Lakers 2014 Off-Season Thread

[Kold]

Let's temper expectations fellas. I still believe that it will not happen.....but I certainly can't deny that these rumors are starting to pick up

 

[Retroram52]

So we are basically going to throw away re-building long-term players for three superstars and 11 other players like we had last year because we don't have enough money to fit the big bucks players (Kobe, Carmelo, and James) and sign additional talent? How did that work for Miami this past year?

And this is all predicated on moving Nash's contract which to date, nobody wants to do except Philly and they have removed themselves from the interest list. This is nuts. When Kobe retires, then what do we have? James and Anthony and we start the process all over again only three years from now.

And what is the likelihood of a championship in the next three years without a bigs presence and especially if any one or more get injured? I don't like what is happening and this is going to come back to bite us big time if it does.

 

[trojanfan12]

Let's temper expectations fellas. I still believe that it will not happen.....but I certainly can't deny that these rumors are starting to pick up

I don't believe it will happen either. However, when you consider that folks were saying that no FA's wanted to play for the Lakers and that they were considered to have no chance at getting either one, these latest reports are kind of cool.

As I posted on the main board, perhaps this means that the FO has found their "sea legs" and will start operating more like when Dr. Buss was alive.

The reports on how they made their pitch was vintage Dr. Buss. Low key, classy, no posters, no paparazzi, no bullshit.

Pretty much "this is who we are, this is what we're about, we're not going to pressure you. Let us know when you make your decision".

 

[Retroram52]

That might be true in prinicple TJF12, but that Dr. Buss style was done with a solid foundational strategy. This appears to be more show than substantive strategy. I hope I am wrong but if this all goes down, we are screwed long-term.

 

[trojanfan12]

So we are basically going to throw away re-building long-term players for three superstars and 11 other players like we had last year because we don't have enough money to fit the big bucks players (Kobe, Carmelo, and James) and sign additional talent? How did that work for Miami this past year?

And this is all predicated on moving Nash's contract which to date, nobody wants to do except Philly and they have removed themselves from the interest list. This is nuts. When Kobe retires, then what do we have? James and Anthony and we start the process all over again only three years from now.

And what is the likelihood of a championship in the next three years without a bigs presence and especially if any one or more get injured? I don't like what is happening and this is going to come back to bite us big time if it does.

You realize that 'Melo and Lebron aren't 30 yet, right? In 2 years, when Kobe is gone, the Lakers will have another $24 million to put pieces around Lebron and 'Melo.

And what long term re-build? The Lakers have virtually no draft picks for about 2-3 more years. To re-build that way, they wouldn't even be able to start for 3 years. They have some good, athletic young players, many of whom have already said they'd like to come back (and interestingly, haven't signed with anyone). You don't think some of them would come back on the cheap for a chance to play with Kobe, 'Melo and Lebron?

 

[Kold]

So we are basically going to throw away re-building long-term players for three superstars and 11 other players like we had last year because we don't have enough money to fit the big bucks players (Kobe, Carmelo, and James) and sign additional talent? How did that work for Miami this past year?

And this is all predicated on moving Nash's contract which to date, nobody wants to do except Philly and they have removed themselves from the interest list. This is nuts. When Kobe retires, then what do we have? James and Anthony and we start the process all over again only three years from now.

And what is the likelihood of a championship in the next three years without a bigs presence and especially if any one or more get injured? I don't like what is happening and this is going to come back to bite us big time if it does.

Retro, I totally understand your long term view....but if you have the chance to get Kobe,Melo, and Lebron, you gotta do it at ALL costs. It's a good chance that they can move Nash's contract or just stretch it out over 3 years. We could afford it if Lebron and Melo took around 16 mil....and as for how it worked for Miami, they won 2 titles and got to 4 straight Finals. As for the future...once Kobe retires, his contract goes off the books, and we use that money to get younger with whoever we could possibly sign. With that said, again this is an extreme longshot

 

[trojanfan12]

That might be true in prinicple TJF12, but that Dr. Buss style was done with a solid foundational strategy. This appears to be more show than substantive strategy. I hope I am wrong but if this all goes down, we are screwed long-term.

Part of what impressed Carmelo was the Lakers pitch to him re: how they can re-build around him in the future. Since he was impressed enough for the Lakers to become the top threat to the Knicks, it would seem that they presented him with a solid foundational strategy.

Look, I get that many of us think Jim Buss is a total screw up and maybe he is, but somehow, some way, they have managed to impress Carmelo and maybe Lebron too.

