Let's give it up to the Mid Majors!

[TrollyMcTroller]

You know, I was just looking at the polls, and I couldn't help but think what great strides the Mid Majors have made over the last few years.

Multiple Final Four appearances... heck, I can't even remember the last Final Four that didn't have a mid major fighting the good fight.

But this year in particular... WSU following up their Final Four run with a thus-far undefeated season. Climbing all the way to #2 in the polls. And some other note-worthy teams right behind them, like Creighton and St. Louis.

That's 75 wins so far just for those 3 mid majors alone. Then you have other great teams like SDSU and SMU making waves.

This just might be the year of the Mid Majors.

So let's give it up to the little guys! Three cheers for the mid majors!

 

[jonvi]

Good Luck to em trolly. Three cheers.

WSU and Creighton are on my radar. You mentioned St. Louis...the A10 played some ball this year and somehow St. Louis is in charge. I'm hoping the committee reaches after teams like UMass too.

From the MWC, you mentioned UNLV. I like NM.

There are some teams out there to consider. My wild guess is go with Witchata State, Creighton next. then St. Louis.

But the debate of a major overlooking a midmajor should have ended when WSU and FGC ran through the tournament last year.

 

[gpm1976]

Good Luck to em trolly. Three cheers.

WSU and Creighton are on my radar. You mentioned St. Louis...the A10 played some ball this year and somehow St. Louis is in charge. I'm hoping the committee reaches after teams like UMass too.

From the MWC, you mentioned UNLV. I like NM.

There are some teams out there to consider. My wild guess is go with Witchata State, Creighton next. then St. Louis.

But the debate of a major overlooking a midmajor should have ended when WSU and FGC ran through the tournament last year.

I agree the shockers were no fun in the tourney last year.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Creighton is not a mid major

 

[dcZONAfan]

Creighton is not a mid major

but they are...they are the same team as last year, when they were a mid major. They need a couple years in the "Big" East before my perception of them changes (from a recruiting standpoint, since the big east is done being an elite basketball conference)

 

[dcZONAfan]

Good Luck to em trolly. Three cheers.

WSU and Creighton are on my radar. You mentioned St. Louis...the A10 played some ball this year and somehow St. Louis is in charge. I'm hoping the committee reaches after teams like UMass too.

From the MWC, you mentioned UNLV. I like NM.

There are some teams out there to consider. My wild guess is go with Witchata State, Creighton next. then St. Louis.

But the debate of a major overlooking a midmajor should have ended when WSU and FGC ran through the tournament last year.

Saint Louis will get a 3 or 4 seed, just like last year (what did they have a 4 or 5?), and will win at most one game IMO. I watched the game against GMU and wasn't at all impressed by them, at least in the "making a run past the sweet 16" sense.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

but they are...they are the same team as last year, when they were a mid major. They need a couple years in the "Big" East before my perception of them changes (from a recruiting standpoint, since the big east is done being an elite basketball conference)

Yeah but they are loaded team with a 1st team all American.

And while the BE isn't what it was it's still no where near mid major and will always be top 5 RPI and probably rarely ever outside the top 4 even.

Butler is the only team in that conference to worry and maybe DePaul since they can never get their shit together. Creighton will be bad next year but that's to be expected.

When 70% of your teams are recruiting well, you cannot be a mid major. That is elite. They are not the cream of the crop like the last few years when the league was bigger and just as deep but its still among the best.

 

[dcZONAfan]

Yeah but they are loaded team with a 1st team all American.

And while the BE isn't what it was it's still no where near mid major and will always be top 5 RPI and probably rarely ever outside the top 4 even.

Butler is the only team in that conference to worry and maybe DePaul since they can never get their shit together. Creighton will be bad next year but that's to be expected.

When 70% of your teams are recruiting well, you cannot be a mid major. That is elite. They are not the cream of the crop like the last few years when the league was bigger and just as deep but its still among the best.

agree to disagree about those two points. This year ESPECIALLY teams like Seton Hall, Marquette, Georgetown...all worse than normal. St John and Xavier, nothing more than decent. Providence, Creighton, and 'Nova are the only teams better than expected. The conference is bad, man. Your Marquette team is 8-6 in conference....that's how bad it is

 

[mr.hockey4242]

agree to disagree about those two points. This year ESPECIALLY teams like Seton Hall, Marquette, Georgetown...all worse than normal. St John and Xavier, nothing more than decent. Providence, Creighton, and 'Nova are the only teams better than expected. The conference is bad, man. Your Marquette team is 8-6 in conference....that's how bad it is

No and that's what makes it tough. 7/10 teams still have a chance at a tourney bid(realistically 5 will go but that is still 50%) you are play 12/18 league games against teams that are in contention for the tourney. There is no unbalanced schedule. You have to face them all twice.

