Jadeveon Clowney: Didn't we already draft him?

[Caynine29]

This is to all of you Clowney Nay Sayers.....

You tend to forget. There is a VERY GOOD CHANCE that Chris Long could be a CAP casualty next year. How long has he been on this team now?? What, only 8.5 sacks last year?? How many did Quinn have??

You got to take in consideration his contract. He is under contract through 2016. This year (in 2014) CL is scheduled to make a whopping $14,900,000(yes, that millions). Only 2nd highest behind SAMMY. Sure he took a pay cut last year (by restructuring) in order to help the team. So yes he will be rewarded in 2014 for doing so. In 2015 he is scheduled to make $11,500,000, in 2016- $13,250,000. So yes... this year he is the 2nd HIGHEST paid guy on the team.

You gotta ask yourself, do you think he is he really worth this in 2015(no way we cut him this year)?? Oh and don't forget the guy on the other side of the line(Quinn) is going to need a new contract next year as well. So IMO (which in case I don't believe any of you care to hear) Les Snead will strongly consider Chris Long a CAP casualty at the end of 2014. Yep that's right, there is a VERY GOOD CHANCE that CL could be CUT at this seasons end. Don't believe me? Look at his CAP numbers.

2014- CAP# hit = $14,900,000, dead money=$17,900,000 (no way we cut him this year)
2015- CAP# hit = $11,500,000, dead money=$3,000,000 (cap savings of $8,500,000) could be used to pay Quinn
2016- CAP# hit=$13,250,000, dead money=$1,500,000 (he will definitely be cut by this time)

So that my fellow RAM buddies if we draft CLowney, or any DE for that matter, could be CL's replacement.

I'm not necessarily nay-saying Clowney, as a player. I think Clowney is a great prospect. If I truly believed he was a once in a generation player, I'd be more inclined to lean his way. But, I just don't see it. We're just not in the position to start drafting backups and replacements for effective players because they might be gone in a couple years. There are still too many holes to fill where there's simply nobody of value right now. I mean... who would you rather replace? Chris Long at DE... or Rodney McCleod at FS?

We're in year 3 of the Fisher era. This is supposed to be "the year" we turn the corner. We're not the Seahawks. We're not the 49ers. We're not the team that can use first rounders on projects, depth, or future use. The two first round picks in this year's draft have got to count for this year. You can't start fortifying a team that isn't complete yet... and we're NOT complete.

And I realize the ramifications of Long's looming contract. It's actually a very interesting that you raise that point, considering the post you responded to.

Back in '08 Steven Jackson was in the same position of potential cap casualty after the following season, as well. But, you wouldn't have considered drafting Darren McFadden to potentially replace him, would you? Back then, just like right now, there were other more pressing team needs. One of them being DE. That's why going with Long back then made much more sense than considering Clowney today.

 

[Retroram52]

And the Steven Jackson scenario worked out for everyone as his career is pretty much done. Not so for C. Long. He is entering his prime and his leadership intangibles in some cases carry more weight than just sacks. Everyone is always clamoring for the Rams to bring in vets to guide all the youngsters.

You have one in C. Long and some posters are already getting rid of him. I say, some you fellas are a bit bored and chompin' on the bit for the draft. It'll be here soon enough. You are absolutely spot on Caynine. We have other holes that desparately need filled than to be loading up on "players of the century". Besides, isn't there one of these nearly every draft?

 

[jacobarch]

And the Steven Jackson scenario worked out for everyone as his career is pretty much done. Not so for C. Long. He is entering his prime and his leadership intangibles in some cases carry more weight than just sacks. Everyone is always clamoring for the Rams to bring in vets to guide all the youngsters.

You have one in C. Long and some posters are already getting rid of him. I say, some you fellas are a bit bored and chompin' on the bit for the draft. It'll be here soon enough. You are absolutely spot on Caynine. We have other holes that desparately need filled than to be loading up on "players of the century". Besides, isn't there one of these nearly every draft?

to add to it. No one was calling Clowney "player of the century" before his combine and pro day workouts. How many guys have we seen over the years that are insane workout warriors flunk out of the NFL. Everyone is crowning this guy with a walk in Canton without even taking a snap in the NFL. Drives me nuts

 

[Red_Chaos]

27 days and counting...

