Lakers 2017-2018 Season Thread

[trojanfan12]

Actually, worse case scenario is they get no FA's in either offseason and gave up two young guys in the hopes of getting two guys.

Cause they didn't have to do anything to sign one guy.

This trade only works if they sign two max FA's and makes less sense if it's in 2019 as they could've traded those guys in the off season or next season and probably got a better trade.

Nothing is guaranteed in FA, and yet that's what they have put all their eggs into doing.

You guys can drink the cool aid all you want. I'm just being realistic and not living in the clouds.

This team was playing well and chemistry was vastly improving ( and that was without Ball ).

Just don't be surprised if the FA route backfires because there is no one to sign ( because soon to be FA's resign with their teams ), or they choose not to go the Lakers at all.

And just because Nance, Kuzma and Hart were had late 1st doesn't mean it will be the same this draft ( which doesn't appear to be nearly as deep as last years ).

Actually the worst case scenario would have been doing nothing and not even being in position to sign a difference maker.

As for the 2 young guys. Let's put aside the fact that we like them and that they were a point of pride because the Lakers discovered them and got the steal of the draft with each of them, and look at what they really gave up.

Clarkson is a volume scorer off the bench and a bit of a defensive liability. Basically, he's a younger Lou Williams. There are plenty of players in the NBA who can be a volume scorer of the bench. In fact, the Lakers have a better version of Clarkson in Hart who also happens to play defense and rebound.

Nance is long and athletic. He hustles, plays defense and makes the occasional highlight reel play. Again, there are a lot of those players in the NBA and the Lakers appear to have a better version of Nance in Kyle Kuzma.

The Lakers weren't getting 1 guy. 1 guy doesn't cut it anymore and FA's that actually move, move together or join a team that already has at least 1 other max level guy. What max level guy do the Lakers have to attract another max level FA?

You're not being realistic at all. You're acting like this is Short Buss signing Mozgov and Deng when it's as far from that as possible.

No one is drinking any Kool-Aid. I think we all realize that clearing the cap space is just part of the equation. Now it's on Magic and Pelinka to deliver the necessary players this off-season or next.

No offense, but your post comes off like someone who wants to be able to say "See, I told you it wouldn't work" if it doesn't, but still wants to join the celebration if it does.

 

[shopson67]

How were the Lakers going to clear Clarkson's and Nance's salaries this summer?

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

Trojan

I get what you are saying, but here's where I'm coming from. It could've been done later once they had a commitment from a FA this summer.

Let's use LeBron as an example since he is the one Magic is obviously targeting most. The 2 times he has been a FA, how did his team acquire him? Via sign and trades. Once the team knew he wanted to sign with them, they worked out a deal with his old team and made it happen.

The Lakers could've done the same thing using Nance and Clarkson in a sign and trade once they knew LeBron wanted to come to LA.

Instead, they jumped the shark and made the move in hopes they can make it happen. I honestly don't know if it will happen or not. No one does. Magic can say he is confident they can sign two guys all day for the next 29 games, doesn't make it reality.

That's why alot of teams in the past have done the sign and trade route so if they can't get the guys they want, they haven't hurt the team just to chase those guys.

Look at all the teams that cleared space to make a run at LeBron the first time ( Chicago, N.Y., etc ). How did that work out for them? Those 2 teams especially are still trying to recover after striking out. And Miami pulls the sign and trade once they knew he wanted to go there.

This is like dumping your girlfriend in hopes of dating this other girl who may become available soon. Maybe you can get her to date you, but if you can't, you've lost your current girlfriend for good. When common sense would've told you to wait and make sure the other girl would a) be available, and 2) actually wanted to date you before breaking up with your current girl.

Essentially, That's what the Lakers have done. As a life long Laker fan, I hope it works out for the team. I just think there were other ways to do it, That's all I'm saying.

And one more thing to consider: what's not to say by doing this trade and helping the Cavs get younger and better they didn't help convince LeBron to stay in Cleveland, thereby eliminating the very FA they were wanting to acquire.

 

[Retroram52]

Everyone here keeps forgetting the model of success the Icon put together in GS, Memphis and other places. You build a team through the draft and add pieces that usually are not max players except the deal they did with KD. Be judicious and build. This craziness of looking for a max player is really trying to get a quick fix to building from the draft.

The only thing that makes this draft palatable is the first round pick. IT may or may not pan out but I think the team chemistry that was building was disrupted and we were right in the middle of a growing turnaround. If it works, great. Magic and Pelinka will look like geniuses, but if it fails, this will be a colossal blunder that may set us back even further. ALR is right, the Lakers should have waited.

