Lebron James...MVP in a loss?

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Yeah, I always look at MVP as most valuable to his particular team. Everything else being the same, take Lebron out of the Cavs lineup and this is likely the worst blowout in finals history.

Voting in numerous awards usually doesn't though.
Majority of voters usually go for best player on best team.

There is NO DOUBT that James has been the biggest difference maker in the series, but IMO no chance he wins if the Cavs lose in 6.
If he drags them to a losing game 7 but continues to put up numbers like he has AND Curry cools off, then he might get it.

I don't see anyway Iggy gets it over him.

As of now, it's Currys to lose though.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

36.6 ppg

12.4 boards

8.8 assists

thats lebron this final. almost a triple double every time.

his worst game?

20/12/8 (7-22 shooting)

still almost a tripdub.

The points are nice, but also consider the low shooting % combined with the massive amount of shots taken.

 

[Rock Strongo]

The points are nice, but also consider the low shooting % combined with the massive amount of shots taken.

.399 (same he shot vs the bulls)

nearly the acceptable 40%

and for the amount of shots hes had to take? i can see why.

i hate lebron, like loathe the guy...but i cant ignore what hes doing single-handedly.

if he had help around him, id call him lebron the ball hog.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

.399 (same he shot vs the bulls)

nearly the acceptable 40%

and for the amount of shots hes had to take? i can see why.

i hate lebron, like loathe the guy...but i cant ignore what hes doing single-handedly.

if he had help around him, id call him lebron the ball hog.

Acceptable to whom?
Miami days, 50% was acceptable. Near 60 was the goal.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Acceptable to whom?
Miami days, 50% was acceptable. Near 60 was the goal.

for someone not in the paint, 40%+ has always been considered a decent day. over 45%, a good day.

name all the guys not living in the paint who averaged over 50% for a season.

there aint a ton.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

for someone not in the paint, 40%+ has always been considered a decent day. over 45%, a good day.

name all the guys not living in the paint who averaged over 50% for a season.

there aint a ton.

I'm not interested in "all guys".

Were talking about LeBron James.
Same guy that shot:

2010 .510
2011 .531
2012 .565
2013 .567

Near 40 is a SUBSTANTIAL drop off.

 

[Rock Strongo]

I'm not interested in "all guys".

Were talking about LeBron James.
Same guy that shot:

2010 .510
2011 .531
2012 .565
2013 .567

Near 40 is a SUBSTANTIAL drop off.

well, notice the 50% seasons are nowhere to be found in cleveland, but are in miami?

he shot 50% in cleveland, once...his last year there.

get a theme?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

well, notice the 50% seasons are nowhere to be found in cleveland, but are in miami?

he shot 50% in cleveland, once...his last year there.

get a theme?

He never had a post game in his previous Cavs years so you are comparing apples to oranges.

So, let's talk apples to apples which is comparing stats when he had a post game.

All we heard all season was that this was the most complete team he was ever on.
Had the PG, had the C...had it all.

So why would he perform worse?

 

[gordontrue]

He never had a post game in his previous Cavs years so you are comparing apples to oranges.

So, let's talk apples to apples which is comparing stats when he had a post game.

All we heard all season was that this was the most complete team he was ever on.
Had the PG, had the C...had it all.

So why would he perform worse?

Why are you comparing James to himself, in regards to whether his numbers are deserving of Finals MVP? That's a really strange criteria, IMO.

 

[Rock Strongo]

He never had a post game in his previous Cavs years so you are comparing apples to oranges.

So, let's talk apples to apples which is comparing stats when he had a post game.

All we heard all season was that this was the most complete team he was ever on.
Had the PG, had the C...had it all.

