Jason La Canfora's 2019 (way-too-early) NFL playoff predictions.

[Shanemansj13]

Agreed...though guys drafted by the last regime were called busts by many who were picked later than Corbett and actually did make some plays as rookies. I've even heard many call Nassib and Shoebert busts at various times.

Nassib is a depth guy at this point. He could be a reliable guy in the future but he was taken late bc he was a project, that is understandable.

Schobert is a starter, he isn't the perfect starter and has his weaknesses but he turned out to be a great value pick for a 4th rounder. Depending on how Wilson and Takitaki turn out though he could be fighting for his position over the next year. All are talented players, only time will tell.

 

[Across The Field]

Agreed...though guys drafted by the last regime were called busts by many who were picked later than Corbett and actually did make some plays as rookies. I've even heard many call Nassib and Shoebert busts at various times.

I can't say I've heard anyone call Nassib or Schobert "busts", per se. However, I think Nassib was expendable based on how he had played in his first two years in Cleveland. I know we had this discussion ad nauseum, so no need to go further into it, but it wasn't as if they gave up on some generational pass rusher. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's hard to think Chad Thomas can't produce 2-3 sacks a year playing rotational snaps like Nassib did.

Schobert has certainly not been a bust, but I think it was apparent by the draft that they're not set on extending him. This is a pivotal year for him. When Steve Wilks was in Carolina, he utilized two super athletic LBs to build an elite defense in Kuechley and Thomas Davis. Schobert could be that guy, but he has to clean up his tackling technique. Honestly, I'm extremely excited to see what Wilson can do back there. He could end up being a starter by year's end, depending on how things shake out. It wouldn't shock me to see Schobert moved during the season if Wilson plays to his ability.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I can't say I've heard anyone call Nassib or Schobert "busts", per se. However, I think Nassib was expendable based on how he had played in his first two years in Cleveland. I know we had this discussion ad nauseum, so no need to go further into it, but it wasn't as if they gave up on some generational pass rusher. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's hard to think Chad Thomas can't produce 2-3 sacks a year playing rotational snaps like Nassib did.

Schobert has certainly not been a bust, but I think it was apparent by the draft that they're not set on extending him. This is a pivotal year for him. When Steve Wilks was in Carolina, he utilized two super athletic LBs to build an elite defense in Kuechley and Thomas Davis. Schobert could be that guy, but he has to clean up his tackling technique. Honestly, I'm extremely excited to see what Wilson can do back there. He could end up being a starter by year's end, depending on how things shake out. It wouldn't shock me to see Schobert moved during the season if Wilson plays to his ability.

Right and the Wilson-Taktaki picks had to do with talent and potential but also cap. Both those guys are going to be on tiny rookie contracts. They are hoping one of those guys works out so they don't have to pay Schobert $10-14M a year. They have other big name players to worry about signing in the future: Randall, Garrett, Ward, Mayfield, Njoku, etc.

 

[dtgold88]

Nassib is a depth guy at this point. He could be a reliable guy in the future but he was taken late bc he was a project, that is understandable.

Schobert is a starter, he isn't the perfect starter and has his weaknesses but he turned out to be a great value pick for a 4th rounder. Depending on how Wilson and Takitaki turn out though he could be fighting for his position over the next year. All are talented players, only time will tell.

Have to assume they have talked contract with shoebert. Could be in their opinion he wants too much.

I agree with your assessment of both players. I do recall hearing from many in a Browns' group they were busts, which is absurd.

 

[Across The Field]

Right and the Wilson-Taktaki picks had to do with talent and potential but also cap. Both those guys are going to be on tiny rookie contracts. They are hoping one of those guys works out so they don't have to pay Schobert $10-14M a year. They have other big name players to worry about signing in the future: Randall, Garrett, Ward, Mayfield, Njoku, etc.

A dream scenario would be if Wilson and Takitaki both manage to become above-average starters over the next 4 years and we can shed Schobert (likely going to command over $10m a year) and Christian Kirksey (between $8-10m per year over the next 3 years) after this season. If we went forward with Takitaki, Wilson, and Avery with our DL, it could work out extremely well. Spend the big dollars on Garrett, Ward, and Randall while riding out 3 super cheap yet effective LBs on a team that might not necessarily need elite defenders if the offense pans out.

 

[dtgold88]

I can't say I've heard anyone call Nassib or Schobert "busts", per se. However, I think Nassib was expendable based on how he had played in his first two years in Cleveland. I know we had this discussion ad nauseum, so no need to go further into it, but it wasn't as if they gave up on some generational pass rusher. Hindsight is always 20/20, and it's hard to think Chad Thomas can't produce 2-3 sacks a year playing rotational snaps like Nassib did.