 

[trojanfan12]

I get what you are saying, but here's where I'm coming from. It could've been done later once they had a commitment from a FA this summer.

Let's use LeBron as an example since he is the one Magic is obviously targeting most. The 2 times he has been a FA, how did his team acquire him? Via sign and trades. Once the team knew he wanted to sign with them, they worked out a deal with his old team and made it happen.

The Lakers could've done the same thing using Nance and Clarkson in a sign and trade once they knew LeBron wanted to come to LA.

Actually, there is no guarantee that they could have moved them in the summer at all. This deal happened now because the Cavs needed to make a deal now to try and improve their team. They actually had a deal with the Clippers (twice) for DeAndre Jordan. If the Lakers don't swoop in with their offer, there is no guarantee that anyone would want them later.

The Lakers had been getting lowball offers for both of them for months. This was the by the far the best offer and sets them up with arguably the healthiest cap situation in the league. They did it getting rid of players who clearly weren't part of their future plans.

The Lakers could've done the same thing using Nance and Clarkson in a sign and trade once they knew LeBron wanted to come to LA.

Not if the Cavs had already made the deal with the Clippers and/or the one that brought them the other 2 players they got.

And one more thing to consider: what's not to say by doing this trade and helping the Cavs get younger and better they didn't help convince LeBron to stay in Cleveland, thereby eliminating the very FA they were wanting to acquire.

This part is actually interesting. By making this trade, the Cavs basically handed the Lakers the cap space they need to get Lebron to leave. However, by making this trade the Lakers may have given the Cavs what they need to get Lebron to stay at least 1 more season.

If they don't get max guys this off-season, it's not the end of the world. They can save the space for the following season.

For myself, I am very happy with the way Jeanie, Magic and Pelinka have been doing things and trust them far more than Short Buss. It feels a lot more like when Dr. Buss was alive.

 

[trojanfan12]

Everyone here keeps forgetting the model of success the Icon put together in GS, Memphis and other places. You build a team through the draft and add pieces that usually are not max players except the deal they did with KD. Be judicious and build. This craziness of looking for a max player is really trying to get a quick fix to building from the draft.

That's not how he built the Lakers.

 

[trojanfan12]

The only thing that makes this draft palatable is the first round pick. IT may or may not pan out but I think the team chemistry that was building was disrupted and we were right in the middle of a growing turnaround. If it works, great. Magic and Pelinka will look like geniuses, but if it fails, this will be a colossal blunder that may set us back even further. ALR is right, the Lakers should have waited.

Couldn't disagree more. The cap space and 1st round pick make this a great trade. It doesn't matter if IT pans out or not, he's only going to be a Laker for 29 games. The Lakers have no intention of keeping him an if he truly insists on starting, he may not be here for 29 games.

There is no "colossal blunder", losing Nance and Clarkson isn't going to set the team back any further. I love them both, but they are simply role players with easily replicated skill sets. In fact, the Lakers already have better versions of them in Hart and Kuzma.

 

[trojanfan12]

I gotta say...all of this "the sky is falling" stuff is pretty funny though.

 

[trojanfan12]

How were the Lakers going to clear Clarkson's and Nance's salaries this summer?

Apparently there was going to be a long line of teams just waiting to help the Lakers clear cap space by taking Nance and Clarkson off of their hands. lol

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

Trojan

There is also no guarantee they get any marquee FA's to sign with them either. You can argue your side all day long and I can argue mine, but in the end neither scenario is guaranteed.

And while I agree that this FO is way better than the previous, the fact remains that since the Lakers have already set the course down this,max FA path there is no turning back.

And, if they strike out in both summers ( which could happen if guys decide to stay put where they Re or go somewhere other than the Lakers ), the Lakers will end up getting stuck with other bad contracts like Deng's because at some point they have to use 90% of their cap.

Had the left their options open by holding onto Clarkson and Nance, having the room for 1 max player already, if they struck out, they just continue developing the young nucleus they have with those 2 guys playing important roles off the bench.

Yes, you can replace those guys, but it will be with older versions, not the young ones they had.

Like I said, I hope their plan works. I really do. I just hate when teams pigeon hole themselves into one course instead of leaving themselves options if the course doesn't materialize.

And, I disagree with the notion the Lakers need 2 max guys. I think one or two of the young guys will develop into a star that will fill that role. What this team is missing is a vet that can be a go to guy in clutch situations.

These young guys share the ball really, really well, but there is no clear clutch guy to either shoot or make things happen in a close game ( ala Kobe ).

