I've now seen everything.....

[filosofy29]

Tito is respecting Nolan for slighting Black players (as they don't play the game the right way) and Latino players (because they are mentally weak).....the trolls are uniting.

 

[SFGRTB]

We need to get 'step over here.

And Laguna hasn't been around the Giants board lately, he needs to come over as well.

 

[calsnowskier]

LGH said his big good bye to the board about 2 months ago. He had a change at work or something and had to make a concerted effort to avoid the boards.

He was def one of my fave posters, though...

 

[gp956]

Tito is respecting Nolan for slighting Black players (as they don't play the game the right way) and Latino players (because they are mentally weak).....the trolls are uniting.

Where?

Plus you need to go over to Trueniner's lincecum thread to complete the Gang of Four

 

[Heathbar012]

Tito is respecting Nolan for slighting Black players (as they don't play the game the right way) and Latino players (because they are mentally weak).....the trolls are uniting.

Glad I missed that one. Bigotry is my least favorite thing to read.

 

[Heathbar012]

LGH said his big good bye to the board about 2 months ago. He had a change at work or something and had to make a concerted effort to avoid the boards.

He was def one of my fave posters, though...

Perfect blend of sarcasm and love for the Giants. Plus, you've gotta feel for any SF fan living in the belly of the beast. Great weather. Horrible people (for the most part).

 

[filosofy29]

Where?

Plus you need to go over to Trueniner's lincecum thread to complete the Gang of Four

ESPN.com: San Francisco Giants Message Board

They start off a little rough with each other, but then form a perfect bond in lack of tolerance.

LOL, You guys have done enough destroying, I'd only ruin the party. You're more of an expert on the topic than my ECON 101 taking arse, but I seem to recall something about "diminishing marginal returns".....I think I fall into that category! (I think I used the term correctly, lol)
You also absolutely destroyed SDEnvy which is nice. Don't know what it is about that dude, but he definitely bugs me.

I've been going to that site less and less recently since this board has grown a little. I think I see that trend continuing. Although I must admit, it is fun watching you, msg, tzill and cal (at least with trueniners) dominating ignorance

 

[gp956]

ESPN.com: San Francisco Giants Message Board

They start off a little rough with each other, but then form a perfect bond in lack of tolerance.

LOL, You guys have done enough destroying, I'd only ruin the party. You're more of an expert on the topic than my ECON 101 taking arse, but I seem to recall something about "diminishing marginal returns".....I think I fall into that category! (I think I used the term correctly, lol)
You also absolutely destroyed SDEnvy which is nice. Don't know what it is about that dude, but he definitely bugs me.

I've been going to that site less and less recently since this board has grown a little. I think I see that trend continuing. Although I must admit, it is fun watching you, msg, tzill and cal (at least with trueniners) dominating ignorance

No wonder I missed that exchange, I skip right over Linvingdisup threads. And now that I've seen it, i must admit to getting a little teary eyed seeing Tito and Nolan bonding - maybe ESPN should do some match.com like commercials - meet your soul mate kind of thing. Hmmm.....got to work that into a post over there.

And I usually skip trueniner threads too - but I was curious to see how Cal would deal with True's nonsense. Even though it's meant to be perceived as a farce, the procedure I outlined for creating a levered umpjack measure is correct. You'd have to create a finer detailed leverage index which accounted for the count state within the game state, but it could be done.

And ESPN blows. I went over to the SD board and a lot of the regulars are complaining about the same things we have complained about - trolls, whiners, attention whores taking over, i.e. the pitch fork carry dullard crowd.

 

[calsnowskier]

No wonder I missed that exchange, I skip right over Linvingdisup threads. And now that I've seen it, i must admit to getting a little teary eyed seeing Tito and Nolan bonding - maybe ESPN should do some match.com like commercials - meet your soul mate kind of thing. Hmmm.....got to work that into a post over there.

And I usually skip trueniner threads too - but I was curious to see how Cal would deal with True's nonsense. Even though it's meant to be perceived as a farce, the procedure I outlined for creating a levered umpjack measure is correct. You'd have to create a finer detailed leverage index which accounted for the count state within the game state, but it could be done.

