Just how good ARE the Chiefs?

[Malibu]

The Broncos got a huge assist from the Chargers today. Now the Broncos need to handle their business tonight. If the Broncos win, then the pressure is really on the Chiefs next week. If the Broncos win, they can actually lose next week and still be in first place with a tie breaker. The Broncos need to get to work tonight because this is a big chance to solidify their place in the division.

But I do want to credit the Chiefs. They played some offense when they had to. And their defense held the Chargers under 42 points.

The Chiefs 2 best pass rushers were injured in the Chargers game and also remember its the same excuse other Broncos fans were using injuries. Yes it was good to see the Chiefs lose.

 

[iknowftbll]

The Chiefs 2 best pass rushers were injured in the Chargers game and also remember its the same excuse other Broncos fans were using injuries. Yes it was good to see the Chiefs lose.

Gotcha. And the Chiefs defense was as good after they left as they were before. In other words, those guys weren't doing jack shit before they left the game. Just like last week. And the week before. I am telling you, people have figured out the Chiefs defensive schemes. They did not allow an opponent to score more than 17 for their first 9 games. I am guessing they don't hold a single opponent under 20 the rest of the way.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Gotcha. And the Chiefs defense was as good after they left as they were before. In other words, those guys weren't doing jack shit before they left the game. Just like last week. And the week before. I am telling you, people have figured out the Chiefs defensive schemes. They did not allow an opponent to score more than 17 for their first 9 games. I am guessing they don't hold a single opponent under 20 the rest of the way.

They were certainly getting pressures, not everything must be a sack. And certainly Rivers would not have 6+ seconds on some throws.

 

[iknowftbll]

They were certainly getting pressures, not everything must be a sack. And certainly Rivers would not have 6+ seconds on some throws.

I understand that a defense need not get a sack every time to disrupt the play and rhythm as a whole. But this is the league leading sack artist defense we are talking about here. SOMETHING HAS CHANGED. The Chiefs defense has not dominated games recently like they did early. And while I am serious about giving their offense some props (38 points is a good day for any offense any week) I think it is obvious the Chiefs defense has been made.

Chiefs still finish 11-5 or 12-4. And the Broncos still need to win tonight or next week's game has the potential to move the Chiefs right back into first place. But what is happening is exactly what I figured would happen. When the Chiefs ran into offenses sporting their actual starting QBs, their defense came off looking average to awful.

 

[Morpheus]

They were certainly getting pressures, not everything must be a sack. And certainly Rivers would not have 6+ seconds on some throws.

They were only getting pressure early in the game. After Hali and Houston went out, Rivers had all day to throw.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

They were only getting pressure early in the game. After Hali and Houston went out, Rivers had all day to throw.

Which is exactly my point.

 

[Morpheus]

I understand that a defense need not get a sack every time to disrupt the play and rhythm as a whole. But this is the league leading sack artist defense we are talking about here. SOMETHING HAS CHANGED. The Chiefs defense has not dominated games recently like they did early. And while I am serious about giving their offense some props (38 points is a good day for any offense any week) I think it is obvious the Chiefs defense has been made.

Chiefs still finish 11-5 or 12-4. And the Broncos still need to win tonight or next week's game has the potential to move the Chiefs right back into first place. But what is happening is exactly what I figured would happen. When the Chiefs ran into offenses sporting their actual starting QBs, their defense came off looking average to awful.

What's changed is they are not playing 3rd string QB's anymore.

 

[iknowftbll]

What's changed is they are not playing 3rd string QB's anymore.

Aaaaaand, we have a winner!

 

[Morpheus]

Aaaaaand, we have a winner!

LOL, I never read your 2nd paragraph, oops.

It's not the only reason of course. But that was a huge contributing factor in their success in the 1st half of the season.

 

[iknowftbll]

LOL, I never read your 2nd paragraph, oops.

It's not the only reason of course. But that was a huge contributing factor in their success in the 1st half of the season.

Back when I started this thread I made it clear that I think the Chiefs are a good team. And I didn't hold it against them that they caught a few breaks en route to a 9-0 start. My main contention was when they were playing guys who were not undrafted FAs, or journeymen making their first starts in a couple seasons that their defense would not be able to be as dominant. Notice I did not say they would be bad. They are still a solid unit. But it should not surprise anyone that better QBs have success against them.

And it did really hurt the Chiefs that they lost their two leading rushers. But there is no denying their pass rush had already been fading fast before the losses of Hali and Houston.

 

[iknowftbll]

Well, it is a blown opportunity, but the Broncos still own the tiebreaker over the Chiefs as well as a game lead on the Patriots. All in all, this is a loss they can afford. But if they do it again it could cost them big. It's time to get back to work against the Chiefs next week.

Go Broncos!

 

[Broncosballer32]

Back when I started this thread I made it clear that I think the Chiefs are a good team. And I didn't hold it against them that they caught a few breaks en route to a 9-0 start. My main contention was when they were playing guys who were not undrafted FAs, or journeymen making their first starts in a couple seasons that their defense would not be able to be as dominant. Notice I did not say they would be bad. They are still a solid unit. But it should not surprise anyone that better QBs have success against them.

