LaCanfora: Trestman's job security tenuous; lack of leadership

[NCChiFan]

That's it, time out towels for the both of you....

 

[Wounded Bear]

If I told everyone that Jay Cutler would average 30 TD's and 15 Picks... each year for then next three years of his contract- I'm betting all the money from my shitty teacher paycheck that you all would take that in a heart beat.

That's what Trestman has done...so far. I feel like they can do that or better. The sad part...is even with that, it looks like that will just keep them at 7-9, 8-8, 9-7... for the next 3 years.

30:15? Not exactly super impressive especially in the context of the salary he is drawing. Really pretty much Tony Romo type numbers there. Not that Tony Romo is a bad QB, but he's not great. If Tony Romo received a contract with 54 million guaranteed, I would shit myself in the very same fashion I did when I heard the news about Jay's contract.....

With a bad defense and by having Aaron Rodgers in our division, I'm afraid the best a 30:15 ratio will do is a Wild Card berth.


Please remember that Peyton Manning threw for 55 TD's and 10 INT's last year. I know you can do the math, but I'll spell it out anyway: That's 25 more TD's and 5 less INT's than a 30:15 ratio. Although those numbers are gaudy and an all-time NFL record, Peyton has shown it is possible.

 

[richig07]

30:15? Not exactly super impressive especially in the context of the salary he is drawing. Really pretty much Tony Romo type numbers there. Not that Tony Romo is a bad QB, but he's not great. If Tony Romo received a contract with 54 million guaranteed, I would shit myself in the very same fashion I did when I heard the news about Jay's contract.....

With a bad defense and by having Aaron Rodgers in our division, I'm afraid the best a 30:15 ratio will do is a Wild Card berth.


Please remember that Peyton Manning threw for 55 TD's and 10 INT's last year. I know you can do the math, but I'll spell it out anyway: That's 25 more TD's and 5 less INT's than a 30:15 ratio. Although those numbers are gaudy and an all-time NFL record, Peyton has shown it is possible.

He's on pace for 34:16 and over 4,000 yards. Yeah, about Romo numbers.


But… holding Cutler to the standard of having the greatest QB season of all-time. That's just a TAD unfair, I think. lol

 

[beardown07]

Guise..its the Bears. I'm starting to believe that the 85' Bears are a curse. Cutler had a great D on the decline the first few years he was here...finally gets some O, and the D is historically bad.


They are like my golf game. One-putting all day from all over the greens, but can't get off the tee for shit, or vice verse.

 

[Wounded Bear]

I would cut a bitch, for a win this weekend.

I feel the same way except about getting some heroin and a hooker.

 

[beardown07]

I feel the same way except about getting some heroin and a hooker.

I would cut a bitch....heroin and hookers are cool. I hope the Bears win.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

WB... I get what you're saying- when we look @ salary and compare him to the Mannings/Brady's/Rodgers.. yeah 30/15 isn't as impressive. What I was trying to point out- poorly it seems. Is that I believe that people are down on Jay, because they are not winning games- And contend that if the record was say 5-3 and he had the exact same numbers (fumbles/ints included)...we wouldn't be having these discussions.

My hypothetical would be Jay's best career numbers for 3 straight years.

I'm betting that we would accept those #'s based on what we have seen from him prior to this season. I know the expectations were high for the TEAM. (and probably a bit over estimated by lots of us) That's all I was doing. (comparing Jay to Jay)

The way I look at the Cutler/Trestman marriage is just that- Has Trest made him better? I have to say yes. Just based on his career numbers.
Wins and loses we can debate are multiple causes. (some on Jay, defense, play calling, special teams, coaching...etc.)
We can debate the merits of QB contracts vs elite status vs QB Market til the cows come home...

Let me ask again...(I'm not trying to be a dick) Let's go back to 10 seconds before Jay signed his deal-
And imagine you have NO idea what 2014 season would turn into...If I told Bears Fans- IF Jay signs THIS deal:
I will guarantee that he will go 4300+ yards 30 TD and 15 Ints for the next 3 years.

Would you take that?
I contend that most Bears fans would. And not even think much of the $.

Is that NFL of today's elite numbers? No... Is it better then we have seen in Chicago for 300 years...yep. Is it good enough to win a SB...I would say yes...IF other factors are in place- like a defense that doesn't give up 51 points and can force more then 1 punt in two games.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

WB... I get what you're saying- when we look @ salary and compare him to the Mannings/Brady's/Rodgers.. yeah 30/15 isn't as impressive. What I was trying to point out- poorly it seems. Is that I believe that people are down on Jay, because they are not winning games- And contend that if the record was say 5-3 and he had the exact same numbers (fumbles/ints included)...we wouldn't be having these discussions.

My hypothetical would be Jay's best career numbers for 3 straight years.

I'm betting that we would accept those #'s based on what we have seen from him prior to this season. I know the expectations were high for the TEAM. (and probably a bit over estimated by lots of us) That's all I was doing. (comparing Jay to Jay)

The way I look at the Cutler/Trestman marriage is just that- Has Trest made him better? I have to say yes. Just based on his career numbers.
Wins and loses we can debate are multiple causes. (some on Jay, defense, play calling, special teams, coaching...etc.)
We can debate the merits of QB contracts vs elite status vs QB Market til the cows come home...

Let me ask again...(I'm not trying to be a dick) Let's go back to 10 seconds before Jay signed his deal-
And imagine you have NO idea what 2014 season would turn into...If I told Bears Fans- IF Jay signs THIS deal:
I will guarantee that he will go 4300+ yards 30 TD and 15 Ints for the next 3 years.

Would you take that?
I contend that most Bears fans would. And not even think much of the $.

