Let's give it up to the Mid Majors!

[NDHoosier101]

For the record, when I mentioned Creighton, I was mainly poking fun at certain elitists on this site who would no doubt consider Creighton a mid major as they lack the power conference pedigree that teams like Boston College or South Carolina have.

If that's what you got out of that thread you are severely lost.

I have no ill will towards any midmajor and am quite amused to be the inspiration behind this thread!

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

If that's what you got out of that thread you are severely lost.

What I got out of that thread is that you are utterly incapable of articulating whatever idea it is rattling around your head, other than some vague hate speech about mid majors, and people talking about them.

I have no ill will towards any midmajor and am quite amused to be the inspiration behind this thread!

If you didn't have any ill will towards mid majors, why did you start a thread dedicated to pissing and moaning about how unfair it is that some of them are ranked high with weaker schedules?

You weren't complaining about teams with weak schedules being ranked high. You were complaining about Mid Majors being ranked high. You know how I know that? Because you said: "Voting Midmajors into the top 10 is a joke!"

You can try and back-peddle all you want, but that's what you said.

 

[Runeman]

I think I have to agree w/Hockey. You can't just look at the conf. and say: it's bad, so they're still a mid-major.. look at the SEC, it's not much better. You have one good team, one middle of the road team and a bunch of low-average to bad teams. But it's still a major conf.

Let's be honest; Ohio State would be a middle of the road SEC team as they would win at home, except Kentucky and Florida and lose to Missouri, LSU Tennessee, Auburn, Vandy, Georgia, Arkansas and Alabama away as all those teams protect their home court as does Ohio State....unless they are playing the mighty Penn State.... That makes Ohio State part of the low-average to bad group.

 

[gpm1976]

Let's be honest; Ohio State would be a middle of the road SEC team as they would win at home, except Kentucky and Florida and lose to Missouri, LSU Tennessee, Auburn, Vandy, Georgia, Arkansas and Alabama away as all those teams protect their home court as does Ohio State....unless they are playing the mighty Penn State.... That makes Ohio State part of the low-average to bad group.

That's not exactly news. OSU and UK are a lot alike. Both seem to have a lot going for them, but can't find consistent shooting. I wouldn't really fear UF for that matter. They're good, but just like cuse, nearly every team you play takes you right down to the last minute.

 

[Cincyfan78]

yeah but if you are going to point to the prolonged lack of success. Talking about MU and Gtown being down this year doesn't work either since they have prolonged success. A long with Nova and really Xavier.

So you got 4 and 4. Then the middle teams are Butler and Creighton who have been successful lately but can they stay?

Point is what I was getting at...this conference is almost always going to be a 5 bid league(this year is going to be a tight squeeze due to rare circumstances) and playing a true round robin you are only playing 4 games against truly bad teams(butler and DePaul).

In other leagues where the schedules are unbalanced you could run into missing a lot of key teams twice. Big 12 is a gauntlet this year but that is rare.

Just saying that with this talk of Big East not being elite and in a down year...yet they are the 4th highest rated conference. I think that bodes for the conferences future. And down the line(not a fan right now cuz I love the round robin schedule) they have the power to make it even deeper if two teams emerge from other conferences.

I didn't discount MU or G-town. Look at my last paragraph. The fact is, they lost a lot of their top tier teams: Louisville, Cincinnati, Pitt, 'Cuse, and replaced them with 3 teams from Mid-Major conferences. That left the usually good MU, G-town, and 'Nova to carry the league for at least a year or two until the other teams can establish a more solid foundation.

You don't know what you are getting out of XU, Creighton, or Butler in 2-3 years. None of them have ever been the smaller fish in the bigger pond. You simply don't know what they are going to do, but Butler has already tanked it this year, and lost Stevens. Can they rebound? Creighton did very well in their last league, and so did Xavier, but they will no longer be the big school feeding on the little schools. XU and Butler both have found that out this year, and Creighton will be losing, potentially, the best player in College these past two years. It's fair to say we have to give all the schools time to see how they will do. Butler could bounce back, and Creighton could fall flat on its face. We simply don't know.