And ESPN blows. I went over to the SD board and a lot of the regulars are complaining about the same things we have complained about - trolls, whiners, attention whores taking over, i.e. the pitch fork carry dullard crowd.

I am really trying to help the kid. Really I am.

He has a point that he is trying to make, but he is too illiterate to help his case. I have TRIED to point this out to him and tried to show him how to make an argument, but he just doesnt get it.

It just reverts into picking on the helmet-wearing, unfortunately

 

[calsnowskier]

No wonder I missed that exchange, I skip right over Linvingdisup threads. And now that I've seen it, i must admit to getting a little teary eyed seeing Tito and Nolan bonding - maybe ESPN should do some match.com like commercials - meet your soul mate kind of thing. Hmmm.....got to work that into a post over there.

And I usually skip trueniner threads too - but I was curious to see how Cal would deal with True's nonsense. Even though it's meant to be perceived as a farce, the procedure I outlined for creating a levered umpjack measure is correct. You'd have to create a finer detailed leverage index which accounted for the count state within the game state, but it could be done.

And ESPN blows. I went over to the SD board and a lot of the regulars are complaining about the same things we have complained about - trolls, whiners, attention whores taking over, i.e. the pitch fork carry dullard crowd.

And I took your post as an expansion of my post about Gibberish Argument

I will have to look at it again with a serious eye now :-/

 

[Heathbar012]

No wonder I missed that exchange, I skip right over Linvingdisup threads. And now that I've seen it, i must admit to getting a little teary eyed seeing Tito and Nolan bonding - maybe ESPN should do some match.com like commercials - meet your soul mate kind of thing. Hmmm.....got to work that into a post over there.

And I usually skip trueniner threads too - but I was curious to see how Cal would deal with True's nonsense. Even though it's meant to be perceived as a farce, the procedure I outlined for creating a levered umpjack measure is correct. You'd have to create a finer detailed leverage index which accounted for the count state within the game state, but it could be done.

And ESPN blows. I went over to the SD board and a lot of the regulars are complaining about the same things we have complained about - trolls, whiners, attention whores taking over, i.e. the pitch fork carry dullard crowd.

Funny thing, that losing. Tends to bring out the reactionaries even more than winning. So what it is worse: the bandwagon jumper or the sky is falling "pitch fork carrying dullard" (gp, I like to cite my sources)? Maybe the bandwagon jumper is easier to deal with because it inherently implies that your favorite team is winning.

 

[calsnowskier]

Funny thing, that losing. Tends to bring out the reactionaries even more than winning. So what it is worse: the bandwagon jumper or the sky is falling "pitch fork carrying dullard" (gp, I like to cite my sources)? Maybe the bandwagon jumper is easier to deal with because it inherently implies that your favorite team is winning.

On a message board, however, you need to keep in mind that the "band wagon jumper" has a higher chance of not actually being a "band wagon jumper" than a "pitch fork carrying dullard" has of not being a "pitch fork carrying dullard".

A VERY small percentage of fans ever post to a message board. If someone posts to a message board, almost by default they are a true fan, thus not a "band wagon jumper". They are just more excited than normal and have decided to chime in. However, the "pitch fork carrying dullard" is likely that person in every avenue of their lives.

 

[Heathbar012]

On a message board, however, you need to keep in mind that the "band wagon jumper" has a higher chance of not actually being a "band wagon jumper" than a "pitch fork carrying dullard" has of not being a "pitch fork carrying dullard".

A VERY small percentage of fans ever post to a message board. If someone posts to a message board, almost by default they are a true fan, thus not a "band wagon jumper". They are just more excited than normal and have decided to chime in. However, the "pitch fork carrying dullard" is likely that person in every avenue of their lives.

Fair enough. How about the real world, met in person where were you the last three decades? bandwagon jumper vs. the anonymous type-happy pitchfork carrying dullard? Does the "true fan" win out? Sad that the ignorant, angry reactionary becomes the true fan in this scenario?