Where do you think the team is weak besides that, Trojan?

They have their PG, starting SG looked weak until Hart started getting consistent minutes and performing, SF is covered with Ingram, PF is coveted between Randle and Kuzma, and the Lakers have a couple of young Centers in Bryant and Zubac to go with Lopez who has been solid and can stretch the floor.

Bench was very good, but is now missing 2 key players.

Other than maturity which will come in time through development, this team has what it takes to compete very soon as it is ( they are like 12-4 their last 16 games ). These guys are figuring out how to play together, and play well.

And, if they had chosen to be patient, I'm betting those 2 max guys they are wanting to get so bad may end up being on the team already.

 

[tomodach10]

Actually, there is no guarantee that they could have moved them in the summer at all. This deal happened now because the Cavs needed to make a deal now to try and improve their team. They actually had a deal with the Clippers (twice) for DeAndre Jordan. If the Lakers don't swoop in with their offer, there is no guarantee that anyone would want them later.

The Lakers had been getting lowball offers for both of them for months. This was the by the far the best offer and sets them up with arguably the healthiest cap situation in the league. They did it getting rid of players who clearly weren't part of their future plans.



Not if the Cavs had already made the deal with the Clippers and/or the one that brought them the other 2 players they got.




This part is actually interesting. By making this trade, the Cavs basically handed the Lakers the cap space they need to get Lebron to leave. However, by making this trade the Lakers may have given the Cavs what they need to get Lebron to stay at least 1 more season.

If they don't get max guys this off-season, it's not the end of the world. They can save the space for the following season.

For myself, I am very happy with the way Jeanie, Magic and Pelinka have been doing things and trust them far more than Short Buss. It feels a lot more like when Dr. Buss was alive.

Clarkson's value IMO is at his highest point now as a Laker. Like you said teams were low balling the Lakers all season. No gaurentee they could have gotten more in the offseason. . I dont think holding on to Clarkson and Nance would have been a bad thing as well. However, he and Nance are not superstar type players to fret over losing IMO.I think Magic and Rob will get a max player in the offseason. They also will have flexability for the future. I could be wrong, but it will not set the frachise back. I would have been pissed if kuzma and Brandon were traded. To me they have that superstar potential that the other guys dont have. Clarkson will get the chance to start. I am happy for him. Nance goes to his father's team. I think that is great for him as well. This trade helped both teams.

 

[tomodach10]

Trojan

There is also no guarantee they get any marquee FA's to sign with them either. You can argue your side all day long and I can argue mine, but in the end neither scenario is guaranteed.

And while I agree that this FO is way better than the previous, the fact remains that since the Lakers have already set the course down this,max FA path there is no turning back.

And, if they strike out in both summers ( which could happen if guys decide to stay put where they Re or go somewhere other than the Lakers ), the Lakers will end up getting stuck with other bad contracts like Deng's because at some point they have to use 90% of their cap.

Had the left their options open by holding onto Clarkson and Nance, having the room for 1 max player already, if they struck out, they just continue developing the young nucleus they have with those 2 guys playing important roles off the bench.

Yes, you can replace those guys, but it will be with older versions, not the young ones they had.

Like I said, I hope their plan works. I really do. I just hate when teams pigeon hole themselves into one course instead of leaving themselves options if the course doesn't materialize.

And, I disagree with the notion the Lakers need 2 max guys. I think one or two of the young guys will develop into a star that will fill that role. What this team is missing is a vet that can be a go to guy in clutch situations.

These young guys share the ball really, really well, but there is no clear clutch guy to either shoot or make things happen in a close game ( ala Kobe ).

Where do you think the team is weak besides that, Trojan?

They have their PG, starting SG looked weak until Hart started getting consistent minutes and performing, SF is covered with Ingram, PF is coveted between Randle and Kuzma, and the Lakers have a couple of young Centers in Bryant and Zubac to go with Lopez who has been solid and can stretch the floor.

Bench was very good, but is now missing 2 key players.

Other than maturity which will come in time through development, this team has what it takes to compete very soon as it is ( they are like 12-4 their last 16 games ). These guys are figuring out how to play together, and play well.

And, if they had chosen to be patient, I'm betting those 2 max guys they are wanting to get so bad may end up being on the team already.

You are not going to win a championship with this same roster this year or next year. Changes had to be made. How many more years are we going to wait for Clarkson to be consistent??? Clarkson by now should have been the go to guy on this team. It never happened and never would ImO.

