Just for Dad

[Anotherwvufan]

I stole this from another board, but it really gives a good explanation as to why a 7-5 season against the competition we faced can be considered a success. if you were to do the following with every team we played this year, you would find that we have more talent than only 3 or 4 of the teams on our schedule. Talent wise, this team won 3 more games than they should have!

I have always maintained that it is about the players. You can win some games with less talent and better coaching, but it is difficult to overcome more talented teams on a week by week basis.


Texas A&M - Since the 2013 class, they have had;

2 Five star players.

31 four star players.

20 ESPN top 300 players, and if you include Junior College rankings, they have had 2 JUCO top 50 players.

If you look into their more "under the radar" players, they have had;

15 'High' three star players (77-79)

2 "average" three star players (74-76)

4 "Low" rated three star players (70-73)





In 2013, they had the 8th best recruiting class in the nation, and in 2014, they had the fourth best class.



West Virginia - Since the 2013 class, they have had;

0 Five star players

14 Four star players

7 players in the ESPN 300, and if you include Junior College rankings, they have had 6 JUCO top 50 players.

If you look for the "under the radar" players;

15 "High" three star players (77-79)

12 "Average" three star players (74-76)

8 "Low" three star players (70-73)



In 2013, WVU had the 32nd ranked recruiting class, and in 2014, they had the 37th ranked recruiting class.



Let's dig deeper.

Kyle Allen was the #1 rated QB in the 2014 class, while Skyler Howard was the number 3 rated JUCO QB. (He was given a 75 grade).

Their starting offensive line all were AT LEAST 4 star players, and WVU only had 2 four star players on the offensive line.

A&M had a five star super recruit on the D-line, and he was mixed with other 4 star players. WVU DID NOT HAVE A FOUR STAR PLAYER ON THE D-LINE!!



A&M had one 5 star receivers, and five 4 four star receivers. WVU has had two 4 star receivers (Kevin White was a high three)



A&M had four 4 star D-backs. WVU had 1. (Henry)



The ONLY position that we out recruit them, is Kicker. Lambert did get sacked yesterday, though. (Poor guy, that looked like that player did that on purpose, IMO)

 

[WVUDAD]

Coaching counts for more than stars, Michigan has as many or more 5 star players as anyone, and a 3 star kid is low on the roster, yet with wrong coaches, they have floundered the last few years, ND again, a multitude of five star kids, yet fat Charlie found a way to lose. Briles took a Baylor team from being a joke to a great team, not through magically coming up with five star kids, but by great coaching of the kids he had. Take a look at Ohio State, another team with almost exclusively five star kids, Tressel won 11 games a year, Fickel coaches THE SAME KIDS to 6-6, Urban Meyer comes in and goes undefeated with the same kids, now in less time than Holgorsen has been here, Meyer has transformed the slow ass Luckeyes into one of the fastest teams in football. Great coaches can get more from a two star kid than an average coach can from a five star kid. I feel the stars are somewhat BS anyway, when a kid is looking at Marshall he is a two star kid, when Ohio State shows interest, suddenly the kid is four stars.............

 

[WVUDAD]

I stole this from another board, but it really gives a good explanation as to why a 7-5 season against the competition we faced can be considered a success. if you were to do the following with every team we played this year, you would find that we have more talent than only 3 or 4 of the teams on our schedule. Talent wise, this team won 3 more games than they should have!

I have always maintained that it is about the players. You can win some games with less talent and better coaching, but it is difficult to overcome more talented teams on a week by week basis.


Texas A&M - Since the 2013 class, they have had;

2 Five star players.

31 four star players.

20 ESPN top 300 players, and if you include Junior College rankings, they have had 2 JUCO top 50 players.

If you look into their more "under the radar" players, they have had;

15 'High' three star players (77-79)

2 "average" three star players (74-76)

4 "Low" rated three star players (70-73)





In 2013, they had the 8th best recruiting class in the nation, and in 2014, they had the fourth best class.



West Virginia - Since the 2013 class, they have had;

0 Five star players

14 Four star players

7 players in the ESPN 300, and if you include Junior College rankings, they have had 6 JUCO top 50 players.

If you look for the "under the radar" players;

15 "High" three star players (77-79)

12 "Average" three star players (74-76)

8 "Low" three star players (70-73)



In 2013, WVU had the 32nd ranked recruiting class, and in 2014, they had the 37th ranked recruiting class.



Let's dig deeper.