I don't know that I agree with that assessment, though. I understand why Nolan and Livin don't agree with questioning another person's fandom. But seriously, if you're going to tuck tail or root for anything other than success for a team, you are not a fan of that team. Obviously, draft picks throw a monkey wrench in all of this, but that is a discussion for another time, and for the most part, another sport.

 

[gp956]

Message boards are bit like a secondary market, lot's of herd behavior, many wild swings, but mostly, when viewed from the long run, a random walk around a fundamental truth.

 

[gp956]

Fair enough. How about the real world, met in person where were you the last three decades? bandwagon jumper vs. the anonymous type-happy pitchfork carrying dullard? Does the "true fan" win out? Sad that the ignorant, angry reactionary becomes the true fan in this scenario?

I don't know that I agree with that assessment, though. I understand why Nolan and Livin don't agree with questioning another person's fandom. But seriously, if you're going to tuck tail or root for anything other than success for a team, you are not a fan of that team. Obviously, draft picks throw a monkey wrench in all of this, but that is a discussion for another time, and for the most part, another sport.

I don't think I've ever questioned someone's fandom, but it seems to me that message boards are at their most entertaining when the team has enjoyed a sustained period of success. Everyone wants to be a part of a winner, and the natural entertainers will entertain the crowd. So, there are bound to be many on the board who are just there for the "fun". Those guys aren't really baseball fans to me.... but I don't think of that as something to criticize either.

The Tito's of the world are another matter altogether. There is no doubt that he would rather the Giants lose than to have his criticisms rendered moot. That's just a guy with a personality disorder who happens to root for a team. The status of his fandom is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[calsnowskier]

Fair enough. How about the real world, met in person where were you the last three decades? bandwagon jumper vs. the anonymous type-happy pitchfork carrying dullard? Does the "true fan" win out? Sad that the ignorant, angry reactionary becomes the true fan in this scenario?

I don't know that I agree with that assessment, though. I understand why Nolan and Livin don't agree with questioning another person's fandom. But seriously, if you're going to tuck tail or root for anything other than success for a team, you are not a fan of that team. Obviously, draft picks throw a monkey wrench in all of this, but that is a discussion for another time, and for the most part, another sport.

Does it have to be an either-or? A Red Sox fan who never wore the hat before '04 is an annoying twit. Someone who follows the Pirates for no other reason than to constantly complain about their crappiness is equally a twit.

Who is the bigger fan? Since '04, I am guessing that guy has been a real fan. Unfortunately, his loyalty has not been tested. His "fandom" will always be questioned in my eyes until the Sax have a bad 3 year run. The doomsayers probably know a lot about their team, but they are probably attached to the team for the wrong reasons. I suspect they "like" the team because they can complain about them and the team represents all that is bad in their "real" lives. In other words, he could really care less about the team.

I have been a fan of the Giants since I was in 6th grade. Sports was never on my radar before that, but when I discovered baseball (and eventually settled on the Giants over the A's -- a process that took about 3 years), I was in love for life. Sometimes I am a blind fan, who cares the outcome. Sometimes I am a chicken little.

Where do I rank?

Am I a bigger fan than Tito? Is Tito a bigger fan than tz? Is Brute, Ram, SayHay etc bigger fans than those of us on this site?

 

[gp956]

And I took your post as an expansion of my post about Gibberish Argument

I will have to look at it again with a serious eye now :-/

I think I composed it before I saw your gibberish post. Yes, there's some real meat in there, but it was meant to be just a riff on trueniners way of pointing at raw data and saying "SEE".

So what I'm pointing to in that post is the raw pitch f/x data. I wrote a beautifully tight little perl script to scrap it and load it into a postgresql database a while back, but then through an incredibly stupid bit of clumsiness on my part trashed everything on my hard drive and my backups. Haven't had it in me to re-write all my baseball scripts. Otherwise, i might go ahead and do it myself. But, of course, we already know the outcome will be pretty much random across pitchers. Although it might illuminate tendencies among some umpires.