Add that into the usual dregs of the league, and it's a legit question to wonder where this league will be in 3-4 years. All I'm saying is...give it time. No one can realistically say anything about what kind of competition the league will be bringing year in and year out until the new teams prove they can handle the switch to a bigger league (or fail).

 

[tabascojet]

the big east is now a mid major....msg will be half empty in years to come.

 

[Cincyfan78]

the big east is now a mid major....msg will be half empty in years to come.

I'm not ready to say that. Too soon.

But for it to continue to be looked at as a Major conference, MU/'Nova/G-town have to continue to carry the torch, and at least one, if not two, of the new schools has to show it can have sustained success in a bigger conference where they are no longer the top team year in/out AND recruit against those other teams.

It would help also, if one of the dregs of the league would finally find some footing and actually start competing. SJU looked like it was going to be on its way with Lavin, but they simply haven't done what's been expected.

 

[gpm1976]

the big east is now a mid major....msg will be half empty in years to come.

All this realignment pisses me off!! There was nothing wrong w/how things were set up. This whole thing is only about money... and the drive for money continues to ruin sports.

 

[Runeman]

That's not exactly news. OSU and UK are a lot alike. Both seem to have a lot going for them, but can't find consistent shooting. I wouldn't really fear UF for that matter. They're good, but just like cuse, nearly every team you play takes you right down to the last minute.

Really don't think Ohio State hangs with Kentucky...and you are not correct regarding Florida beating everyone close....it's usually close away and significant at home. Just how many teams have beaten all their away conference opponents? As I stated, most of those teams don't give it up easy at home; that's probably a given in any league. I see no difference between the Big10 and the SEC. IMO, MSU is the best in the Big10 and Florida is the best in the SEC; everyone else defends their home court. Still think the ACC is the strongest conference and all I have to support that is my opinion of watching the individual players and teams play. IMO, Syracuse, Duke, NC, and Virginia beats everyone in the Big10 and SEC away except MSU and Florida and on a neutral court all four of those teams can beat anybody. Same for Kansas, Louisville, Cincinnati, and maybe Arizona; still not sure they recovered from Ashley's injury. The entire point of this post is about your comment regarding the "rest of the SEC being a bunch of "low average to bad". We seem to hear that a lot from the Big10 homers and their teams continue to play uninspiring ball...my opinion. Last night's IU and Wisconsin was an example. An IU team that has not done well exposed something about Wisconsin I have not seen...cover Dekker and push Kaminski away from the basket and that team struggles. I have a feeling that might be the game plan for Wisconsin from now on. Iowa losing to Minnesota? Yikes!

Point is: we don't really know who's good as I posted earlier all the OOC games are early in the year when coaches are more focused on developing a team that is ready to play in their conference and the NCAA. We don't really know it Creighton and Wichita St are great teams....that's what this thread is about and IMO, they are properly ranked based on their body of work and it all gets sorted out next month.

My feeling is teams should try to get a 1 or 2 seed and beyond that make sure your team in healthy and rested. That means the individual conference championship takes a back for those teams that have a lock on those seeds.

 

[Cincyfan78]

All this realignment pisses me off!! There was nothing wrong w/how things were set up. This whole thing is only about money... and the drive for money continues to ruin sports.

In this case, I can understand why this happened.

The non-football schools new that if they waited around, eventually they would be left with inferior basketball schools, and the BE would be dragged down even further.

They attracted 3 high profile schools in hopes to combat that, and the football schools all left, or were kicked out.

Had the BE waited around, eventually it would be MU/G-town/Nova and a bunch of bottom tier mid-majors. At least this way they got some programs with momentum.

Now, what is left to be seen is how these new schools adapt to being in a bigger conference where other teams can out-recruit them, and beat them, as well as the bottom of the league being better (at least marginally) than the rest of the dregs of the Mid-Major leagues they came from.

 

[gpm1976]

In this case, I can understand why this happened.

The non-football schools new that if they waited around, eventually they would be left with inferior basketball schools, and the BE would be dragged down even further.

They attracted 3 high profile schools in hopes to combat that, and the football schools all left, or were kicked out.