Does that mean Jim Buss has finally figured something out? Does it mean that Jeanie and Mitch told him to go sit in the corner and let them handle it? I don't know, but I also don't see a problem with looking at what is happening as a positive, whether they get either of them or not.

 

[trojanfan12]

Retro, I totally understand your long term view....but if you have the chance to get Kobe,Melo, and Lebron, you gotta do it at ALL costs. It's a good chance that they can move Nash's contract or just stretch it out over 3 years. We could afford it if Lebron and Melo took around 16 mil....and as for how it worked for Miami, they won 2 titles and got to 4 straight Finals. As for the future...once Kobe retires, his contract goes off the books, and we use that money to get younger with whoever we could possibly sign. With that said, again this is an extreme longshot

Exactly!! They could also backload 'Melo and Lebron's contracts so that after Kobe retires, they are getting more like $20 million (maybe even a little more) over the last 2 years.

Agree that getting both is an extreme longshot and getting one of them is still a longshot, but all things considered, this is positive news.

 

[Retroram52]

Yea I get that they are still somewhat young but you are assuming that Lebron and Carmelo can stay relatively injury free over that period of time TJF12. Our margin of error is not hospitable to long-term success but if signing these guys is considered a positive I say we are already screwed.

You can look at this as a positive in light of our rather tenouous future draft allotment already having been dispersed in a myriad of who gets what between Orlando and Phoenix depending on our record and such all the way to 2019. But at some point, we have to stop mortage the future for the present when it is evident that we are a team on a very fragile precipuce.

I realize I am the minority here so, I pretty much have made my stance clear. Only going forward is going to manifest itself in whether the present moves are really conducive to what we all want anyways.

 

[Kold]

Exactly!! They could also backload 'Melo and Lebron's contracts so that after Kobe retires, they are getting more like $20 million (maybe even a little more) over the last 2 years.

Agree that getting both is an extreme longshot and getting one of them is still a longshot, but all things considered, this is positive news.

Remember when we tried to tell everyone to stop counting out this VERY scenario before the start of the season? It took a hit when Kobe signed that contract, but the one constant is that Lebron and Melo would like to play on the same team

 

[lakersrule]

You realize that 'Melo and Lebron aren't 30 yet, right? In 2 years, when Kobe is gone, the Lakers will have another $24 million to put pieces around Lebron and 'Melo.

And a potential stud in Randle. Salary cap likely a little higher too.

 

[Retroram52]

Well like I stated before Lakersrule, I am the minority here and I think this will comeback to bite us in the long-term.

 

[Kold]

Yea I get that they are still somewhat young but you are assuming that Lebron and Carmelo can stay relatively injury free over that period of time TJF12. Our margin of error is not hospitable to long-term success but if signing these guys is considered a positive I say we are already screwed.

You can look at this as a positive in light of our rather tenouous future draft allotment already having been dispersed in a myriad of who gets what between Orlando and Phoenix depending on our record and such all the way to 2019. But at some point, we have to stop mortage the future for the present when it is evident that we are a team on a very fragile precipuce.

I realize I am the minority here so, I pretty much have made my stance clear. Only going forward is going to manifest itself in whether the present moves are really conducive to what we all want anyways.

Honestly, I think Randle(IF he doesn't get traded), can be that young guy. Either him, or the next young guy who we pick up in free agency. Now I haven't been around for all the Laker glory years, but one thing has remained a constant in the glory years(well atleast from showtime to present)....someway somehow, they've always found a way to keep a younger guy behind the established vet. Kareem-Magic/Worthy, Shaq/Kobe, Kobe/Gasol and then Dwight(of course that didn't work out). Now we just need to keep the cycle going and pulling off a miracle of Lebron and Melo, or just Melo would keep that cycle going....and after that we just have to figure out another way to keep it going

 

[trojanfan12]

Yea I get that they are still somewhat young but you are assuming that Lebron and Carmelo can stay relatively injury free over that period of time TJF12. Our margin of error is not hospitable to long-term success but if signing these guys is considered a positive I say we are already screwed.

You can look at this as a positive in light of our rather tenouous future draft allotment already having been dispersed in a myriad of who gets what between Orlando and Phoenix depending on our record and such all the way to 2019. But at some point, we have to stop mortage the future for the present when it is evident that we are a team on a very fragile precipuce.

I realize I am the minority here so, I pretty much have made my stance clear. Only going forward is going to manifest itself in whether the present moves are really conducive to what we all want anyways.