And it did really hurt the Chiefs that they lost their two leading rushers. But there is no denying their pass rush had already been fading fast before the losses of Hali and Houston.

Well, their sack production went down. However, that has more to do with offensive coordinators adjusting their plans in order to offset that rush. Look they were on pace for the most sacks in a single season, breaking the 1984 Bears. It is even more impressive, considering the defenses were actually allowed to rush the passer, and they did not have those rules where QBs could run outside the tackles and toss the ball into the stands.


Anyway, the point is that teams started adjusting their drop backs. To three step drops and they stayed within the pocket.

The pass rush more or less altered the way teams game plan, which is a thing in itself.

The Chiefs yesterday (like you said) missed Hali and Houston. That is like declawing a lion.

 

[iknowftbll]

We've compared the Chiefs to the 2006 and 2009 Broncos a couple times now and now more than ever I feel the comparisons are justified. Their defense has gotten beat up by better quarterbacks in Manning and Rivers. And despite their offense being better the past two weeks, the suspicion that it would not likely be enough proved founded.

The Chiefs are still likely goin to make the playoffs, unlike those two Broncos teams. A combination of a better start (9-0 vs 5-1 and 6-0) and a lack of quality playoff contenders all but assure the Chiefs a playoff spot. And regardless of the outcome (I say 12-4 and a defeat in the wild card round) they have improved to an improbable degree over last year. This was as good a transitional year as a fan can expect. It may not even be this good next year as success does not always carry over season to season.

So Congrats on the improvement. Good luck the rest of the way. The Chiefs may be a good team, but the Broncos made it clear twice now who is better.

 

[Broncosballer32]

We've compared the Chiefs to the 2006 and 2009 Broncos a couple times now and now more than ever I feel the comparisons are justified. Their defense has gotten beat up by better quarterbacks in Manning and Rivers. And despite their offense being better the past two weeks, the suspicion that it would not likely be enough proved founded.

The Chiefs are still likely goin to make the playoffs, unlike those two Broncos teams. A combination of a better start (9-0 vs 5-1 and 6-0) and a lack of quality playoff contenders all but assure the Chiefs a playoff spot. And regardless of the outcome (I say 12-4 and a defeat in the wild card round) they have improved to an improbable degree over last year. This was as good a transitional year as a fan can expect. It may not even be this good next year as success does not always carry over season to season.

So Congrats on the improvement. Good luck the rest of the way. The Chiefs may be a good team, but the Broncos made it clear twice now who is better.

True enough. Of course they are missing key pieces on their defense. We here certainly made a big giant deal about missing DBs in the second half last week. I guess if we as fans are going to cling to that notion, then it is only fair to point out that the Chiefs were missing Houston etc.

Plus, if the Chiefs had not dropped so many balls, there is a distinct possibility the result may have been different.

Nice to see them get through the 3 weeks with out anything happening to Manning and 2-1. It still sucked last week, and there was no excuse for blowing a 24-0 half time lead.


I was pleasantly surprised by Montee Ball yesterday. He certainly looked like a smooth running back yesterday. He found those holes, and he showed power too.

 

[Malibu]

True enough. Of course they are missing key pieces on their defense. We here certainly made a big giant deal about missing DBs in the second half last week. I guess if we as fans are going to cling to that notion, then it is only fair to point out that the Chiefs were missing Houston etc.

Plus, if the Chiefs had not dropped so many balls, there is a distinct possibility the result may have been different.

Nice to see them get through the 3 weeks with out anything happening to Manning and 2-1. It still sucked last week, and there was no excuse for blowing a 24-0 half time lead.


I was pleasantly surprised by Montee Ball yesterday. He certainly looked like a smooth running back yesterday. He found those holes, and he showed power too.

The Chiefs wr's were just terrible yesterday. There were plays out there the Chiefs should have made and was the difference but lets give Denver credit they won a game on the road in a very tough place and have taken control of the AFC West.

 

[iknowftbll]

Yes, they were missing someboieces, as were the Broncos. Julius Thomas was out an Manning still had 5 TD passes. We were missing Wolfe, Vick, and DRC on defense and still made a stop at the end of the game. Injuries are part of the game and neither team was full strength.

As for Chiefs receivers, you can say "if they didn't drop so many passes..." until you are blue in the face. It's a non-starter. They did drop those passes, and it has been a bit of a trend for them lately. The Broncos dropped some passes too. If you're going to speculate one way, speculate the other way too. Both team's made mistakes and that is part of football. There are two team's on the field after all. Yesterday the Broncos made it clear which one was better.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Yes, they were missing someboieces, as were the Broncos. Julius Thomas was out an Manning still had 5 TD passes. We were missing Wolfe, Vick, and DRC on defense and still made a stop at the end of the game. Injuries are part of the game and neither team was full strength.