 

[Caynine29]

You have one in C. Long and some posters are already getting rid of him. I say, some you fellas are a bit bored and chompin' on the bit for the draft. It'll be here soon enough. You are absolutely spot on Caynine. We have other holes that desparately need filled than to be loading up on "players of the century". Besides, isn't there one of these nearly every draft?

In fairness (and I could be mistaken), I don't think zeke2829 necessarily wants to get rid of Chris Long. I think he's just making the counter-point as to why drafting Clowney is indeed a possibility.

 

[Red_Chaos]

In fairness (and I could be mistaken), I don't think zeke2829 necessarily wants to get rid of Chris Long. I think he's just making the counter-point as to why drafting Clowney is indeed a possibility.

why can't the owner just open his pocket book a bit more

 

[zeke2829]

And the Steven Jackson scenario worked out for everyone as his career is pretty much done. Not so for C. Long. He is entering his prime and his leadership intangibles in some cases carry more weight than just sacks. Everyone is always clamoring for the Rams to bring in vets to guide all the youngsters.

You have one in C. Long and some posters are already getting rid of him. I say, some you fellas are a bit bored and chompin' on the bit for the draft. It'll be here soon enough. You are absolutely spot on Caynine. We have other holes that desparately need filled than to be loading up on "players of the century". Besides, isn't there one of these nearly every draft?

So now you guys are comparing SJ39 to CL? Where is this going?? Is Marshall Faulk next??
Well let me ask the question on who do you think is a better RAM. How many pro bowls did each play in?? Enough said. Sorry, but the amount of money paid vs production weighs in pretty heavy to determine whether or not a player gets cut or not. This is a business and CL could be gone next year. AKA...Cortland Finnegan, Finnegan was good to but his production fell and he was axed. If they draft Clowney (which I doubt) This leads me to think they will get rid of CL.

 

[zeke2829]

In fairness (and I could be mistaken), I don't think zeke2829 necessarily wants to get rid of Chris Long. I think he's just making the counter-point as to why drafting Clowney is indeed a possibility.

I like CL, but in order to compete in the newly "Toughest Division in the NFL" we got to watch our spending. Sure CL has helped this team in many ways, but all players are at risk of getting cut in the later years of their contracts. This is where the GM can save a buck. Look at Finnegan. Look at half of the teams in the nfl.

In your earlier post you questioned on why bring in Clowney when we already have CL. I simply gave you him as being one of the highest paid players on the team as a reason to why they could very well draft Javadian Clowney. Nothing more... I mentioned CL's sack# vs Quinns and everybody and their brother wants to condemn me for it.

This question is for ALL OF YOU......What do you think Les Snead will decide do to Chris Long at the end of 2014 if his production drops or is right around what he did last year?? (after making 15mill)??
Note: Keep in mind that Robert Quinn is in need of a new deal as well.

 

[zeke2829]

to add to it. No one was calling Clowney "player of the century" before his combine and pro day workouts. How many guys have we seen over the years that are insane workout warriors flunk out of the NFL. Everyone is crowning this guy with a walk in Canton without even taking a snap in the NFL. Drives me nuts

Come on Jacob....There was a lot of hype on him before the combine.

We know your a hater. All I can say is, if he turns out to bust I will admit that you were right! But if we pass on him and he goes to a team and plays up to caliber, I will forever remind you of his success and how we could have selected him and how you thought he would bust. Because that is what you seem to like to do. I will haunt you every time he makes a sack. Put it this way, I never forget when someone disagrees and criticize a player and after the fact all is forgotten. Not me dude, I never forget!

 

[ozarkram]

Suuuuuuuuh! Kinda spooky huh..

 

[Caynine29]

Oh... Well, I guess I was wrong. zeke2829 does want to get rid of Crhis Long. Lol.

The financial argument is a sound one. But, like I said... we're just not in the position to start thinking that way. Especially when we don't necessarily have to. The NFL is now a "what have you done for me lately" league. Fisher has had 2 years to put something together and it's time to see results. We don't have the luxury of drafting for the future, just yet

Nobody is comparing Chris Long to SJax as players. We're comparing their situations. Had we drafted McFadden, we'd be stuck with a broken down RB and SJ would have been wearing another uniform years ago. I mean... what if Clowney busts? Anything less than 15 sacks a year is going to be an abject failure for the "player of the century". Hell... some fans hammered Robert Quinn for only having 5 his first year and he was drafted 15th.