What's really going on here? Why are you so negative? You're now worried about injuries to players who have virtually no history of injuries.


And since when does the opportunity to sign 2 of the best players in the league equal being screwed?

Also, how does this mortgage the future? The Lakers aren't losing any more draft picks if they sign either one or both. The picks that are already gone aren't coming back, so the best way to re-build is to do exactly what they are doing and then eventually they will start having picks again.

Which one or both of these guys is it that you don't want and why?

 

[trojanfan12]

Remember when we tried to tell everyone to stop counting out this VERY scenario before the start of the season? It took a hit when Kobe signed that contract, but the one constant is that Lebron and Melo would like to play on the same team

Yep, I remember.

 

[trojanfan12]

And a potential stud in Randle. Salary cap likely a little higher too.

If what some are saying comes to be, the salary cap could be significantly higher. I believe the current CBA is up after 2016 and they are already talking lockout or strike in 2017.

 

[wildturkey]

^Not only this, but being wary of Melo and Lebron because "injuries" is just silly. Drafting guys (even if we had picks) is a hell of a lot more risky than betting those two won't suffer a career altering injury. The lottery is essentially a crapshoot. Yeah, you can build through the draft but a top 5 player in their prime with no history of any type of injury, much less major, is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay safer bet.

 

[wildturkey]

If what some are saying comes to be, the salary cap could be significantly higher. I believe the current CBA is up after 2016 and they are already talking lockout or strike in 2017.

If current projections are any indication, the cap will likely increase between 3 to 5 mil every year for the next handful of seasons. It's not a guarantee though. It's taken a big jump recently that most weren't expecting so it might correct itself.

 

[Retroram52]

You tell me TJF12. You seem to know what is going on with the Lakers. I already explained my stance many times in the past with the Dr. Buss model of old and what we have been doing to get us to this point is not it.

I am pretty much tired of explaining the same thing over and over in light of the frenzy to get both players. I am just stating to let it play out and if you are correct then so be it and I'll state that I was dead wrong. But right now, this appears to be just more of the same stuff we went through with Nash and Howard.

 

[trojanfan12]

You tell me TJF12. You seem to know what is going on with the Lakers. I already explained my stance many times in the past with the Dr. Buss model of old and what we have been doing to get us to this point is not it.

I am pretty much tired of explaining the same thing over and over in light of the frenzy to get both players. I am just stating to let it play out and if you are correct then so be it and I'll state that I was dead wrong. But right now, this appears to be just more of the same stuff we went through with Nash and Howard.

The Lakers have always built around stars. They are the most star driven franchise in a star driven league. They get them via trade, free agency and the draft, depending on what's available.

While one could say that it's been that way since Minneapolis with George Mikan, it really started with drafting Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, then acquiring Wilt, followed by Kareem, then drafting Magic and James Worthy, then in the 90's they got Shaq and Kobe, in the 00's they got Pau after Shaq left, then there was the failed Dwightmare experiment. Now they are trying to land 'Melo and/or Lebron to continue this.

It's always been at least one older star who is joined by a younger one who then takes the reins from that older star when he retires. It was done that way by Jack Kent Cooke, by Dr. Buss and now the Buss kids are trying to continue it.

I don't see what is so different from what the Lakers have always done. In fact, as much as we have criticized the Buss kids (especially Jim), this is the most "Dr. Buss/Lakers like" that they have acted since Dr. Buss passed.

I wasn't trying to be a smartass with my post, I truly am trying to understand what you are seeing, because to me it looks like they are trying to do what the Lakers have always done. I see that as a positive even if they end up getting neither one.

I particularly find it encouraging since pretty much everyone and their brother said the Lakers had "zero chance" of landing either one and that "no one wants to play for the Lakers anymore". For the FO to put together a pitch that's strong enough for them to now be considered the top threat to get 'Melo from the Knicks is encouraging, imo.

Think about it. The "experts" on t.v. (not to mention most of the posters here on the SportsHoopla) were literally laughing at the Lakers when they tossed their hat in the ring. No one is laughing now.

Additionally, from what they are saying in the reports, the pitch that was made to 'Melo (and I assume Lebron) was also very Dr. Buss like. There were no posters, no glitz, no paparazzi. It was a low key business meeting where they basically said: "This is who we are, this is what we're about, this is what we will do for you. If you like it, welcome aboard." Word is, that is what impressed 'Melo as much as anything.