Kyle Allen was the #1 rated QB in the 2014 class, while Skyler Howard was the number 3 rated JUCO QB. (He was given a 75 grade).

Their starting offensive line all were AT LEAST 4 star players, and WVU only had 2 four star players on the offensive line.

A&M had a five star super recruit on the D-line, and he was mixed with other 4 star players. WVU DID NOT HAVE A FOUR STAR PLAYER ON THE D-LINE!!



A&M had one 5 star receivers, and five 4 four star receivers. WVU has had two 4 star receivers (Kevin White was a high three)



A&M had four 4 star D-backs. WVU had 1. (Henry)



The ONLY position that we out recruit them, is Kicker. Lambert did get sacked yesterday, though. (Poor guy, that looked like that player did that on purpose, IMO)

YET, with just a few more passes caught (LOTS of drops in the first half) WVU would have spanked them.

 

[bbwvfan]

YET, with just a few more passes caught (LOTS of drops in the first half) WVU would have spanked them.

EXACTLY!

That is why you cannot question the coaching… the preparation… or the development of WVU's players. WVU… despite one of its worst defensive performances of the year, came within just a few plays of spanking an A&M team loaded with talent.

 

[WVUDAD]

EXACTLY!

That is why you cannot question the coaching… the preparation… or the development of WVU's players. WVU… despite one of its worst defensive performances of the year, came within just a few plays of spanking an A&M team loaded with talent.

I am tiring of hearing WVU doesnt have talent, do you guys understand WVU football in the least? There is very little homegrown talent, it is a hard sell to get many of the big city kids to come here, it is hard to get kids here period. THAT is why Fraud was so good here, he used GREAT schemes, great conditioning, hard work, and motivation to get that two star kid you guys malign playing at a four star level. As Ive stated many times, conditioning and motivation are what I see lacking on WVU's team, not talent, we have as much talent today as we will ever have, as much as weve ever had. We will never see WVU with five star kids all over the roster, so great innovative coaching is the key to winning. The difference between a two star and four star kid is the coaching he has had to that point more than any special skills the kid has, yes there are those five star kids who run like the wind, which cant be taught, but tackling, blocking, ball handling, schemes, decisions, and attitude CAN be taught.

 

[mad2mc]

YET, with just a few more passes caught (LOTS of drops in the first half) WVU would have spanked them.

You mean passes that could be caught but after stating that I was throwing Skyler under the bus, you are making an attempt to not be a hypocrite. The only drops that I remember commenting on that should have been caught was 1 to White and the other to, I believe, Alford in the end zone. How were these guys going to catch balls nowhere near them?

 

[bbwvfan]

I am tiring of hearing WVU doesnt have talent, do you guys understand WVU football in the least? There is very little homegrown talent, it is a hard sell to get many of the big city kids to come here, it is hard to get kids here period. THAT is why Fraud was so good here, he used GREAT schemes, great conditioning, hard work, and motivation to get that two star kid you guys malign playing at a four star level. As Ive stated many times, conditioning and motivation are what I see lacking on WVU's team, not talent, we have as much talent today as we will ever have, as much as weve ever had. We will never see WVU with five star kids all over the roster, so great innovative coaching is the key to winning. The difference between a two star and four star kid is the coaching he has had to that point more than any special skills the kid has, yes there are those five star kids who run like the wind, which cant be taught, but tackling, blocking, ball handling, schemes, decisions, and attitude CAN be taught.

DAD,

Did you catch the Big 12 All-Conference selections by the different sources… media… coaches…?

All-Big 12 Football Awards Announced - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

WVU had 4 players listed on the 1st and 2nd teams. KU had the same number. TCU had 11. And, WVU came within a last second FG of beating them…

Pretty telling…. WVU had some of the weakest numbers/players selected of all 10 schools. I know your sick of hearing WVU doesn't have talent, but it doesn't have the same kind of talent as our new rivals in the Big 12. And, it certainly didn't have as much talent as our opponent last night.

You love your 2 stars.

But, rosters full of 4 and 5 stars going beat that 2 star line-up the majority of the time.

Rich won with 2 and 3 stars when he competed against other teams loaded with 2 and 3 star talent.

 

[WVUDAD]

DAD,

Did you catch the Big 12 All-Conference selections by the different sources… media… coaches…?