Right now we're saying that Chris Long could be a cap casualty. Drafting Clowney all but insures he will be. And if he scores only 6 sacks next year, we'd be stuck watching a productive player move on to another team, while we make excuses for Clowney's lack of production. Long is a known commodity and we've already got him. And even if we miss out on Clowney AND Long leaves, we've already got the best 4-3 DE in the league on the other side of the line, anyway. Why be greedy?

To me, it just makes more sense to concentrate on the weaknesses rather than the strengths, when it comes to the draft.

 

[zeke2829]

Oh... Well, I guess I was wrong. zeke2829 does want to get rid of Crhis Long. Lol.

The financial argument is a sound one. But, like I said... we're just not in the position to start thinking that way. Especially when we don't necessarily have to. The NFL is now a "what have you done for me lately" league. Fisher has had 2 years to put something together and it's time to see results. We don't have the luxury of drafting for the future, just yet

Nobody is comparing Chris Long to SJax as players. We're comparing their situations. Had we drafted McFadden, we'd be stuck with a broken down RB and SJ would have been wearing another uniform years ago. I mean... what if Clowney busts? Anything less than 15 sacks a year is going to be an abject failure for the "player of the century". Hell... some fans hammered Robert Quinn for only having 5 his first year and he was drafted 15th.

Right now we're saying that Chris Long could be a cap casualty. Drafting Clowney all but insures he will be. And if he scores only 6 sacks next year, we'd be stuck watching a productive player move on to another team, while we make excuses for Clowney's lack of production. And even if we miss out on Clowney AND Long leaves, we've already got the best 4-3 DE in the league on the other side of the line, anyway. Why be greedy?

To me, it just makes more sense to concentrate on the weaknesses rather than the strengths, when it comes to the draft.

Geesh.. just because I suggest the possibillity of something happening, makes me a hater??I dont call or refer to you as a hater in any way.

When/Where did I ever say that "I want to get rid of Chris Long"?? I dont hate Chris Long. All I said, from a GM's point of view "It Could Very Well Happen", "CAP Casualty" and this could be a reason to draft Clowney. I totaly agree with your "what have you done for me lately" statement. That is why I metioned his sack total and pro bowl visits. Hmmm, you think this makesa me a hater? wow, newsflash here, there are a lot of really good players that get cut all the time because of mediocre production/high salaries. They can invest in the future(Quinn) by dioing this. To me this makes a GREAT DEAL OF SENSE.

 

[Caynine29]

Geesh.. just because I suggest the possibillity of something happening, makes me a hater??I dont call or refer to you as a hater in any way.

When/Where did I ever say that "I want to get rid of Chris Long"?? I dont hate Chris Long. All I said, from a GM's point of view "It Could Very Well Happen", "CAP Casualty" and this could be a reason to draft Clowney. I totaly agree with your "what have you done for me lately" statement. That is why I metioned his sack total and pro bowl visits. Hmmm, you think this makesa me a hater? wow, newsflash here, there are a lot of really good players that get cut all the time because of mediocre production/high salaries. They can invest in the future(Quinn) by dioing this. To me this makes a GREAT DEAL OF SENSE.

When did I call you a hater?

 

[Clayton]

Even Demarcus Ware gets cut eventually. The NFL is a harsh business.

Lets all hope that the Rams get to trade down and get a whole horde of draft picks. I dont think we need to cut Long yet but Id also hate to pass on Clowney

 

[zeke2829]

Oh... Well, I guess I was wrong. zeke2829 does want to get rid of Crhis Long. Lol.

I guess this makes me a hater

 

[zeke2829]

Even Demarcus Ware gets cut eventually. The NFL is a harsh business.

Lets all hope that the Rams get to trade down and get a whole horde of draft picks. I dont think we need to cut Long yet but Id also hate to pass on Clowney

This is exacly what I'm talking about.....thanks Clayton.

 

[Caynine29]

The problem with writing in these forums is that sometimes with text, the message gets a bit lost in translation. The line "Oh... Well, I guess I was wrong. zeke2829 does want to get rid of Chris Long." was said tongue-in-cheek. Hence the "Lol" at the end. It wasn't intended to insult you in any way. I acknowledged the fact that you're simply providing a financial counterpoint to the debate.

