Let's play GM

[thecrow124]

Just for fun, let's all see what kind of GM we would make. Take a look around baseball and look where the Pirates are. Try to decide what direction you would take the team. Do you decide we are not really in the playoff picture and trade away your veterans that won't be returning or do you try to make a run at the playoffs this year. Who do you target as a return in a trade?

This is not something to be taken to seriously, I just want to see what others think. I have some opinions, but I will withhold them until I am on a computer and can type faster. Can't wait to see what some of you are thinking.

 

[element1286]

Target salary dump pitchers, mid level guys, or reclamation projects that would cost little beside cash, a la Wandy or AJ. Although I don't have list of names that would fit into this group.

Target a guy who would cost some legit prospects but would be around for a while, ie Samarjida. Or a guy who you think you could use to his strengths better than his current team, ie Porcello/Masterson.

 

[Darkstone42]

If we want to contend this year, we need an ace. I see no reason to hold onto veterans who are not part of the future of this team who could fetch us something of value in a trade (Russell Martin excluded, as I think he is important for the development of our young pitchers) unless we actually do target an ace-type pitcher.

 

[sychmd]

i would dump people who aren't going to be here in 2016.
martin, grilli, liriano, barmes, gomez, tabata, snider.
can also throw in a couple young OF prospects other than meadows and bell.

on the fence about morton and volquez. save them for 1-2 years till the younger guys or better FA evolve.
also unsure about walker as this year is surprising. see him as a DH in the AL as his real fit.
gabby trade this year, ike trade next year if he doesn't take off.

next year we can shoot for a WC, but look at 16 or 17 as the first year we can make a real deep playoff/WS run.


obviously that is only possible if
SP - cole, taillon, FA, kingham, pimentel, glasnow, morton, locke, sadler, cumpton, FA/trade
OF - cutch, polanco, marte
RP - melancon, watson, hughes, wilson
MIF - hanson, mercer, FA/trade
CIF - alvarez(1B) or bell, FA/trade for 3B
C - FA/trade with reese as the backup after we trade tony sanchez in 1-2 years.
Bench - don't mind harrison, gabby, lambo, rojas, as bench with tony sanchez/mcguire depending on year but they can go to get something good except tony and mcguire because we are so thin at C.

so we need
SP, C, 3B as big time trade targets.
i don't follow other teams enough, but need players that are under control and can contribute between 2016 and 2021.

 

[Illinest]

The window is closing.

Walker and Alvarez have less incentive to sign long-term deals with every passing year, and since they haven't signed any deals you can assume that they won't sign one. Neither one will be here beyond next season.
Meanwhile there are no compelling alternatives to replace them. There are no 3B in the system and Hanson is the only middle-infielder who is semi-close to the majors.
Russell Martin is moving on and we can't replace his performance with anyone in the system until (possibly) Reese Mcguire is ready. In the meantime it's likely to be a weak defender (Tony Sanchez) or a weak hitter (Stewart, etc...)
We still don't have a decent SS. Perhaps the second rounder that they just drafted will eventually turn out to be okay. In the meantime it's JaCoby Jones or bust.

The Starting Pitching is very scary. Not in a good way. Heredia appears to be on his way to being a total waste of money. Cole could be done for good, or maybe he'll just never turn into an ace. Taillon may not ever pan out. Kingham is proving that he's a second-tier talent compared to the other guys and Glasnow still has major walk problems.

We're not drafting in the top 5 anymore and even the picks that we do make are seemingly motivated by saving pennies nowadays. The farm system will lose steam quickly.

In the meantime the best we could hope for is a great outfield, a patchwork rotation and the same sort of weak supporting cast that we've been seeing since forever ago.


There's no amount of frugal talent acquisition that can overcome the effects of an ownership group that handicaps itself as much as the Nuttings handicap this team. In any event it is clear that ownership is more concerned about maintaining profit margins than they are about being competitive.

