Linebackers

[Muddler]

Posted this in another forum. Just wondering what you guys think about this thought:

So everyone knows our situation: ILB appears over-stocked with talented, young players while our OLBs are either old, unproven or UFAs.

Here's a list of the LBS on the roster (from ESPN):

OLBS:
Harrison 6'0 275 (surprised he was that heavy - I thought he was in the 260 range)
Worilds 6'2 262
Moats 6-2 250
Jones 6-2 245

ILBs:
Williams 6'1 250
Shazier 6'1 237
Spence 5'11 231
Timmons 6'1 234

Tweener?:
Zumwalt 6'4 235

ST:
Garvin 6'3 221


There has been some discussion in the past of moving Shazier to OLB which is quickly squashed and probably rightfully so since when you look at his size he fits better with the other ILBs. My question is: What about moving Vince Williams to the outside? I've really come to appreciate him as a great run stuffer - a younger Larry Foote clone IMO. THe guy hits hard and with serious aggression but is a major liability in coverage. He has a larger frame than most of our other ILBs - heavier than JJ and similar to Moats. Anyone think a switch to OLB might work with him?

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I don't see why not? V-Will's strength has always been in the trenches (run support/pass rush), which is the primary duty of Lebeau's OLB's. I could easily get on board with that move!

Zumwalt was being worked at OLB all offseason. Hard to see him making a huge impact on the outside without putting on some bulk, but that's obtainable. Love this kids' fire & intensity. Can't wait to see him in Latrobe again.

Shazier... His freakish athleticism is better suited between the hashmarks. He can cover a lot of ground, and will help shore up the intermediate passing lanes. He has a very high football IQ so I see this kid making waves next season. Even LT has stated this, and coming from him (best football IQ on the defense currently IMO) that's great news. I just don't see his smaller frame taking on OT's in a 3-4 defense. Sure he can blitz around them, but if they run right at him it would be hard for Shazier to hold the point of attack. He would likely get bowled over every time.

One person I think a lot of people are going to overlook is Howard Johnson, aka HOJO! I've been sweating bullets all season thinking that someone was going to vulture him off our PS! He has a lot of raw talent, but IMO he is a better 'experimental' talent than Chris Carter ever was. It will take time to mold him though, so not likely much impact in 2015.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Interesting to see all these guys listed on one page for height/weight...I didn't think JH played that heavy either, but there's not much fat there...Timmons looks bigger than 234 too.

Williams @ OLB? I've never given it much thought actually. He seems to really fit his sub pkg role well...He should be able to contain the edge vs the run, but I'd like to know what kind of pass rush moves he has.

I've heard more than one guy talk about Zumwalt and Hojo...it would be great if one of them can play OLB.

I really like how Todd Bowles (AZ's DC) uses fast players (CBs/S) in his blitz packages...I think we're going to see a lot more blitzing from Spence and Shazier next year.

 

[element1286]

I've been actually thinking of the other way, transitioning to a 4-3, the linebacker fit really well into that scheme, although they would be a short a pass rushing DE or two.

As for Williams, I don't see a guy who has played MLB for his whole career, including college, can be expected to play OLB, and the subsequent pass rushing responsibility that come with it.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I've been actually thinking of the other way, transitioning to a 4-3, the linebacker fit really well into that scheme, although they would be a short a pass rushing DE or two.

As for Williams, I don't see a guy who has played MLB for his whole career, including college, can be expected to play OLB, and the subsequent pass rushing responsibility that come with it.

Element...I've been in thatcamp for the last 2 seasons, but now we're essentially talking about getting rid of Lebeau because he's grounded in the 3-4.

Why it makes sense though.

I've played around with this...it would only take a little tweaking to make the personnel fit.

DE...both Tuitt and Heyward are 3-4 DEs, but they could drop 10-15 lbs and easily play as 4-3 DEs...depth is the concern, but Hemer comes off the PS.

DT...McLendon & McCullers fit that role perfectly...Cam Thomas as the swing guy.

MLB...Timmons, with V. Williams backing him up

OLB, Shazier and Jones...Spence & Moats as backups

Let Worilds/Harrison go.

Keep in mind...4-3 Tampa2 is the DEF Tomlin knows...but...until the HOF retires, it's just a pipe dream.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

From what the announcers said during the Ravens game, Harrison weighed around 280/285 Lbs last year with the Bengals since he was mainly just a run stopper but cut back down to 255 Lbs this year, so that weight may have been from before he got all the way back down to 255.

 

[Ewa PGH Fan]

Element...I've been in thatcamp for the last 2 seasons, but now we're essentially talking about getting rid of Lebeau because he's grounded in the 3-4.

Why it makes sense though.

I've played around with this...it would only take a little tweaking to make the personnel fit.

DE...both Tuitt and Heyward are 3-4 DEs, but they could drop 10-15 lbs and easily play as 4-3 DEs...depth is the concern, but Hemer comes off the PS.

DT...McLendon & McCullers fit that role perfectly...Cam Thomas as the swing guy.

MLB...Timmons, with V. Williams backing him up

OLB, Shazier and Jones...Spence & Moats as backups

Let Worilds/Harrison go.

Keep in mind...4-3 Tampa2 is the DEF Tomlin knows...but...until the HOF retires, it's just a pipe dream.

I agree! Will never happen as long as HOF is DC!!!