 

[trojanfan12]

Clarkson's value IMO is at his highest point now as a Laker. Like you said teams were low balling the Lakers all season. No gaurentee they could have gotten more in the offseason. . I dont think holding on to Clarkson and Nance would have been a bad thing as well. However, he and Nance are not superstar type players to fret over losing IMO.I think Magic and Rob will get a max player in the offseason. They also will have flexability for the future. I could be wrong, but it will not set the frachise back. I would have been pissed if kuzma and Brandon were traded. To me they have that superstar potential that the other guys dont have. Clarkson will get the chance to start. I am happy for him. Nance goes to his father's team. I think that is great for him as well. This trade helped both teams.

I agree. We all love Clarkson and Nance. In fact, if I'm being completely honest, my initial reaction when I saw the announcement was WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY JUST DO????

When I removed the emotion of losing 2 players I really like, I was very happy with what they did.

 

[trojanfan12]

There is also no guarantee they get any marquee FA's to sign with them either. You can argue your side all day long and I can argue mine, but in the end neither scenario is guaranteed.

I agree with this. There is no guarantee. However, not clearing the cap space would guarantee not getting any max players.

And while I agree that this FO is way better than the previous, the fact remains that since the Lakers have already set the course down this,max FA path there is no turning back.

You realize that this course was set the minute they hired Magic and Pelinka, right? This is exactly what they both said they were going to do. In fact, in yesterdays press conference, Magic said "This is what I came here to do."

And, if they strike out in both summers ( which could happen if guys decide to stay put where they Re or go somewhere other than the Lakers ), the Lakers will end up getting stuck with other bad contracts like Deng's because at some point they have to use 90% of their cap.

They won't end up with bad contracts like Deng. They will end up with contracts like Lopez and KCP...1 year deals that will be off the books at the end of the season. This isn't Short Buss panicking and making desperate signings to save his own ass.

Had the left their options open by holding onto Clarkson and Nance, having the room for 1 max player already, if they struck out, they just continue developing the young nucleus they have with those 2 guys playing important roles off the bench.

Clarkson is as developed as he's going to be. He's been in the league for what? 4 or 5 years now. Nance is pretty much who he's going to be as well. They are good players, however, they are not the kind of players that are essential to championship teams because they are easily replaced.

Yes, you can replace those guys, but it will be with older versions, not the young ones they had.

The Lakers have already replaced them with players who are younger and better. Hart and Kuzma. Bot of whom will be coming off the bench if the Lakers get 2 max guys.

And, I disagree with the notion the Lakers need 2 max guys. I think one or two of the young guys will develop into a star that will fill that role.

They need 2 max guys because they don'tr currently have any max guys and they aren't getting 1 to come by himself. Like it or not, that's not how things are working these days.

If the Lakers get 2 max guys and then say 1 or 2 of Lonzo, Ingram and Kuzma develop into stars...that's even better, then they would have what the Warriors do now.

What this team is missing is a vet that can be a go to guy in clutch situations.

So then they need a max player or 2. Good thing they have the cap space to go after them.

These young guys share the ball really, really well, but there is no clear clutch guy to either shoot or make things happen in a close game ( ala Kobe ).

Where do you think the team is weak besides that, Trojan?

Off the top of my head...interior defense, rebounding, 3 point shooting, standing up to physical play, and knowing how to win.

They have their PG, starting SG looked weak until Hart started getting consistent minutes and performing, SF is covered with Ingram, PF is coveted between Randle and Kuzma, and the Lakers have a couple of young Centers in Bryant and Zubac to go with Lopez who has been solid and can stretch the floor.

Bench was very good, but is now missing 2 key players.

You think this is a contending lineup and that Clarkson and Nance are so important that not having them prevents it from being one?

And, if they had chosen to be patient, I'm betting those 2 max guys they are wanting to get so bad may end up being on the team already.

2 is good, 4 is better.

 

[trojanfan12]

You are not going to win a championship with this same roster this year or next year. Changes had to be made. How many more years are we going to wait for Clarkson to be consistent??? Clarkson by now should have been the go to guy on this team. It never happened and never would ImO.

Imo, Clarkson is a classic case of a player who is overvalued by his teams fans and undervalued by everyone else. He's not as good as we Lakers fans like to think he is. But he's also not just "some guy" like a lot of others seem to think.

 

[wildturkey]

In most cases, I'd agree. However, we are talking about a mess created by Short Buss. The Lakers couldn't just simply create cap space the moment they needed it.

Clarkson, for example, was signed through 2020 and his was the contract they absolutely had to unload to get the cap space they wanted. Deng's contract is untradeable and they were looking at having no choice but to stretch him. Now, they have a 1st round draft pick that they can possibly tie his contract to in a trade.

