the Lions caught a tail wind from riding Barry's coat tails.

 

[obxyankeefan]

I like Moore and think he was a stellar WR. But the Lions also had a guy named Sanders in the backfield that teams had to put 8 in the box for if not 9.

Since CJ has been in Detroit they have had no real ground game. Teams found it easier to double and sometimes triple by bracketing CJ. Cheating safeties and rotting guys to CJs side of the field has been easy.

No way, no how could teams do what they do to both CJ and Stafford if the Lions had a rushing threat like Barry Sanders.

Plus Moore had a partner at the #2 receiver spot that wasn't too bad in his own right in Perriman.

This isn't a bash Moore for CJ's sake as Moore was a terrific receiver but everyone on the Lions caught a tail wind from riding Barry's coat tails.

I agree about Sanders and mention this already. And in rebuttal, Moore played in a day when passing was tougher.

don't forget Morton as the third receiver that year.

I want to see CJ break everyone of Moore's record, just like the rest of us.

Finally this is a thread about great Lions and in no why have I meant to bash on CJ, if anyone feels I have.







One more thing just to enlighten yall on something:

Hypothetical

Player A played for the Lions 15 year ago and went to Michigan
Player B plays for the Lions now and went to Perdue
Both play the same position and have very close stats.
Which one is the better player to the Michigan fans?


I am life long UVA fan and remember Moore when he played there. Also remember CJ at Ga Tech.

 

[Quackerjacked]

About passing being easier I read an article on that. Passing might have been easier, but the number one wide receivers were more productive. The year he had 122 catches there was a guy with 120 and a whole group of guys with 1500. With the evolution to the spread offense it is harder for a number one receiver to dominate production wise. You have slot receivers, tight ends that are glorified receivers, and running backs hogging receptions.

 

[jdwills126]

I don't know about the production being watered down????

I think the QB position is vastly better than it was 90's. Rogers, Brees, Manning, Brady! Stafford, Rivers, E. Manning, Ryan, Romo! Newton, RG3, Kapernick! A whole lot of talent where in the 90's it seemed you had two or three greats and a lot of flawed signal callers.

The game evolves players get bigger, faster, stronger! In the 70's d-lineman were a heavy 240lbs. A guy lke CJ is a freak regardless of what era or what offense.

I think a better question would be could CJ duplicate his numbers with Scott Mitchell as a QB and a run first offense?

 

[Quackerjacked]

I think the answer is yes. The number one receiver in that answer was able to get 122 catches. Calvin would get his looks, and definitely would see more single coverage. I think he is actually suited better to a more run oriented offense because I think that it lends itself to a higher percentage of your passing plays being explosive. Imagine if we were able to rely on a heavy play action to help out our passing game allowing CJ to get behind the safety and Stafford to put it deep.

 

[Quackerjacked]

I also meant to say that passing is up, but the production of number one receiver in those offenses are down.

 

[jdwills126]

I would keep this going but I have not eaten today and have started drinking tequila....unless some Ben and Jerry's Ice cream counts. So to quote a legend

"Ahhh no more yankee my wankie, the Donger needs food."

 

[Quackerjacked]

Ok looking at a comparision of their numbers versus their contemporaries.

Herman Moore made the top five in receiving yards only two seasons. In his best season he was still overshadowed by Rice and Isaac Bruce who still topped his 1600 yards season. In fact that season contained 4 1600 yard receivers and a fifth within 5 yards of 1500. Don't forget that Brett Perriman put up 1488 opposite from him. He also only had 4 1000 yard seasons. in three of those the number 2 receiver had 1000 plus yards and in 2 had almost the same stats.

Compare that to Calvin Johnson who has led the league in yards twice. Was in the top 5 a third time. This past year he was the only receiver to surpass 1600 yards. He also has had the most productive back to back seasons of all time.

While Moore had a great four year run, he was never anything better than in the conversation for top tier of receivers at time. You can say that the one section of Herman Moore's career compares to the whole of Johnson's career, but that is just silly. Yes his numbers are almost as good if you look at it that way but how about this: In 12 seasons Moore has 8 more TDs than Calvin in six seasons. He has only about 1300 more receiving yards. The only record that he isn't very likely to lose this year is receptions in which he has Calvin beat by 162 receptions. Calvin's career YPC is 2 and half yards higher than Moore's and was only surpassed in two individual seasons that Moore had at least 6 receptions.

So in closing: Moore played with better contemporaries at the WR position. He saw less coverage, and he wasn't as good as Calvin.

 

[LionsWhyMe]

CJ puts Rice into better perspective for me. As great as Calvin is, Rice was even more productive on the field. I don't think CJ, as dominating as he is, will ever catch Rice's career yardage mark...

Jerry Rice entered the league with a future HoF QB (Joe Montana with 2 SB rings) at the helm. Calvin entered in with the likes of Jon Kitna, Dan Orlovsky and couch potato Daunte Culpepper and an Organization upside down. Rice had 30 more yards and 25 more td's than Calvin in his first 6 years. Comparing the Silver Spoon to Rags only confirms Calvin has the skill to be number 1.

 

[K.J.Ester]

Personally, if I had to pick a WR in his prime to have on my team, it would be CJ over Rice. Rice was great but he had two of the best QBs to ever play the game throwing to him and a good running game as well. CJ has had no running game and really no real good WR to draw coverage away from him. Defenses come in planning to stop CJ first and foremost and he still put up huge years. Would have had plenty of TDs too if Linehan had any idea how to use him in the end zone.

My Rushmore would havee to be.....

Barry Sanders - The best and most electrifying RB to ever play the game. Would have destroyed every record if Fontes wasnt afraid to get him hurt in goal line situations and if he had a good O-line.

Calvin Johnson - IMO, the best WR to ever play the game. I have no idea why they wont throw jump balls to him in the endzone now and then and if they had a good running game he would be unstoppable.

Chris Spielman - Many wont add a defensive player, but I will be surprised if the Lions ever see a better LB on the team. The guy was in on every tackle and led the team in tackles even with a torn pec muscle. He was not real fast or big, but when it came to pure football instincts, he was as great as they came.

???? --- I am lost on the fourth player to be honest. Moore was great, but does he belong above Layne or Lane? I dont know because I dont remember the other two. I cant honestly make a fair judgement so I leave this one open. If Sims would have had a longer career, I would have added him here. With the short career, he makes me question if he belongs above the others here.

BTW -- The reason Fontes did not play Moore much his rookie year, if memory serves me right, was because he sucked that year. It turned out that he had a vision problem and they got him contacts and he became a stud after that. Now I might be mixing him up with another player, but I know that story is true for someone and I believe it was Moore.