All-Big 12 Football Awards Announced - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

WVU had 4 players listed on the 1st and 2nd teams. KU had the same number. TCU had 11. And, WVU came within a last second FG of beating them…

Pretty telling…. WVU had some of the weakest numbers/players selected of all 10 schools. I know your sick of hearing WVU doesn't have talent, but it doesn't have the same kind of talent as our new rivals in the Big 12. And, it certainly didn't have as much talent as our opponent last night.

You love your 2 stars.

But, rosters full of 4 and 5 stars going beat that 2 star line-up the majority of the time.

Rich won with 2 and 3 stars when he competed against other teams loaded with 2 and 3 star talent.

Huh, strange how things change, so UGA, Miami, VPI, Oklahoma, auburn, etc had no talent?????? There are MAYBE ten teams made of the kind of talent that you are trying to say even Kansas has, what a crock of shit.

 

[bbwvfan]

Huh, strange how things change, so UGA, Miami, VPI, Oklahoma, auburn, etc had no talent?????? There are MAYBE ten teams made of the kind of talent that you are trying to say even Kansas has, what a crock of shit.

I have no idea what your point is here.

I get the crock of shit comment, but none of the rest...

 

[GoldRusher]

DAD,

Did you catch the Big 12 All-Conference selections by the different sources… media… coaches…?

All-Big 12 Football Awards Announced - Big 12 Conference - Official Athletic Site

WVU had 4 players listed on the 1st and 2nd teams. KU had the same number. TCU had 11.

Pretty telling…. WVU had some of the weakest numbers/players selected of all 10 schools. I know your sick of hearing WVU doesn't have talent, but it doesn't have the same kind of talent as our new rivals in the Big 12.

.

What year is this for DH now?
Telling indeed...

 

[bbwvfan]

What year is this for DH now?
Telling indeed...

Certainly he is responsible for his recruiting classes. Should be interesting to see what the list of WVU players on future all-conference teams looks like.

To be fair to Dana, that will be telling.

How many of the all-conference players were Stewart's recruits? Telling indeed...

 

[GoldRusher]

Certainly he is responsible for his recruiting classes. Should be interesting to see what the list of WVU players on future all-conference teams looks like.

To be fair to Dana, that will be telling.

..

That's one of my big concerns moving forward, I'm not sure where those names will come from.

QB? Howard? Crest? Millard? The new recruits at the most important position are a 3 star kid that had/has a load of potential and had an offer from USCw in the 7th grade but has since dropped in the ratings and is a 3 star guy,not bad but... Another is a kid that has one P5 level offer,(if memory serves ) , us. I HOPE it works out great but, not hard to imagine a scenario where things don't get a lot better at QB.

WR?
OL?
PR?
DL?

I think the DB's could be special, the LB's and RB's could be good as well. Still have a bunch of holes though.

 

[bbwvfan]

It should be a concern.

As WVU is no longer competing against like teams, it needs to improve its effort in recruiting and developing players.

Which is exactly what Dana has put in place. He knows he isn't going to get a ton of 4 stars, but if he can get his squad up to full strength in numbers, he can redshirt kids… get them in the weight room, and coach them up.

By the time they are RS Jr's and RS Sr's… they should be able to compete at a higher level than what we've seen in the last 3 years.

Look at the kids who made the all-conference list this year, how many of them were projected to be on it pre-season? That is development…

 

[WVUDAD]

Certainly he is responsible for his recruiting classes. Should be interesting to see what the list of WVU players on future all-conference teams looks like.

To be fair to Dana, that will be telling.

How many of the all-conference players were Stewart's recruits? Telling indeed...

Again with that crap, like I said, look at Ohio State Meyer has been there less time than your buddy has been here, and he has in that time transformed them from one of the slowest teams to one of the fastest, in year four Holgorsen doesn't even have one QB that can run his offense and your trying to still blame a previous coach.

 

[mad2mc]

Only you would compare Meyer's coaching abilities to a 3rd year HC. Brilliant!

 

[wvu_man]

Dad...In all fairness, it would be easier for Urban Meyer to "transform" his players than it would be for DH. I know your stance on ranking recruits but you can't argue that Meyer has a LOT more to work with year in and year out because he coaches at tOSU. Actually, Meyer has it pretty good. The best athletes flock to him because of the school name. DH & Co. has to sway, argue, convince good athletes to come to WVU. I'm sure recruiting is really tough for us and others like us

 

[mad2mc]

You just compared a longtime proven HC to a 3rd year HC. You want WVU to deep at every position, have all those 4 & 5 star players like the Buckeyes where the next man up saying actually applies. Meyer's hardly has to coach up many players because he has those 5 star players you call Prima Donnas. You say you rather have the 2 star players and you have that right now, but choose to bitch about it and blame a first time HC. When a player isn't fighting for his job, he usually does not have that fear of being replace; therefore, he does not improve and neither does the team.