The conference is 4th in RPI now in a DOWN year. Marquette may miss the tourney for the first time in 8 years. EIGHT. Georgetown rarely misses the tourney. The 3 headliners(gtown, MU and Nova) all recruit excellently. SHU as a great class coming in with a team that is actually solid. Xavier has always been able to recruit now here? Only going to get better. And providence is on the up and up. ALL those teams have good classes coming in next year. Now DePaul if they can somehow lure Howland with the hot bed they live in will be relevnt too. O yeah, I forgot SJU they need Lavins recruiting and anyone else's coaching and they are perennial top 15.

And being 8-6 for MU doesn't show anything about the conference. Out of conference they lost 1 game on their home floor. By 2 to ASU(without Mayo) I think you know that isn't anything to hang on. To the wire in basically home environments vs SDSU and UNM(SDSU result of 2 horrific calls and our best player threw up on the court) and at the KOHL without Mayo it was a 3 pt game with 1 min left.

Turning around and beating similar teams on their home court in conference to get to 8-6 doesn't show anything.

For once we ain't very good, but that doesn't support the lack of your point calling Creighton mid major or the conference not elite. Unless you want to just call the B1G elite then I'm fine. Since they are the only year in and year out mainstays.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

O yeah and DePaul beat Northwestern at Northwestern.

 

[gpm1976]

agree to disagree about those two points. This year ESPECIALLY teams like Seton Hall, Marquette, Georgetown...all worse than normal. St John and Xavier, nothing more than decent. Providence, Creighton, and 'Nova are the only teams better than expected. The conference is bad, man. Your Marquette team is 8-6 in conference....that's how bad it is

I think I have to agree w/Hockey. You can't just look at the conf. and say: it's bad, so they're still a mid-major.. look at the SEC, it's not much better. You have one good team, one middle of the road team and a bunch of low-average to bad teams. But it's still a major conf.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

For the record, when I mentioned Creighton, I was mainly poking fun at certain elitists on this site who would no doubt consider Creighton a mid major as they lack the power conference pedigree that teams like Boston College or South Carolina have.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Saint Louis will get a 3 or 4 seed, just like last year (what did they have a 4 or 5?), and will win at most one game IMO. I watched the game against GMU and wasn't at all impressed by them, at least in the "making a run past the sweet 16" sense.

I guess they don't pass the eye test! I kid, I kid!

agree to disagree about those two points. This year ESPECIALLY teams like Seton Hall, Marquette, Georgetown...all worse than normal. St John and Xavier, nothing more than decent. Providence, Creighton, and 'Nova are the only teams better than expected. The conference is bad, man. Your Marquette team is 8-6 in conference....that's how bad it is

I kind of agree with you. It's hard to see the BE is a major BBall conference right now until you can evaluate some of these teams over a longer period of higher play.

You have G-town, Nova, and Marquette who have pretty decent records.

Creighton will be an interesting case as they lose McDermott who has played like a top 3 player the past 2 years. We'll see how well the recruiting goes

XU is finding life in the "new" BE tougher as the bottom of the BE is still better than the bottom of the likes in the A-10

SJU hasn't done squat for years.

DePaul hasn't done squat for years

Providence hasn't been all that great for a while

Seton Hall hasn't been good in a long while, either

I'm not sure that the BE is really a Mid-Major, but I'm not sold that the new BE will be a major player (conference) in BBall, either. Only time will tell.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think I have to agree w/Hockey. You can't just look at the conf. and say: it's bad, so they're still a mid-major.. look at the SEC, it's not much better. You have one good team, one middle of the road team and a bunch of low-average to bad teams. But it's still a major conf.

Here's the thing, though...the SEC has a much longer history being a major player with higher profile teams than the "new" big east.

Only time will tell, but it's fair to say that they are closer to Mid-Major than Major conference right now. The new teams like Creighton and Xavier will have to really step up their games in the coming years to push through and keep the BE in the Major BB discussion. If it only turns out to be 'Nova or G-town most years, and Creight and XU and the like fall off...it's not good.

Teams like Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul and SJU haven't been major players, even in the old BE, for several years (or more in some cases).

A lot to prove, but it will take time to see where we should all place the new BE in terms of Mid-Major/Major

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Here's the thing, though...the SEC has a much longer history being a major player with higher profile teams than the "new" big east.