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Yea ATL has been sayin that for a few years now. And it makes perfect sense to run a 4-3. The personnel is perfect for it. We just don't have the perfect OLBs for the 3-4 which severely hinders the scheme. And they are still grooming at NT. McLendon stepped up big this year, so hopefully he garners more attention (eats up more blocks) next season. McCullers is a work in progress as well. A 4-3 D-line consisting of Heyward, Tuitt, McLendon & McCullers would be nasty.

 

[Psych-Ward]

Yea ATL has been sayin that for a few years now. And it makes perfect sense to run a 4-3. The personnel is perfect for it. We just don't have the perfect OLBs for the 3-4 which severely hinders the scheme. And they are still grooming at NT. McLendon stepped up big this year, so hopefully he garners more attention (eats up more blocks) next season. McCullers is a work in progress as well. A 4-3 D-line consisting of Heyward, Tuitt, McLendon & McCullers would be nasty.

I don't think its so much as not having the right OLB's more as it's not having a nosetackle like Hambone....
No one person could block Hampton, he always tied up two or more. Leaving one of the linebackers free to charge where ever and whenever. Lets face it, our front three on D have not been the same since the departure of Hambone.

 

[Psych-Ward]

To add to this, because of Hambone, we were more effective against the run and we made mediocre linebackers look like all-pros!!!

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

That is very true... One of the main reasons why I think Hampton belongs on the Steelers HOF list. The attention he commanded made anyone and everyone on the defense look good out there lol.

 

[Psych-Ward]

That is very true... One of the main reasons why I think Hampton belongs on the Steelers HOF list. The attention he commanded made anyone and everyone on the defense look good out there lol.

I couldn't agree more Face. He could of went anywhere and made a ton of cash, but stayed with the Steelers until the front office decided there was no longer a need for him.....

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I couldn't agree more Face. He could of went anywhere and made a ton of cash, but stayed with the Steelers until the front office decided there was no longer a need for him.....

Hambone, aka Big Snack... He devoured everything in front of him, be that O-lineman/RBs/QBs or food.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Yea ATL has been sayin that for a few years now. And it makes perfect sense to run a 4-3. The personnel is perfect for it. We just don't have the perfect OLBs for the 3-4 which severely hinders the scheme. And they are still grooming at NT. McLendon stepped up big this year, so hopefully he garners more attention (eats up more blocks) next season.McCullers is a work in progress as well. A 4-3 D-line consisting of Heyward, Tuitt, McLendon & McCullers would be nasty.

That DL would take a LOT of pressure off JJ to be that brute 3-4 OLB that he probably will never be...in nickel you could take JJ off sometimes and replace him with Spence to put 2 speedy LBs out there for coverage and to blitz.

Having Lebeau is both blessing and curse....he's doing an okay job with pcs that don't really fit his scheme, but he's never going to change the scheme to best fit the roster.

The sad part about that is game has really made the prototypical NT with great skills a 2 down player at best...they will have to get lucky in the draft to get one because guys like Poe, and Marcell Dareus will cost too much against the cap.

 

[element1286]

Lebeau being 77 and having a defense that takes years to learn really works against him. Were going to drafting guys in April that aren't expected to make an impact till Lebeau is 80, then what?

He needs to retire so the Steelers can move on. Even if Keith Butler decides to the do the same things as Lebeau defensively, at least there won't be the question each year, "when in Lebeau retiring"

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Lebeau being 77 and having a defense that takes years to learn really works against him. Were going to drafting guys in April that aren't expected to make an impact till Lebeau is 80, then what?

He needs to retire so the Steelers can move on. Even if Keith Butler decides to the do the same things as Lebeau defensively, at least there won't be the question each year, "when in Lebeau retiring"

Retire...Agree 100%! Stubborn old man he is....great coach, but c'mon, live a little!

I think if Lebeau does retire, Tomlin will want to install in own DEF scheme...it's very rare in the NFL for a HC, whether they're from the OFC or DEF side of the ball to run a scheme that is not their own. But Tomlin was a young pup when he got the job, and Lebeau is a HOFer...he wasn't in position to say thanks, but I want my own guy.

 

[element1286]

Was looking at this the other day, the Tomlin coaching tree is really thin, in that he has been saddled with older guys from previous staffs. I don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing, but I thought it was interesting.

Atl, if Lebeau does retire, you don't think Keith Butler will take over?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Was looking at this the other day, the Tomlin coaching tree is really thin, in that he has been saddled with older guys from previous staffs. I don't know if that is a good thing or bad thing, but I thought it was interesting.

Atl, if Lebeau does retire, you don't think Keith Butler will take over?

Tomlin was so young when he got the job, I think it would be difficult to have your own tree if you will...I think many of the Steeler coaches like Butler, Mitchell, from the Cowher regime...he's grown to really like and respect so there's a good chance Butler would take over.

That said...I would think Tomlin would still want his DEF scheme in play

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

The main question is which scheme would they want to employ... If Lebeau retires... If they want to keep the 3-4 then I think Butler gets the job. If they decided 4-3, then not sure what experience Butler has with it. Might look elsewhere.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

LeBeau Done?

If you listen to Marc Sessler of NFL.com..., maybe.

Tomlin has said that he and LeBeau have not spoken about his return for next season...apparently Ed Bouchette has picked up on the somewhat evasive tone Tomlin has displayed compared to past year's about LeBeau retiring.

As we've said in this forum before...at some point you have to say enough is enough if you're LeBeau...77, it makes sense to be a consultant if you don't want to just go sit down.