Schobert has certainly not been a bust, but I think it was apparent by the draft that they're not set on extending him. This is a pivotal year for him. When Steve Wilks was in Carolina, he utilized two super athletic LBs to build an elite defense in Kuechley and Thomas Davis. Schobert could be that guy, but he has to clean up his tackling technique. Honestly, I'm extremely excited to see what Wilson can do back there. He could end up being a starter by year's end, depending on how things shake out. It wouldn't shock me to see Schobert moved during the season if Wilson plays to his ability.

As mentioned, didn't hear it from this group. Just Browns' fans in general in another forum who ripped pretty much any move they made.

The idea any 3rd or 4th rounder who can be a rotational player could be a bust is absurd. Especially when these same people (not you) will take a wait and see approach on a 2nd rounder..

 

[Shanemansj13]

A dream scenario would be if Wilson and Takitaki both manage to become above-average starters over the next 4 years and we can shed Schobert (likely going to command over $10m a year) and Christian Kirksey (between $8-10m per year over the next 3 years) after this season. If we went forward with Takitaki, Wilson, and Avery with our DL, it could work out extremely well. Spend the big dollars on Garrett, Ward, and Randall while riding out 3 super cheap yet effective LBs on a team that might not necessarily need elite defenders if the offense pans out.

I agree and Kirksey wont be a FA till 2022 so they even have time with him. Going to be interesting to see how these rookies pan out.

 

[Across The Field]

As mentioned, didn't hear it from this group. Just Browns' fans in general in another forum who ripped pretty much any move they made.

The idea any 3rd or 4th rounder who can be a rotational player could be a bust is absurd. Especially when these same people (not you) will take a wait and see approach on a 2nd rounder..

Couldn't agree with you more. I think it's impossible to call anyone drafted outside of the top 65-70 picks a bust, especially if they ever actually see the field for a meaningful amount of time.

 

[Across The Field]

I agree and Kirksey wont be a FA till 2022 so they even have time with him. Going to be interesting to see how these rookies pan out.

True, but at a bit of a premium. His dead cap space drops from $10.6m this year to $2.4m next year if he's cut, and unless he has some elite season this year, I can easily see them move on from him. He rated 46.0 on PFF last year, 85th overall among LBs. You can duplicate that effort from a rookie or FA.

 

[dtgold88]

Right and the Wilson-Taktaki picks had to do with talent and potential but also cap. Both those guys are going to be on tiny rookie contracts. They are hoping one of those guys works out so they don't have to pay Schobert $10-14M a year. They have other big name players to worry about signing in the future: Randall, Garrett, Ward, Mayfield, Njoku, etc.

Don't disagree at all, but don't kid yourself...if he drafted Shoebert he'd be resigned.

 

[dtgold88]

True, but at a bit of a premium. His dead cap space drops from $10.6m this year to $2.4m next year if he's cut, and unless he has some elite season this year, I can easily see them move on from him. He rated 46.0 on PFF last year, 85th overall among LBs. You can duplicate that effort from a rookie or FA.

I do hope either Dorsey has learned from his mistakes in KC when it comes to the cap or he listens to guys who do understand it better than he does.

 

[Across The Field]

I do hope either Dorsey has learned from his mistakes in KC when it comes to the cap or he listens to guys who do understand it better than he does.

I've got to be honest, I'm having trouble finding these situations where Dorsey screwed them over so bad. The only big contracts that were bad deals I can see he left them with are Berry (who is gone now) and Eric Fisher (who actually turned into a really good T by last year, and he only just turned 28 earlier this year).

 

[dtgold88]

I've got to be honest, I'm having trouble finding these situations where Dorsey screwed them over so bad. The only big contracts that were bad deals I can see he left them with are Berry (who is gone now) and Eric Fisher (who actually turned into a really good T by last year, and he only just turned 28 earlier this year).

signed Bowe for 5 years, $55 mil. Duverany-Turaf for 5 years, 41 mil. Also let go of cap guru Trip MacCracken

 

[Across The Field]

signed Bowe for 5 years, $55 mil. Duverany-Turaf for 5 years, 41 mil. Also let go of cap guru Trip MacCracken

To be fair, Bowe had all the looks of an up and coming top end WR. He had 15 TD catches alone in 2010, and back-to-back 1,100+ yard years in 2010-2011. He got hurt in 2012, which hurt his numbers a bit, but on a team that was otherwise bereft of receiving talent, it wasn't the most outlandish deal. Of course looking back, it didn't pan out, but there are tons of WR contracts that don't end up panning out. At the time he was signed, though, it made sense.