I will say this, though... Chris Long's play has been far from "mediocre". 33 sacks in the last 3 years is nothing to sneeze at. True, he only had 8.5 last year. However, that also just happened to coincide with Robert Quinn's 19. There's only one opposing QB on the field at any given time, ya know. And the NFL's annual popularity contest... err Pro Bowl... isn't a really good measuring stick for success, if you're coming from a team like the Rams. Long is clearly still playing at a high level.

 

[zeke2829]

The problem with writing in these forums is that sometimes with text, the message gets a bit lost in translation. The line "Oh... Well, I guess I was wrong. zeke2829 does want to get rid of Chris Long." was said tongue-in-cheek. Hence the "Lol" at the end. It wasn't intended to insult you in any way. I acknowledged the fact that you're simply providing a financial counterpoint to the debate.

I will say this, though... Chris Long's play has been far from "mediocre". 33 sacks in the last 3 years is nothing to sneeze at. True, he only had 8.5 last year. However, that also just happened to coincide with Robert Quinn's 19. There's only one opposing QB on the field at any given time, ya know. And the NFL's annual popularity contest... err Pro Bowl... isn't a really good measuring stick for success, if you're coming from a team like the Rams. Long is clearly still playing at a high level.

Its not a big deal, I understand and completely agree. In case you havent noticed by now, I take things very seriously. LOL... and yes I am cheap when it comes to players salaries! It's not that I dislike them, I guess I would like us to become more aggresive in free agency. Thats all! I am constantly visiting the "Over The CAP" website comparing NFL contracts. I trying to pick the GM's mind. Kind of like KSU does.

Misunderstanding/misinterpreting other peoples thoughts probably happens more here than we realize. I am guilty. I sure some have made enemies because of it and its not that my intentions were bad, its just how words are accidently typed/written out/comprehended.

BTW...I wasnt aware that CL had that many sacks in 3 years. Its seems like its been longer than 3 years already. Thats pretty good production.

 

[jacobarch]

Come on Jacob....There was a lot of hype on him before the combine.

We know your a hater. All I can say is, if he turns out to bust I will admit that you were right! But if we pass on him and he goes to a team and plays up to caliber, I will forever remind you of his success and how we could have selected him and how you thought he would bust. Because that is what you seem to like to do. I will haunt you every time he makes a sack. Put it this way, I never forget when someone disagrees and criticize a player and after the fact all is forgotten. Not me dude, I never forget!

No way dude, I'm sorry but I have to stop you there. Yes, there was a good amount of 'buzz' on Clowney before the combine and pro day. But after he finished his pro day everyone one and their mom got a boner over him and started saying he's the player of a decade. Did you know they say that about one or two players every other draft right? You know half of them end up average players or busting out of the NFL.

To add to your "Never forget" slogan. Are you one of those people that blames our FO for not getting every player in the draft that succeeds in the NFL? Because we've missed a lot. Pead and Quick come to mind. There are other picks that have done far better that would have helped out the Rams tremendously. My point is shit happens bro. I don't care whether or not Clowney does well in the NFL. I care about who the Rams pick at that spot. And we don't need DE. DE is the LEAST needed position on the team other than Punter and Place kicker. Even if Clowney falls to us. Trade him away. I hope the best for him, I hope he has a 21 sack season his rookie year. Guess what, I don't care dude. I really don't. I hope we pick up Watkins and he has a 1000 yard rookie season. I hope we pick up Mathews and he becomes the next Orlando Pace. I hope we pick up Dix and he becomes the Troy Polamalu. Why? Because those are the type of players we need to succeed in our Division if we want to make it to the playoffs and eventually the SB.

Cheers.

 

[Clayton]

I will say this, though... Chris Long's play has been far from "mediocre". 33 sacks in the last 3 years is nothing to sneeze at. True, he only had 8.5 last year. However, that also just happened to coincide with Robert Quinn's 19.

Another thing to consider is that Chris Long usually gets his sacks when QBs hold the ball. So when the Rams have a good secondary, Long puts up good numbers. When the Rams have swiss cheese in the back, Long cant get there in time.