 

[gp956]

Does it have to be an either-or? A Red Sox fan who never wore the hat before '04 is an annoying twit. Someone who follows the Pirates for no other reason than to constantly complain about their crappiness is equally a twit.

Who is the bigger fan? Since '04, I am guessing that guy has been a real fan. Unfortunately, his loyalty has not been tested. His "fandom" will always be questioned in my eyes until the Sax have a bad 3 year run. The doomsayers probably know a lot about their team, but they are probably attached to the team for the wrong reasons. I suspect they "like" the team because they can complain about them and the team represents all that is bad in their "real" lives. In other words, he could really care less about the team.

I have been a fan of the Giants since I was in 6th grade. Sports was never on my radar before that, but when I discovered baseball (and eventually settled on the Giants over the A's -- a process that took about 3 years), I was in love for life. Sometimes I am a blind fan, who cares the outcome. Sometimes I am a chicken little.

Where do I rank?

Am I a bigger fan than Tito? Is Tito a bigger fan than tz? Is Brute, Ram, SayHay etc bigger fans than those of us on this site?

Excellent post.

For me, I can't remember not being a fan of the Giants, or just a fan of baseball. Went to games in the womb, I'm told.

 

[Heathbar012]

Does it have to be an either-or? A Red Sox fan who never wore the hat before '04 is an annoying twit. Someone who follows the Pirates for no other reason than to constantly complain about their crappiness is equally a twit.

Who is the bigger fan? Since '04, I am guessing that guy has been a real fan. Unfortunately, his loyalty has not been tested. His "fandom" will always be questioned in my eyes until the Sax have a bad 3 year run. The doomsayers probably know a lot about their team, but they are probably attached to the team for the wrong reasons. I suspect they "like" the team because they can complain about them and the team represents all that is bad in their "real" lives. In other words, he could really care less about the team.

I have been a fan of the Giants since I was in 6th grade. Sports was never on my radar before that, but when I discovered baseball (and eventually settled on the Giants over the A's -- a process that took about 3 years), I was in love for life. Sometimes I am a blind fan, who cares the outcome. Sometimes I am a chicken little.

Where do I rank?

Am I a bigger fan than Tito? Is Tito a bigger fan than tz? Is Brute, Ram, SayHay etc bigger fans than those of us on this site?

I wouldn't put it on a spectrum, so I guess it is an either/or, for me. You're either a fan of the Giants or you're not. I don't mean to put any amount of importance on it. I don't care if people like baseball or which team they root for, in the larger scheme of things. In fact, some of my best friends are Dodger fans, so much like you, I normally wouldn't give it a second thought.

I don't like bandwagon "fans" because I feel like they haven't earned the right to root for the team. It should be inconsequential to my overall assessment of a person, but I do feel that it's a window into their personality, and an attribute that I don't appreciate. I also don't appreciate someone that gives up on their team. A bit of Chicken Little is natural and expected when one invests so much time, energy and emotion into a team, but to stop rooting for a team is ridiculous.

The point of my original question was just to read some respected opinions of what you guys thought was worse, the "bandwagon jumpers" or "the dullards." The "fandom" tangent was merely that, and became important to the discussion because I don't really see either of those characters as true fans. This assessment isn't meant to be elitist because every fan should be excited about the possibility of more people rooting for their favorite team (possibility of more money for better players, etc.), but I do believe there is a level of dedication, knowledge and respect that has to be earned (and is easily attainable) for me to consider someone a fan.

By the way, I'm glad you chose the Giants. I was born into this (both parents born and raised in SF). I never had a chance to escape it. .

 

[LHG]

LGH said his big good bye to the board about 2 months ago. He had a change at work or something and had to make a concerted effort to avoid the boards.

He was def one of my fave posters, though...

Well, after spending way too much time catching up, I stumbled across this post. Thanks for the kind words cal. I always enjoyed your posts on the ESPN board.

As I've looked around the last 6 pages of the forum, it seemed that a regular conversation was the state of the ESPN boards. My have times changed.