So why would he perform worse?

he certainly had a post game in cleveland. ever hear of mismatches?

sincerely,

a celtics fan


its the talent around him, he was set up for better shots in miami. its why his FG% again dipped under 50% in cleveland this year. he had more to do on his own, which he did both times in cleveland. he deferred more in miami.

if you dont see that i cant help you.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Why are you comparing James to himself, in regards to whether his numbers are deserving of Finals MVP? That's a really strange criteria, IMO.

i dont get it either. lets not compare james to james lets instead compare...umm...james to james?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Why are you comparing James to himself, in regards to whether his numbers are deserving of Finals MVP? That's a really strange criteria, IMO.

I wasn't.
I said his scoring numbers are very nice, but nothing to get that worked up over if you consider shooting % and number of shots taken.

Then..it turned into that.

 

[gordontrue]

I wasn't.
I said his scoring numbers are very nice, but nothing to get that worked up over if you consider shooting % and number of shots taken.

Then..it turned into that.

Right, I got that. By anyone's standards... his efficiency isn't great but isn't horrible. By his standards... his efficiency is horrible.

But... overall... compared to other historic performances.... even accounting for the inefficiency... his numbers are nothing less than amazing and unprecedented.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

[QUOTE="Rock Strongo, post: 6767351, member: 4038"]i dont get it either. lets not compare james to james lets instead compare...umm...james to james?[/QUOTE]


obviously you don't.

He took around 40% of the teams shots and scored around 44% of their points.
You think that's something special?

 

[Rock Strongo]

[QUOTE="Rock Strongo, post: 6767351, member: 4038"]i dont get it either. lets not compare james to james lets instead compare...umm...james to james?

obviously you don't.

He took around 40% of the teams shots and scored around 44% of their points.
You think that's something special?[/QUOTE]
for a guy who, without him, the team would lose by 50 pts a night?

yeah

and i hate lebron

 

[gordontrue]

He took around 40% of the teams shots and scored around 44% of their points.
You think that's something special?

Yes! And you haven't even gotten to the double digit rebounds or 8 assists yet.

Its not easy to be the only focus for the other team and accomplish that.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Right, I got that. By anyone's standards... his efficiency isn't great but isn't horrible. By his standards... his efficiency is horrible.

But... overall... compared to other historic performances.... even accounting for the inefficiency... his numbers are nothing less than amazing and unprecedented.

I counter that if you took scorers like Harden, Westbrook, Durant, healthy Kobe, etc..and put them in the Finals in a situation where they knew they were expected to 'do it all', they could also post massive numbers.

It your putting up those numbers though, and can't stay within double digits, then who cares and what does it really accomplish?

 

[gordontrue]

I counter that if you took scorers like Harden, Westbrook, Durant, healthy Kobe, etc..and put them in the Finals in a situation where they knew they were expected to 'do it all', they could also post massive numbers.

It your putting up those numbers though, and can't stay within double digits, then who cares and what does it really accomplish?

See I seriously doubt it. I'll give Kobe the benefit of the doubt - at least for the scoring - cause we've seen him do it on bad teams.

You put any of those guys with this team and they become the sole focus of the defense. Suddenly... what they've been doing all season becomes incredibly more difficult.

And - again - we haven't even approached the subject of rebounds, assists, or defense yet.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

obviously you don't.

He took around 40% of the teams shots and scored around 44% of their points.
You think that's something special?

for a guy who, without him, the team would lose by 50 pts a night?

yeah

and i hate lebron[/QUOTE]



Of course they would lose is a much worse fashion.
Again, who cares?
I've always said he was the best in the league, but a mountain of stats in losses doesn't impress me.
He was great in last years Finals. Who cares? We got our asses kicked.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

See I seriously doubt it. I'll give Kobe the benefit of the doubt - at least for the scoring - cause we've seen him do it on bad teams.

You put any of those guys with this team and they become the sole focus of the defense. Suddenly... what they've been doing all season becomes incredibly more difficult.

And - again - we haven't even approached the subject of rebounds, assists, or defense yet.

His all around effort has been Herculean.
I've stated that.
I'm just saying his ppg is nothing special under the circumstances and especially when we know at times the Warriors were in the mindset of 'letting him' get his as long as the others were pretty much locked down.