Judge for Yourselves, Part II: Secondary

[broncosmitty]

Atleast bullpens are easy to fix. Couple minor leaguers will get you an arm that's decent. Dont have that luxury in football. We're going to sign shitbirds that other teams cut and pretend they'll be capable of doing the job.

 

[themuzzer]

Atleast bullpens are easy to fix. Couple minor leaguers will get you an arm that's decent. Dont have that luxury in football. We're going to sign shitbirds that other teams cut and pretend they'll be capable of doing the job.

Yup, and now I feel good knowing someone else gets it.

 

[themuzzer]

Heck most of the stats some people are digging up from years past include Delmas....Well he's not hear anymore and we didn't get better there....When healthy he was plenty good enough, money dictated why he's not here anymore.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Yup, and now I feel good knowing someone else gets it.

Hey now -- I've been screaming that for how long now.

When your best CB last year was a 33 year old signed off the street after being released by Jacksonville -- You have big time issues.

 

[themuzzer]

Hey now -- I've been screaming that for how long now.

When your best CB last year was a 33 year old signed off the street after being released by Jacksonville -- You have big time issues.

And I've been right here screaming the same thing.

 

[broncosmitty]

Heck most of the stats some people are digging up from years past include Delmas....Well he's not hear anymore and we didn't get better there....When healthy he was plenty good enough, money dictated why he's not here anymore.

It had better have been money. If they plan on somebody else making picks Id sure like to know who it's gonna be.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I don't think Delmas' career average of 1.2 INTs per season, or his career high of 3 INTs, will be all that hard to replace.

As an added bonus our other DBs/LBs no longer have to worry about getting speared in the helmet by the human missile as he flies past the guy he was actually trying to tackle, arms tucked tight to his side so he doesn't accidentally wrap up the ball carrier by mistake.

The guy was talented to be sure, but he had the proverbial $.10 head. He was too worried about talking trash and laying the huge hits...

 

[Old Lion]

Delmas wont be missed. Digs is a better fit for this defense and wont give up the big plays everyone whines about which many were on Delmas's hands.


We need CBs for sure. We will find out this year soon if actually have any as they wont be on the bench anymore watching Houston give up big play after big play.

 

[Naughtymax]

I have to say that the PFF gradings regularly make me shake my head.

So, Detroit last year was 16th in total defense by yardage, 15th in points allowed. Almost exactly middle-of-the-pack. They were best at not allowing third downs to be converted, which is interesting. 23rd in pass defense, 6th in rush defense.

Now, against top offensive teams: They played Green Bay twice(but only once with Rodgers), Chicago twice, and Philly once last year. Gave up 317 yards and 250 yards to vajayJay, 274 to Rodgers, and 179 to Nick Foles becuase Shady was running for over 200.

Overall a bit worse than their average 247 yards per game, but probably to be expected against the better passing offenses.

What do I think? I think I want to examine the D last year in 3 areas - DL, LB, and secondary. The DL was good, the LB corps was good, and something has to explain the rest.

Football Outsiders gave overall front 7 ratings showing adusted DL rates agains the run and pass, ranking between how well the team defended near the line and in the open field. Detroit was 2nd in near-scrimmage defense and 29th in open-field defense. That says to me that opposing offensive co-ordinators saw our weakness as our secondary and exploited it.

So, overall I'd say the secondary wasn't very good. Bottom-12 but not bottom-5 unit. This year I expect more of the same since we only really drafted Van Noy as a guy who could contribute on defense year 1, and signed nobody in free agency. I think we also need to find a way to have the offense stay on the field a bit longer on drives so the defense gets more rest in 2014, because I friggin hate our depth on that side of the ball.

 

[broncosmitty]

I don't think Delmas' career average of 1.2 INTs per season, or his career high of 3 INTs, will be all that hard to replace.

As an added bonus our other DBs/LBs no longer have to worry about getting speared in the helmet by the human missile as he flies past the guy he was actually trying to tackle, arms tucked tight to his side so he doesn't accidentally wrap up the ball carrier by mistake.

The guy was talented to be sure, but he had the proverbial $.10 head. He was too worried about talking trash and laying the huge hits...

Who's getting 3 picks from the group back there?

 

[Quackerjacked]

Ihedhgibo? Had three interceptions in his one year as a starter so I think he should be on par with Delmad in the turnover department. I actually think he is going to be an overall upgrade. Delmas has better coverage skills but jumped short routes too often as a deep coverage safety. He took gamble but didn't get enough interceptions to make up for the big plays that will result in.

I think the defense will be fine this year. I see an upgrade albeit slight at safety and an upgrade on scheme. I also see upgrade by subtraction with Houston. Also added what should be a versatile linebacker. I don't think they are going to be dominant and a loss or two will be squarely on their shoulders, but as with last year of our offense can actually produce we well win a lot of games.