And let's not forget that it's the fans who pay the bills. The roster isn't paid by Bob Nutting out of his personal fortune. We fans invest enough money into the team every year that we can should be able to justify a payroll exceeding 100 million. Then that thief Nutting pockets 20 million of it every year.


Given the Nuttings' larceny - our only other hope is to start blowing it up. Trade Walker now. Trade Liriano and Martin too. But we MUST get good players back. No more quantity trades like we did when we traded Bay.

 

[ramburgh]

Here are the definite sellers: Cubs, Mets, Phillies, Padres, D-Backs, Astros, Rays. There is a good chance the following SP get traded this summer: Lee, Hamels, Burnett, Arroyo, Samardzija, Jackson, Hammel, Wood, Price

The Pirates could work out a deal for Price or Samardzija if they send a package similar to Bell, Barnes/Jones, Heredia/Holmes. I don't think other teams could give up that kind of package.

As far as payroll for next year, there should be funds available to pay Price or Samardzija and then some. Coming off the books are Liriano ($8M), Rodriguez ($7.5M), Martin ($8.5M), Volquez ($5M) and Grilli ($4M) which will total about $33M. Plus one of Snider/Tabata and Davis/Sanchez will be gone which could push the total this group is getting paid to close to $40M.

Granted Walker and Alvarez will get raises which will gobble up about $10M (doubling their salaries from this year and putting both of them around $10M next year) plus about $7M more for the increases McCutchen and Morton's contract calls for next year.

That still leaves about $20M if the Pirates spend the same amount next year plus the $12M that Burnett didn't get and the Pirates should have about $30M available next year if they don't raise their payroll.

Even if the available funds is slightly less, it is still enough to pay Price or Samardzija plus possibly bring back Martin or add another decent SP.

The next 1.5 years could be the window with Walker and Alvarez still around. They need to make a bold move or two. There are only 3 starting outfield slots and those are tied up for the next 4.5+ years with McCutchen, Marte and Polanco.

 

[sychmd]

Price or smadrdzj would be great if we can get them for 4+yrs. obviously price>>>>>smard in reliability and track record.

How to get a C. would rather get a young one that we can control and not overpay in the FA market.

We then sell off some of the other soon to be FA to get a middle IF stud as that would be our last main concern unless mercer really shows last year is his norm (he could be SS or replace walker at 2B with hanson a super sub when harrison gone).

mercer, davis, and pedro are the keys to how much wheeling and dealing we have to do.
if they come around and are good average players.
we have the OF as our main weapons and RP is great.
getting our young SP and one big FA to be the #1b with cole would set us up well.

 

[steelparrot]

1) Extend Andrew McCutchen 4-5 years
2) Extend Russel Martin 3 yrs


The rest depends on the standings in one month.

 

[sychmd]

yes to cutch
no to martin. maybe one year for martin, which he wouldn't really do.

 

[thecrow124]

I guess I have waited long enough to comment in my own thread. My main reason for waiting is that just about daily I change my mind. Even now as I type this I am not sure I will feel the same way tomorrow.

Currently, we sit 3.5 games out of the wildcard, with 4 teams ahead of us. We are not out of the race by any stretch, however, I do not believe that we have a team that can compete in the playoffs. I say this because we have 6 guys in the bullpen that are "late inning guys" and 3 of them are struggling badly.

That being said, I also do not believe that we need to blow this team up. I think with our 3 outfielders we will be able to compete in most games. While I would like to say that everyone on the roster outside of those 3, Walker, Cole, and Morton are fair game, that really only leaves us with Russell Martin as a trade chip. We have some good relievers, but I think the days of getting good prospects for relievers have passed.

So for the simple fact that we don't have a roster that will net us a lot in return, I would probably play it out with the people we have on the roster. Try to win as many games as possible, because in the end, that should always be the goal. I don't think we need to go out and try to bring in Price or Samardzija, but I also don't think we move a bunch of pieces, unless we get a deal that is just too hard to pass up.