Had the BE waited around, eventually it would be MU/G-town/Nova and a bunch of bottom tier mid-majors. At least this way they got some programs with momentum.

Now, what is left to be seen is how these new schools adapt to being in a bigger conference where other teams can out-recruit them, and beat them, as well as the bottom of the league being better (at least marginally) than the rest of the dregs of the Mid-Major leagues they came from.

Good point. It was a VERY unbalanced conf. in that respect... and unfortunately, football brings in all the money.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Good point. It was a VERY unbalanced conf. in that respect... and unfortunately, football brings in all the money.

Exactly. Since they couldn't attract other big name schools from power conferences (They would all have football teams) they went for the best of the Mid-Majors that didn't have football teams.

They got, arguably, 3 of the top tier Mid-Major programs over the past 5-8 years. XU has done very well, as has Butler, and Creighton. I think the BE did a great job of doing what it had to do. It was unfortunate, but it was about self-preservation. It had to be done, or they wouldn't have had XU/Creigton/Butler as they could have been in other conferences.

The only issue I have now, is that we can't truly discern what kind of a conference the BE will be when it's all settled in 3+ years. Can XU continue to recruit against MU/Nova/G-town? Can Butler survive without Stevens? How will Creighton do when McDermott is gone? All valid questions. Also, how will these former "big fish" from a small pond respond to being in a bigger pond with bigger fish?

Only time will tell.

 

[tabascojet]

if only the big east could add cincy, umass, st louis, uconn...

 

[gpm1976]

Really don't think Ohio State hangs with Kentucky...and you are not correct regarding Florida beating everyone close....it's usually close away and significant at home. Just how many teams have beaten all their away conference opponents? As I stated, most of those teams don't give it up easy at home; that's probably a given in any league. I see no difference between the Big10 and the SEC. IMO, MSU is the best in the Big10 and Florida is the best in the SEC; everyone else defends their home court. Still think the ACC is the strongest conference and all I have to support that is my opinion of watching the individual players and teams play. IMO, Syracuse, Duke, NC, and Virginia beats everyone in the Big10 and SEC away except MSU and Florida and on a neutral court all four of those teams can beat anybody. Same for Kansas, Louisville, Cincinnati, and maybe Arizona; still not sure they recovered from Ashley's injury. The entire point of this post is about your comment regarding the "rest of the SEC being a bunch of "low average to bad". We seem to hear that a lot from the Big10 homers and their teams continue to play uninspiring ball...my opinion. Last night's IU and Wisconsin was an example. An IU team that has not done well exposed something about Wisconsin I have not seen...cover Dekker and push Kaminski away from the basket and that team struggles. I have a feeling that might be the game plan for Wisconsin from now on. Iowa losing to Minnesota? Yikes!

Point is: we don't really know who's good as I posted earlier all the OOC games are early in the year when coaches are more focused on developing a team that is ready to play in their conference and the NCAA. We don't really know it Creighton and Wichita St are great teams....that's what this thread is about and IMO, they are properly ranked based on their body of work and it all gets sorted out next month.

My feeling is teams should try to get a 1 or 2 seed and beyond that make sure your team in healthy and rested. That means the individual conference championship takes a back for those teams that have a lock on those seeds.

the only two meetings for UF and UK w/the big 10 resulted in losses for you guys. So what makes you think your top teams would do so well against B10? For that matter, UK only has one good OOC win and I find it to be questionable considering louisville finally got a win over a ranked team. I also didn't say OSU was better than UK... just similar problems. But I wouldn't be afraid to play them either.

As for the comment on the rest of your conf... I'm not necessarily saying they're all bad. Just lumping them together because they're on that 3rd level. But I guess I wouldn't exactly call them powerhouses either.

 

[Runeman]

the only two meetings for UF and UK w/the big 10 resulted in losses for you guys. So what makes you think your top teams would do so well against B10? For that matter, UK only has one good OOC win and I find it to be questionable considering louisville finally got a win over a ranked team. I also didn't say OSU was better than UK... just similar problems. But I wouldn't be afraid to play them either.