In order to get the cap space needed to do what they wanted to do, they had to make the moves they made sooner or later anyway. This gets it out of the way and allows the young team to adjust to what happened over the next 29 games.

The reason most teams end up hurting themselves doing what the Lakers have done is because they are teams that cleared space for players that they had no shot at and/or panicked when they didn't get the guys they wanted and signed them to bad deals.

From what I've read, the Lakers believe that they have a legit shot at landing top FA's this year, next year or maybe 1 in each year. I have a whole lot more faith in hearing that from Magic and Pelinka than from Short Buss.

From what's been said, if they miss this year, they will bring in a couple of guys on deals similar to Lopez and KCP or even see about bringing one or both back on another 1 year deal.

Bottom line, the Lakers didn't hurt themselves in any way, even if they don't get max guys this off-season. They gave up 2 players who, no matter how much we fans may like them, have skill sets that are easily replaced.

Clarkson's contract isn't a bad deal though. Everyone says it was a good deal from the moment it was signed until about a month ago and then the moment the trade happens, everyone is like "Oh yeah. It was a bad deal. Badly overpaid Had to move it". NO! No, its not! It's not like he's Evan Turner or Tyler Johnson making 18 to 20 mil a year. Clarkson is a productive 6th man/capable starter for a fair price. Nance is dirt cheap. Those contracts are moveable at any time. It happens all the time. There's no need to move them right this second with no guarantees you can fill the space. They had room for one max guy by just letting KCP and Lopez walk. That was gonna be there already. You could have easily waited until the summer to see if you could actually get the 2nd, and make the necessary moves to get them.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

 

[Retroram52]

That's not how he built the Lakers.

The Icon inherited a Lakers Team that was built through the draft by other people. Did you forget all that TJF12? Geez dude.

Couldn't disagree more. The cap space and 1st round pick make this a great trade. It doesn't matter if IT pans out or not, he's only going to be a Laker for 29 games. The Lakers have no intention of keeping him an if he truly insists on starting, he may not be here for 29 games.

There is no "colossal blunder", losing Nance and Clarkson isn't going to set the team back any further. I love them both, but they are simply role players with easily replicated skill sets. In fact, the Lakers already have better versions of them in Hart and Kuzma.

Well I suppose we shall see how this pans out, won't we. Like I said, if it all works like you state it will then these arguments are mute, but if it doesn't then I suppose I'll come knocking at your door.

 

[trojanfan12]

Clarkson's contract isn't a bad deal though. Everyone says it was a good deal from the moment it was signed until about a month ago and then the moment the trade happens, everyone is like "Oh yeah. It was a bad deal. Badly overpaid Had to move it".

Never said it was a bad deal. I said it had to be moved if they wanted to clear the cap space they need to land 2 max FA's. Also said that his skill set is easily replaced. Which it is and already has been.

Clarkson is a productive 6th man/capable starter for a fair price. Nance is dirt cheap. Those contracts are moveable at any time.

I disagree. The Lakers have been trying for months to move Clarkson and they've been getting lowballed. They finally got a deal that works for them.

I really don't understand some of you acting like it's the end of the world and that the Lakers made a huge blunder.

They didn't trade Lonzo, Ingram or Kuzma. They still have Randle, they still have a better version of Clarkson in Hart. They still have a better version of Nance in Kuzma and they now have cap space to go after 2 max players and if they can tie Deng to the first round pick, it will open up cap space for another near max player.

Why are some of you acting like they just broke up the Showtime Lakers in their prime?

You guys realize that Short Buss isn't running things anymore, right?

Clarkson was ALWAYS going to be traded and either Nance or Randle was going to either be traded or allowed to walk with nothing coming back. There was literally zero point in delaying the inevitable.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

You are not going to win a championship with this same roster this year or next year. Changes had to be made. How many more years are we going to wait for Clarkson to be consistent??? Clarkson by now should have been the go to guy on this team. It never happened and never would ImO.

Of course they won't win a championship this year or next.

However, I firmly believe that could be a playoff team next season even without a max FA. These young guys are developing nicely, and Luke has finally figured out how to work his rotations. The team is starting to close games that they let slip by early in the season, so next season those early season loses will be wins instead.

If they didn't have such a poor start to the season, they would be in the hunt right now, and That's with Ball injured.

So, this team has that potential even now.

And, have you forgotten GS only got one max FA? The rest of the team were draft picks they let develop into stars. And, GS had already won a title with their guys before adding Durant.