One last thing, has anyone else seen enough of Pedro yet? I told you guys he should have been moved this offseason. He has reverted to being a butcher at third again, and he can't hit anymore. Now he can't throw either, so we are just in for a treat over the next 2 years. My one hope is that Hurdle benches him in favor of Harrison once Walker comes back, just so we can hear Scott Boras cry about the Pirates trying to suppress Fat Pete's future arbitration earnings. Just something to keep me interested as we stumble through July and August.

 

[sychmd]

too bad we can't combine pedro's fielding(not throwing - 16 errors, just fielding- 1 error) and power with
ike's patience and eye and
gaby's overall demeanor and approach to hitting against LHP
maybe we would have a decent 1B.

 

[thedddd]

Yeah the sell high on Pedro is all but over. Low OBP/avg. poor defense power hitters don't have have much of a market.

Even though they are still close to the playoffs I don't see how this team can make it back to the playoffs so come closer to the deadline they should sell off Volquez, Liriano, Martin and Pedro,Ike and/or Gabby.

Unfortunately there isn't any value in Tabata, Snider or the bullpen that is struggling so that is all staying.

Only if Cumpton and Worley could both stay when Cole comes back and the rotation going forward would be: Cole, Morton, Liriano, Cumpton and Worley and deal Volquez now while his still has value.

 

[element1286]

Not sure why we need to sell anyone right now. Wouldn't sign Pedro to a long extension, but don't mind having him through his arb years.

And would like to see if they could sign Martin for 2 more years plus and option year.

 

[ramburgh]

position players look solid with Mercer finding his bat and harrison's ability to play 4 positions. Not sure where the Pirates could use an obtainable upgrade in the field. I haven't been impressed with Stewart so maybe bring up Sanchez as the back-up and let Stewart go.

they really need to make one major move for a top starting pitcher. They appear to have depth with Cumpton, Locke and Worley. They need to add a solid number one pitcher (Price, Lee, Samardzija) to put in front of Cole, Liriano, Morton and Volquez. If any of those 4 falter or get injured then the Cumpton, Locke, Worley trio is ready. Liriano, Morton and Volquez all seem to be hot and cold this year.

 

[Darkstone42]

Not sure why we need to sell anyone right now. Wouldn't sign Pedro to a long extension, but don't mind having him through his arb years.

And would like to see if they could sign Martin for 2 more years plus and option year.

Agreed. Our offense is good enough to push for a playoff spot on its own, especially when the power takes off. We have a lot of guys who can hit the ball over the fence and in the gaps who haven't really hit that stride yet, and we've been really good at getting on base as a team this year. Once the doubles start to pile up, that rule total is going to jump. With our power potential, being third in the Majors in OBP should not be leaving us in the middle of the pack in terms of runs scored.

And Martin is going to be important to the development of our young pitchers, I think. I'd like him to handle Kingham and Taillon when they come up, at the least, the way he handled Cole. I think Sanchez will be a Major League starting catcher some day, and he could be a good one, but Martin is just really good, and he'd be a tough loss to take.

I would actually look to acquire a #2 type pitcher who we could sign as well. We don't have to go after an ace, because I think there's some decent talent on our staff, but adding another guy to slot in behind Cole would definitely help, both in terms of depth and raw performance. Volquez is looking less and less like a fluke with every strong start, Morton's not going to set the world on fire, but we'll be in more of his starts than we're not, Cole is obviously very good, Liriano could turn it on (or not, of course), and Locke, Cumpton, and Worley are all competent enough to take starts when one of those guys can't, but I would rather have another top starter who can win us games on his own every now and then while also being consistently strong every outing to push those guys down a spot.

I will say of Locke, though, last year his collapse was largely because of command issues (which kind of suggested he would eventually regress hard even when he was pitching well), and those seem to have disappeared this season. His command was always well-regarded coming up through the system, so maybe he's found himself and can be a solid Major League pitcher now. I still want that new #2 so Locke can just replace Liriano, for example, if he never finds his command, but I think he's going to be a valid option going forward.