LDT was the top pass-blocker on the Chiefs at the time he signed his deal, and in 2017 he was undoubtedly one of the top guards in the NFL, both against the run and the pass. He got hurt last year, but it was a bone break, so it should heal fine. I don't think that's a horrible deal.

 

[dtgold88]

To be fair, Bowe had all the looks of an up and coming top end WR. He had 15 TD catches alone in 2010, and back-to-back 1,100+ yard years in 2010-2011. He got hurt in 2012, which hurt his numbers a bit, but on a team that was otherwise bereft of receiving talent, it wasn't the most outlandish deal. Of course looking back, it didn't pan out, but there are tons of WR contracts that don't end up panning out. At the time he was signed, though, it made sense.

LDT was the top pass-blocker on the Chiefs at the time he signed his deal, and in 2017 he was undoubtedly one of the top guards in the NFL, both against the run and the pass. He got hurt last year, but it was a bone break, so it should heal fine. I don't think that's a horrible deal.

Fair points. But if a GM someone did not like made the same moves they'd get ripped for it. IMO (and not saying you) too many fans will base their opinions more on the guy who made the move than the actual move.

I think Dorsey is like most GMs...has made some good moves and some mistakes. I do think his positive moves in KC have been a little overblown as it's pretty much Kelce, Mahomes and guys he took risks on (Peters, Hunt and Hill). Looks like the risky players might all be gone.

All that said, I do like him and the work he's done here so far.

For the love of God, can September come already!!

 

[Clayton]

I've got to be honest, I'm having trouble finding these situations where Dorsey screwed them over so bad. The only big contracts that were bad deals I can see he left them with are Berry (who is gone now) and Eric Fisher (who actually turned into a really good T by last year, and he only just turned 28 earlier this year).

Having Jamaal Charles injured all of the time, then Justin Houston injured all of the time, then Eric Berry injured all of the time was a fairly rough stretch.

Ultimately Dorsey is going to be judged by what the Browns do from here on out. Thats his legacy. Veach's fingerprints are all over the Chiefs right now so its pretty much his team at this point.

 

[Across The Field]

Fair points. But if a GM someone did not like made the same moves they'd get ripped for it. IMO (and not saying you) too many fans will base their opinions more on the guy who made the move than the actual move.

I think Dorsey is like most GMs...has made some good moves and some mistakes. I do think his positive moves in KC have been a little overblown as it's pretty much Kelce, Mahomes and guys he took risks on (Peters, Hunt and Hill). Looks like the risky players might all be gone.

All that said, I do like him and the work he's done here so far.

For the love of God, can September come already!!

I think all GMs get ripped for the bad moves, it just comes with the territory. However, Dorsey seems to have made many more good moves than bad. It's hard to say the guy doesn't have a keen eye for talent, even if he's willing to overlook some character issues (even though Hunt didn't have any coming into the NFL, just some weight issues that he overcame at Toledo).

I think he's done more than that in KC. He drafted Kelce in the mid-rounds and he's now arguably the best TE in the NFL. Mahomes was looked at with a lot of mixed feelings, but Dorsey saw in him enough to trade up for him and he's now the reigning MVP. Hill and Hunt were major parts to the team before they were let go (or presumably yet to be let go). There was also Chris Jones, LDT, Dee Ford, Steven Nelson, and while Eric Fisher was a bust at first, he's got his feet under him and is a Pro Bowl OT.

One of my favorite stories of him is back in 1995 when he was with Green Bay as a scout. He pounded the table during the draft for GM Ron Wolf to draft a relative no-name running back out of Georgia. He didn't, and later the Broncos wound up drafting him. That was Terrell Davis.

 

[Across The Field]

Having Jamaal Charles injured all of the time, then Justin Houston injured all of the time, then Eric Berry injured all of the time was a fairly rough stretch.

Ultimately Dorsey is going to be judged by what the Browns do from here on out. Thats his legacy. Veach's fingerprints are all over the Chiefs right now so its pretty much his team at this point.

Almost every major impact player from the Chiefs team last year was from Dorsey.

 

[dtgold88]

Almost every major impact player from the Chiefs team last year was from Dorsey.

Seems like Mahomes was much or more Reid and Veech than Dorsey.

Have to say dumping McCracken seems like an odd move. Glad he saw value in Paul D here.

 

[Clayton]

Almost every major impact player from the Chiefs team last year was from Dorsey.

What does that have to do with anything?

Most of the Dorsey influence is gone next year outside of Kelce, Jones and the oline.