 

[Howie115]

The DL was good, the LB corps was good, and something has to explain the rest.

The DL was good at stopping the run. At pressuring/sacking the QB, they stunk, though part of that was Gunther's never-ever-ever-ever-ever blitz scheme.

 

[gandydancer]

Wait, why are we having this discussion? I was told it was offensive woes and turnovers from last year. Then I stated those woes covered up the woes of the secondary... I screamed for a S first then on the Gilbert train until the draft. Still would not matter though, at least this year, rookies contibute squat from CB position early. The cap hell the Lions are in keeps them from any top tier CB FA. Pick one up and draft early CB and develope him.

Ibedijho** is a stop gap guy at S. 4th and 5th round gems like Sherman are hard to find. Hawks got lucky. Starting CB that shutdown their side are early picks not 5'9" 4th or a guy with 81" span UDFA.

The 4 mill to Tate does not equal what a stud CB gets. It could have went towards a stud. Course cap restraints can't extra money. Although I still like Tate pickup.

 

[gandydancer]

The DL was good at stopping the run. At pressuring/sacking the QB, they stunk, though part of that was Gunther's never-ever-ever-ever-ever blitz scheme.

I spoke of Austin not having a vanilla scheme. He seems to be about pressure. It should help in pressure dept. Sacks/hurries/knockdowns... again then if the secondary stats look better does it really truly mean the guys on roster are better or just one area (DL)covers up a issue elsewhere (CB). Still not sold that one of the 3 year guys at CB is "THE" one. We surely are about to find out.

 

[tpaulus_2]

So, overall I'd say the secondary wasn't very good. Bottom-12 but not bottom-5 unit.

Exactly. 10 out of 10.

Not the best by a long shot, but not one of the worst, either. Seems simple enough to me...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Who's getting 3 picks from the group back there?

Glover Quin? He had 3 picks last year.

Maybe James Ihedigbo- he also had three picks last year.

Slay is also a good bet to get at least 3 in the new system.


Idk why Delmas is being put on such a pedestal here? His production never lived up to his talent. We got a good run out of him, but his best years are in the rear-view with his knees the way they are.

 

[Howie115]

I spoke of Austin not having a vanilla scheme. He seems to be about pressure. It should help in pressure dept. Sacks/hurries/knockdowns... again then if the secondary stats look better does it really truly mean the guys on roster are better or just one area (DL)covers up a issue elsewhere (CB). Still not sold that one of the 3 year guys at CB is "THE" one. We surely are about to find out.

Yes, we are. Great cover corners give the D-coordinator a lot more flexibility, and you can certainly play safe and rush only four guys more often when you have one. But there are only a handful in the NFL. Lacking one, you absolutely have to do some blitzing and stunting.

 

[tpaulus_2]

The DL was good at stopping the run. At pressuring/sacking the QB, they stunk, though part of that was Gunther's never-ever-ever-ever-ever blitz scheme.

Schwartz's never-ever-ever blitz scheme. Gunther was just a figure-head running Jimmy's defense when he was the DC in KC he blitzed a ton...

 

[Howie115]

Schwartz's never-ever-ever blitz scheme. Gunther was just a figure-head running Jimmy's defense when he was the DC in KC he blitzed a ton...

If you say so. All I know is it was painful to watch opposing QBs setting up camp back there, and the D only blitzing one or two times a game. There's a happy medium, for sure. You have to blitz enough so that when you bring guys up to "show" it only, at least the THREAT is there that you'll actually do it.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Ihedhgibo? Had three interceptions in his one year as a starter so I think he should be on par with Delmad in the turnover department. I actually think he is going to be an overall upgrade. Delmas has better coverage skills but jumped short routes too often as a deep coverage safety. He took gamble but didn't get enough interceptions to make up for the big plays that will result in.

No offense, but the 3 interceptions for Ihedbigo in 2013 were his 1st 3 in the NFL and he has been in the league since 2007, I believe.

It also wasn't his first time being a starter. He started the majority of the season for NE, but was benched due to poor play (the one NE fan who post on this board every so often is the one who told us about that). That same NE fan also pointed out that Ihedbigo was terrible in pass coverage, finishing the season with 1 pass defensed. I just looked up Ihedbigo's stats and prior to 2013, he had 2 total passes defensed with 0 interceptions and 1 FF.

So while he may fill in admirably for a year -- those expecting to see a guy put up 100+ tackles with 3 interceptions and double digit pass defenses are more than likely asking WAY too much out of the guy.

One thing I will say about Ihedbigo -- he is built like an absolute tank. He looks like a body builder in some of the pics they had posted of him without a shirt on.