As for Chiefs receivers, you can say "if they didn't drop so many passes..." until you are blue in the face. It's a non-starter. They did drop those passes, and it has been a bit of a trend for them lately. The Broncos dropped some passes too. If you're going to speculate one way, speculate the other way too. Both team's made mistakes and that is part of football. There are two team's on the field after all. Yesterday the Broncos made it clear which one was better.

The main differences I see is depth and receiver talent. Denver has both advantages over the Chiefs, and it showed this week.

 

[cdumler7]

Yesterday's game was a statement game to me for the Broncos. Going into a hostile environment, falling behind early on some key mistakes, and still coming back and winning is a good sign of things to come when the playoffs start up. Throw in I think this game answered a few questions about who is the #2 running back moving forward, can Decker step up even, and when the temperature drops can we run the ball. To me all of these questions were answered pretty well in this one.

I will tip my hat though to Alex Smith. This guy made some great throws especially in crunch time to only be let down by his receivers. His stat line does not do him justice for how well he played.

 

[iknowftbll]

Yesterday's game was a statement game to me for the Broncos. Going into a hostile environment, falling behind early on some key mistakes, and still coming back and winning is a good sign of things to come when the playoffs start up. Throw in I think this game answered a few questions about who is the #2 running back moving forward, can Decker step up even, and when the temperature drops can we run the ball. To me all of these questions were answered pretty well in this one.

I will tip my hat though to Alex Smith. This guy made some great throws especially in crunch time to only be let down by his receivers. His stat line does not do him justice for how well he played.

I am with you there. A slow start, a few miscues, and giving up a huge special teams play (I think the announcers said it was the longest in Chiefs history) and an early 21-7 deficit. In Arrowhead Stadium, too. That usually spells disaster for the Broncos, and pretty much anyone in that situation.

But then they scored 28 unanswered points.

Now here is a thought. You guys know I read a lot of fan comments on some of the amateur fan sites. Following the Broncos win in Denver, many Chiefs fans were talking about how their defense held the Broncos to a season low 27 points and played them close. But anyone who watched that game knows the Broncos pretty much controlled it from the moment Trevathan forced that fumble in the first quarter. It was 27-10 late and the Chiefs added a late score as window dressing. The Broncos played a conservative game and also missed a FG, an unforced error. All this tells me this: that game in Denver was not even close.

Fast forward to the game in Kansas City. A 35-28 final is a close game in anyone's book, right? And to a degree, this was a close game. When you have the Chiefs driving to tie the game starting with 3:32 of game time remaining, that is a close game. But in the middle of that drive and the Chiefs 21-7 lead were those 28 unanswered points. And this is why I have so much hope for this Broncos team. I still hear a lot of criticism of the Broncos defense. But you don't score 28 unanswered points if the defense isn't doing something right. The NFL is not a "make it-take it" league. Once you score the other guys get a chance. In order to score 28 unanswered points, the defense is getting stops, forcing turnovers, maybe even scoring.

Throughout the season the defense in most of the Broncos games has had stretches where they have shut down the opponents on multiple consecutive possessions. This part of the game has usually corresponded to that part of the game in which the Broncos have pulled away. Six of the first eight games fit this description. Yesterday's game fits this description.

It would be nice to have a defense like last year's where the opponent usually did not even crack 20 on the scoreboard. But this year's offense is exponentially better than last year's and while the defense is not as dominant, they are still a much better unit than they get credit for. And I have a feeling we have not even seen the best out of them yet.

The Broncos dominated the Chiefs in Denver and for a significant enough stretch of the game in Kansas City that the Chiefs couldn't close the gap. And when it appeared they were about to, it was the defense who turned them away.

 

[cdumler7]

iknowftbll you just got me thinking about this defense compared to last year's. This defense might not be as dominant (still waiting to see us actually have Champ, DRC, and Harris on the field at the same time) as the unit last year but one major difference is this defense seems to be able to come up with stops when we absolutely need them to.


Just think about last year in our losses. The Atlanta game--Broncos are down by 6 with something like 3 minutes to go. They get the Falcons to a 3rd and 5 and we give up 6 yards essentially then allowing them to run out the clock.


The Houston game--Again with about 3 minutes on the clock the Broncos have them with a 3rd and 5 and they pick up 12 to be able to almost run out the clock.


The New England game we definitely deserved to lose as both sides struggled in that one.


Then of course I don't have to tell any of you what happened in our playoff game.


Fast forward to this season and yes our defense has given up a bunch of points that they shouldn't. Some of that is injuries and some of that is just bad play by some of our guys. When it has really mattered though of needing a big stop they have found a way.
The Cowboys game we all know what happened in that one.
San Diego game defense stopped them on their final drive with some great pressure on Rivers.
New England game-Yes we lost this one but even with all of the injuries the Broncos stopped the bleeding and gave our offense a few chances to win it just couldn't quite come through.


I guess to me I would rather have a defense that rises up in the big situations to make a play for the team than a dominant one that cracks under pressure. Plus I am hoping our defense can finally get healthy about playoff time. Champ should be close to game shape by then, DRC should have a healthy shoulder, Moore is expected back by the AFC Championship, and hopefully Wolfe doesn't have any lingering issues with this seizure.