Only time will tell, but it's fair to say that they are closer to Mid-Major than Major conference right now. The new teams like Creighton and Xavier will have to really step up their games in the coming years to push through and keep the BE in the Major BB discussion. If it only turns out to be 'Nova or G-town most years, and Creight and XU and the like fall off...it's not good.

Teams like Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul and SJU haven't been major players, even in the old BE, for several years (or more in some cases).

A lot to prove, but it will take time to see where we should all place the new BE in terms of Mid-Major/Major

Yeah be these things have been a result to coaches/recruiting. The only one of that group that still looks lost is DePaul. The other 3 have great classes and SJU has been on the up and up for a bit.

DePaul simply needs a coach look where the heck they play. Recruits should be flocking there but instead they are all going to MU, Illinois or if really good to the blue bloods.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yeah be these things have been a result to coaches/recruiting. The only one of that group that still looks lost is DePaul. The other 3 have great classes and SJU has been on the up and up for a bit.

DePaul simply needs a coach look where the heck they play. Recruits should be flocking there but instead they are all going to MU, Illinois or if really good to the blue bloods.

Doesn't really matter though WHY.

All have prolonged years of being crappy.

SJU continually under achieves under Lavin, and G-town for as good as they are every year (ranking-wise) also under achieves, but that is for another discussion, so I digress.

The point being, the Old BE lost so many good teams, and didn't replace them with big teams from another big conference, but with a bunch of Mid-Majors: Creighton, Butler, Xavier. None of these teams have the history of competing and recruiting against other big-time schools in their respective conferences. They are all used to being a Big Fish in a little pond. Now that they've moved, we haven't had enough time to see just how big the new Pond is, or how they will respond to these new challenges.

Adding a bunch of Mid-Majors to a league with 3-4 perennially crappy teams, and only leaving 2 or 3 "Big" conference type teams in Marquette, G-Town and Nova makes it difficult to surmise whether the future of this league is more Mid-Major or Major.

As I said, time will tell.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Doesn't really matter though WHY.

All have prolonged years of being crappy.

SJU continually under achieves under Lavin, and G-town for as good as they are every year (ranking-wise) also under achieves, but that is for another discussion, so I digress.

The point being, the Old BE lost so many good teams, and didn't replace them with big teams from another big conference, but with a bunch of Mid-Majors: Creighton, Butler, Xavier. None of these teams have the history of cometing and recruiting against other big-time schools in their respective conferences.

Adding a bunch of Mid-Majors to a league with 3-4 perennially crappy teams, and only leaving 2 or 3 "Big" conference type teams in Marquette, G-Town and Nova makes it difficult to surmise whether the future of this league is more Mid-Major or Major.

As I said, time will tell.

yeah but if you are going to point to the prolonged lack of success. Talking about MU and Gtown being down this year doesn't work either since they have prolonged success. A long with Nova and really Xavier.

So you got 4 and 4. Then the middle teams are Butler and Creighton who have been successful lately but can they stay?

Point is what I was getting at...this conference is almost always going to be a 5 bid league(this year is going to be a tight squeeze due to rare circumstances) and playing a true round robin you are only playing 4 games against truly bad teams(butler and DePaul).

In other leagues where the schedules are unbalanced you could run into missing a lot of key teams twice. Big 12 is a gauntlet this year but that is rare.

Just saying that with this talk of Big East not being elite and in a down year...yet they are the 4th highest rated conference. I think that bodes for the conferences future. And down the line(not a fan right now cuz I love the round robin schedule) they have the power to make it even deeper if two teams emerge from other conferences.

 

[Jim Rome is Flaming]

I think I have to agree w/Hockey. You can't just look at the conf. and say: it's bad, so they're still a mid-major.. look at the SEC, it's not much better. You have one good team, one middle of the road team and a bunch of low-average to bad teams. But it's still a major conf.

You're calling Kentucky middle of the road? I'm not saying they're elite, but they're a hell of a lot better than you're giving them credit for. As far as comparing the two conferences, you're probably right.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

You're calling Kentucky middle of the road? I'm not saying they're elite, but they're a hell of a lot better than you're giving them credit for. As far as comparing the two conferences, you're probably right.

yeah I agree, UK isn't elite this year but they are definitely better than middle of the road.

 

[gpm1976]

You're calling Kentucky middle of the road? I'm not saying they're elite, but they're a hell of a lot better than you're giving them credit for. As far as comparing the two conferences, you're probably right.

well.. I guess I was think in terms of the conf. Here's how I see it:

Tier one(elite) - Florida

Tier two - Kentucky

All the rest..

Not to belittle to accomplishments of UK and UF, but I still think their records are a little inflated due to how bad the rest of the conf. is.