So based on this post, you understand what the Quartet has been stating all along. I will not speak for the other 3, but the way I see it, DH is doing the best with what he's got. His staff finally filled a recruiting class and still has to fill some key positions. The team does not have depth, but has some talent at some positions and finding a QB will be important for 2015. He has to fill another coaching position on his staff and will hopefully find a ST coach as well. He still has growing to do and has already demonstrated this by his run vs pass numbers. The HC is not the only person who motivates a team. He is a key component but he also has Assts who are responsible in getting their units ready to play on a weekly bases.

I've seen what DH can do with talent on offense (Orange Bowl); I've seen improvement at with Tricett this year (hopefully the same will occur in 2015); the defense has done well this year and has greatly improved this year but still has depth issues; special teams - kicking game is good with Lambert, punt/kick return game needs help, punting game needs help.

Welcome to the dark side.

 

[GoldRusher]

It should be a concern.

As WVU is no longer competing against like teams, it needs to improve its effort in recruiting and developing players.

Which is exactly what Dana has put in place. He knows he isn't going to get a ton of 4 stars, but if he can get his squad up to full strength in numbers, he can redshirt kids… get them in the weight room, and coach them up.

By the time they are RS Jr's and RS Sr's… they should be able to compete at a higher level than what we've seen in the last 3 years.

Look at the kids who made the all-conference list this year, how many of them were projected to be on it pre-season? That is development…

Good points, I think next year is going to be a make or break type of year for DH. I WANT him to put one of those "special" seasons together, I think it would do wonders for this fan base and his support long term. That said, I know for a fact that there are a few influential people that are starting to sour on him and now with the AD switch he doesn't have that connection of being the new AD's "guy" so I'm not sure how even a solid long term plan is going to work for him now.

There has been talk of an extension for him in the offseason, if we see that then he may be in great shape but if we don't hear about one then... I'm afraid the heat will be on high come September '15 fair or no and he may not get to see the fruits of his labor. I agree, he has guided the program in a better direction as far as recruiting and facilities ect.. But I think the results (meaning diciplined play and prob 9+wins) need to begin getting better rather quickly or someone else may take credit for the work he has done.

 

[bbwvfan]

Again with that crap, like I said, look at Ohio State Meyer has been there less time than your buddy has been here, and he has in that time transformed them from one of the slowest teams to one of the fastest, in year four Holgorsen doesn't even have one QB that can run his offense and your trying to still blame a previous coach.

You know what happens when I look at tOSU? I see that Meyer has tons of talent on his team. A bunch of players who will leave tOSU and play in the NFL.

Please honor my request... provide me the list of DL Stewart recruited. BTW... add the list of QB's he recruited... they would be Sr's or RS Jr's... helping depth issues this year.

 

[bbwvfan]

Good points, I think next year is going to be a make or break type of year for DH. I WANT him to put one of those "special" seasons together, I think it would do wonders for this fan base and his support long term. That said, I know for a fact that there are a few influential people that are starting to sour on him and now with the AD switch he doesn't have that connection of being the new AD's "guy" so I'm not sure how even a solid long term plan is going to work for him now.

There has been talk of an extension for him in the offseason, if we see that then he may be in great shape but if we don't hear about one then... I'm afraid the heat will be on high come September '15 fair or no and he may not get to see the fruits of his labor. I agree, he has guided the program in a better direction as far as recruiting and facilities ect.. But I think the results (meaning diciplined play and prob 9+wins) need to begin getting better rather quickly or someone else may take credit for the work he has done.

You may be right.

I have no say in the decision process. I have my feelings about what is going on, but they matter not.

IMO, WVU fans are a fickle bunch. If Dana wins, they'll jump on the bandwagon. If he does not win, he should be fired, and the split fanbase will have its haters content.

I don't believe WVU will ever be a dominant player in its new conference. Just as we saw under Nehlen back in the old BE days, once every 4 or 5 years WVU will have a veteran group capable of competing against schools loaded with more talent.

IMO, Dana's teams have played better than the talent on it, which proves to me how well he has done. The jump Clint made... Alford... White... was nothing short of amazing.

Bradley and the defense took a big hit in the Liberty Bowl. Very disappointing...