Is that NFL of today's elite numbers? No... Is it better then we have seen in Chicago for 300 years...yep. Is it good enough to win a SB...I would say yes...IF other factors are in place- like a defense that doesn't give up 51 points and can force more then 1 punt in two games.

I for one would not. 30 and 15 is pretty mediocre in the modern pass friendly nfl. Maybe you would, but I wouldn't.

And saying we would take 5-3 but with the fumbles and ints is pretty much highlighting the point. The reason we aren't 5-3 is the fumbles and ints. Yeah I would take 900 yards passing all year and 50 ints and 20 Tds if that made us a contender.

But it doesn't. And we aren't.

 

[richig07]

I for one would not. 30 and 15 is pretty mediocre in the modern pass friendly nfl. Maybe you would, but I wouldn't.

And saying we would take 5-3 but with the fumbles and ints is pretty much highlighting the point. The reason we aren't 5-3 is the fumbles and ints. Yeah I would take 900 yards passing all year and 50 ints and 20 Tds if that made us a contender.

But it doesn't. And we aren't.

I would contest that there's more than one reason, but as I've said. His turnovers against BUF, CAR, and GB directly correlate to those losses. Forte's fumble was a killer as well in CAR.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

I would contest that there's more than one reason, but as I've said. His turnovers against BUF, CAR, and GB directly correlate to those losses. Forte's fumble was a killer as well in CAR.

Carolina... I can give you. Though Buff was an OT game the Defense gave up 193 yards- bring that to 100 or even 120...Bears win.

GB- NO PUNTS!!!

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Brett Favre: 508/336 Worse then a 2/1 ratio. Just sayin

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Favre Career: 25.4/16.8

 

[anotheridiot]

Brett Favre: 508/336 Worse then a 2/1 ratio. Just sayin

Two super bowl appearances, one win, three consecutive MVP awards, 24 playoff appearances, 13 total wins.

 

[JoeyTourettes]

Two super bowl appearances, one win, three consecutive MVP awards, 24 playoff appearances, 13 total wins.

That's my point- some are saying 30/15 isn't impressive... Favre did worse then 30/15 and won 3 MVP awards..SB...24 playoffs.
Longevity/durability is going to be a factor too- Favre never missed a game... for long time and played for 20 years.

And the Question then becomes: could he have 2 SB's 3 MVP awards...etc... if he had a defense like ours?

 

[anotheridiot]

Pretty sure Favre always had a bad defense.

Its fucking fudge packer week and we are using it to defend packers.

What has this years team turned us into.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

I don't know that anyone thinks the defense is playing well. Sure, they are playing poorly. But this is to be expected, because the Bears $$ is overwhelmingly on the offensive side of the ball.

Here are the Bears top salary cap hits:
Cutler $18.5
Marshall $9.375
Forte $7.9
Bushrod $7.3
Briggs $6.5
Bennett $6

Out of the top 6 guys, exactly one of them is a defender. I think the reason I (and others) are much more a annoyed with the offense is because that's where the team is supposed to be much stronger, if you follow the money.

I don't think it is exactly in debate that the Bears roster was a total shambles by 2011, with the defense still strong but with nothing left in the cupboard. The idea was quite clearly to have the offense carry the team while the defense retooled. That's what isn't happening.

I actually have more long term hope for the defense in spite of their current play than I did two years ago. There are several younger guys, and I think the criticism Houston was taking was very misplaced because he did a very solid job in run defense, and he is locked up very long term. If they can hit on another 2 or 3 solid good draft picks in next couple of years, the defense should have a pretty good nucleus.

Anyway, that's my take. Yes, I get it, the defense sucks. But that isn't where the Bears money is, so what do you expect?

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Favre Career: 25.4/16.8

Favre played in a mostly much less pass-friendly league than the current league. Heck, you can barely touch a QB after a pass now compared to even 5 years ago.

 

[toooverbearing]

That's my point- some are saying 30/15 isn't impressive... Favre did worse then 30/15 and won 3 MVP awards..SB...24 playoffs.
Longevity/durability is going to be a factor too- Favre never missed a game... for long time and played for 20 years.

And the Question then becomes: could he have 2 SB's 3 MVP awards...etc... if he had a defense like ours?

Are you saying football is a team sport?

 

[toooverbearing]

Favre played in a mostly much less pass-friendly league than the current league. Heck, you can barely touch a QB after a pass now compared to even 5 years ago.

Not sure who's argument this helps... but for the 30/15 club, there were only four members in the NFL last year (regular season only):

Manning 55/10
Brees 39/12
Rivers 32/11
Romo 31/10

There was one other qb with more than 30 TDs, but he had more than 15 picks:

Dalton 33/20

I'm sure injuries were the only thing keeping Aaron Rodgers off the list (and possibly Cutler, although he would have had to have 11 TDs to 3 Ints in the games he missed)... but injuries are a factor and one that has factored into Cutler's success as well.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

Not sure who's argument this helps... but for the 30/15 club, there were only four members in the NFL last year (regular season only):

Manning 55/10
Brees 39/12
Rivers 32/11
Romo 31/10

There was one other qb with more than 30 TDs, but he had more than 15 picks:

Dalton 33/20

I'm sure injuries were the only thing keeping Aaron Rodgers off the list (and possibly Cutler, although he would have had to have 11 TDs to 3 Ints in the games he missed)... but injuries are a factor and one that has factored into Cutler's success as well.

yeah, good point, maybe I should be clearer about something. I think the ratio matters more than the total numbers (to some extent). Partially because of injuries, but like Andrew Luck last year threw 23 TDs but only 9 picks. Russell Wilson threw 26 and 9. Freaking Nick Foles threw 27 and 2. So, no, not 30/15, but I would take any of those over 30/15. Turnovers are just murder.