 

[Darkstone42]

position players look solid with Mercer finding his bat and harrison's ability to play 4 positions. Not sure where the Pirates could use an obtainable upgrade in the field. I haven't been impressed with Stewart so maybe bring up Sanchez as the back-up and let Stewart go.

they really need to make one major move for a top starting pitcher. They appear to have depth with Cumpton, Locke and Worley. They need to add a solid number one pitcher (Price, Lee, Samardzija) to put in front of Cole, Liriano, Morton and Volquez. If any of those 4 falter or get injured then the Cumpton, Locke, Worley trio is ready. Liriano, Morton and Volquez all seem to be hot and cold this year.

Stewart's been better than you might think, and I still trust him more than Sanchez defensively, which is what really matters behind the plate, especially with the depth of our lineup otherwise.

Is Lee still hurt, though? I think he would be my primary target. If we take on his salary, I think he could be the cheapest in terms of prospects, but we can't trade for him if he's still injured, and I don't know how bad his injury was.

 

[sychmd]

Stewart has been better than expected, as i was expecting a 200 ave with minimal run production, no power, and hitting 8th or 9th. D has been OK and better than sanchez.

I hear you about going after a 2 and not a 1 in the rotation.
a couple hesitations.
1. i am not sold on cole being a real #1 yet, still way too hittable.
2. cole still young to be the ace.
3. getting a #2 means that person doesn't have the consistency of an ace, but you are paying a chunk. if we pay, might as well go a little extra an get the reliability and consistency we need for the investment. seems like the #2's (not counting those aces that are on a team with another ace) are just a slight deviation from a #4. we have several #4's already and don't need an overpaid one.

if we are going after an ace, lets really go. if cole turns out to be an ace, great, we will have 2.
right now, cumpton, locke, volquez, and worley are pitching at a low 3 to 4 level.
if cole, morton, and liriano can produce a 1 and 2 from the 3 of them, that would be awesome with kingham and taillon coming in next year and stolmy being a wildcard.
next year: smardzja, cole, morton, worley, locke with cumpton, kingham, taillon in the wings.
not getting an ace means we are relying on our depth and thinking about retaining volquez or liriano if he picks it up, or getting another reclamation project.

 

[ramburgh]

Good thing the Pirates SP has been strong because the available SP is moving early and quickly. Samardjiza, Hammel and McCarthy have all been traded. The good news is the Cubs should be an easier win this year, but they might be putting something together for the future.

Really hard to determine where the Pirates might add a piece. Unless they go big and get a top SP there really isn't a glaring hole and the team could get red hot if Davis and Alvarez find their power strokes.

 

[ramburgh]

I wonder what it would take to pry Tulowitzki and Morneau from the Rockies? The Rockies aren't contenders so there is a chance that both will be dealt this summer. I believe there is a real chance that the Pirates make a big splash this summer.

Polanco, Marte, McCutchen, Tulowitzki, Morneau, Walker, Alvarez/Harrison, Martin.

I like the idea of acquiring Tulo as opposed to other big names because he is under control through 2020 with about $20M/year owed. That is a big number, but he is a known commodity that could push this group over the top. Also, Morneau has an affordable deal through next year.

The package would have be to large - Bell, Meadows/McGuire and Kingham/Heredia. Maybe even Mercer and another major league ready player included?

 

[Darkstone42]

I wonder what it would take to pry Tulowitzki and Morneau from the Rockies? The Rockies aren't contenders so there is a chance that both will be dealt this summer. I believe there is a real chance that the Pirates make a big splash this summer.

Polanco, Marte, McCutchen, Tulowitzki, Morneau, Walker, Alvarez/Harrison, Martin.

I like the idea of acquiring Tulo as opposed to other big names because he is under control through 2020 with about $20M/year owed. That is a big number, but he is a known commodity that could push this group over the top. Also, Morneau has an affordable deal through next year.

The package would have be to large - Bell, Meadows/McGuire and Kingham/Heredia. Maybe even Mercer and another major league ready player included?

Just Tulo would probably cost most of our farm system. That's not a player a team gives up easily, even if they're not contending.