As for the comment on the rest of your conf... I'm not necessarily saying they're all bad. Just lumping them together because they're on that 3rd level. But I guess I wouldn't exactly call them powerhouses either.

As I stated, OOC games at the beginning of the year are meaningless. As I stated Tennessee beat Virginia by 35 points in December. Don't see that happening now. Wisconsin beat Florida when 2 starters were being punished by Billy D. Had Billy wanted to win that game, they both would have played and Florida would have won the game. Billy D. got his message across and the tail no longer wags the dog.....never did. Michigan beat Kentucky by a small amount when Kentucky had 4 freshmen at the beginning of the year. Don't see that happening next month either.

If you insist on calling the rest of the SEC 3rd level, then you would agree that beyond Michigan State and Michigan, the rest of the Big10 is 3rd level as well.....and we will agree none of them are powerhouses as well.

 

[gpm1976]

As I stated, OOC games at the beginning of the year are meaningless. As I stated Tennessee beat Virginia by 35 points in December. Don't see that happening now. Wisconsin beat Florida when 2 starters were being punished by Billy D. Had Billy wanted to win that game, they both would have played and Florida would have won the game. Billy D. got his message across and the tail no longer wags the dog.....never did. Michigan beat Kentucky by a small amount when Kentucky had 4 freshmen at the beginning of the year. Don't see that happening next month either.

If you insist on calling the rest of the SEC 3rd level, then you would agree that beyond Michigan State and Michigan, the rest of the Big10 is 3rd level as well.....and we will agree none of them are powerhouses as well.

Yeah, ok..

We can sit here and play this game, but it's stupid. I don't really care how you view your conf. My point was that there was UF, followed by UK, then a pretty sizable gap between the UK and the teams below. You can Missouri your next best team, but they have a losing record in conf.

 

[tabascojet]

ill give you wisc and osu may be slightly better than sec 2nd tier. but iowa,minn and below is the same caliber as georgia, ole miss, lsu and below. no difference even if you want to homer it up for your league.

 

[gpm1976]

ill give you wisc and osu may be slightly better than sec 2nd tier. but iowa,minn and below is the same caliber as georgia, ole miss, lsu and below. no difference even if you want to homer it up for your league.

I don't know how you break up our conf. It's been a weird year. If I had to toss OSU into the SEC, I'd say they're right below UK.. but it's hard to say. You can also say all you want about other teams in your conf being just as good, but as of right now the SEC has two bids... two VERY strong bids, but two none the less. I'm not sure what else you can say..


Let me add one more thing. When I say tier 2, I don't mean they're a second rate team. I don't think anyone can argue that UK is not playing the type of ball that UF is right now. Therefore, I can't put them on the same "tier/level". That's all.. no disrespect intended. I would call OSU a lower level team compared to the elite right now.

 

[ericd7633]

As I stated, OOC games at the beginning of the year are meaningless. As I stated Tennessee beat Virginia by 35 points in December. Don't see that happening now. Wisconsin beat Florida when 2 starters were being punished by Billy D. Had Billy wanted to win that game, they both would have played and Florida would have won the game. Billy D. got his message across and the tail no longer wags the dog.....never did. Michigan beat Kentucky by a small amount when Kentucky had 4 freshmen at the beginning of the year. Don't see that happening next month either.

If you insist on calling the rest of the SEC 3rd level, then you would agree that beyond Michigan State and Michigan, the rest of the Big10 is 3rd level as well.....and we will agree none of them are powerhouses as well.

So you're telling me Wisconsin who's a 2 seed at the moment is comparable to Tennessee/Missouri who both MIGHT sneak into the NCAA Tournament? Minnesota who's 7th in the B1G is comparable to Tennessee/Missouri. The SEC is putrid this year.

 

[ericd7633]

ill give you wisc and osu may be slightly better than sec 2nd tier. but iowa,minn and below is the same caliber as georgia, ole miss, lsu and below. no difference even if you want to homer it up for your league.

Again comparing Iowa who is safely in the tournament in the 6/7 seed range to a bunch of NIT teams is laughable.