Its never easy being a Pirates fan, huh

[evolver115]

Regardless of your opinion, pretty fun discusssion, gang.

I think we can all agree on one thing - this is somehow all Matt Cooke's fault.

Yes, I want matt cooke to be given a one game contract so that he can 'accidentally' release his bat down the third base line and take Jerry Meals' head off his shoulders

 

[elocomotive]

Yes, I want matt cooke to be given a one game contract so that he can 'accidentally' release his bat down the third base line and take Jerry Meals' head off his shoulders

[Insert a quip about how Pittsburgh suddenly cares about baseball here]

I kid, I kid. Washington is just a season or two away from the bandwagon being fired up.

 

[awaz]

Right, if you had the choice, I agree. But not knowing if that would even be an option, a fair/foul ball might be a review, a strike might be reviewed, a steal at second might be reviewed. You'd have to weigh each situation against possible future situations. I think as long as you limit the frequency, you should be able to review whatever situation or play a team deems to be important in it's own eyes.

thats legit.. i think a challenge system would be pretty interesting in baseball.. i dont know if they'll ever do it though just because there is so much to weigh in your decision to use them.. it would cause a lot of discussion on what managers decided to challenge though

i think its more likely that they just add an 'ump review' kind of thing for homeplate calls.. like they did with fair/foul.. eventually it will get there, but traditionalists will fight tooth and nail at every turn to slow down the automation process

just like the NRA fights everything to slow it down.. if they fight at RPG's they'll delay RPG's being banned, which keeps automatic rifles off the table longer.. fight that to keep sniper rifles out of the discussion.. all the way down so that guns being outlawed takes 500 years

 

[awaz]

Yes, I want matt cooke to be given a one game contract so that he can 'accidentally' release his bat down the third base line and take Jerry Meals' head off his shoulders

i think the question there is whether or not that counts as another repeat offense?

 

[Darkstone42]

I don't know if the players and managers realize it, but bad strike zones have probably a 5-10 win impact every season, and it generally means large market teams win 5-10 more games and small market teams lose 5-10 more games, because that's how the talent and "respect" is distributed.

OPS numbers change drastically from count to count. The count is extremely important. Say an elite pitcher is on the mound against a rookie, as you said, and the count is 2-1. The pitcher throws a pitch off the black, and the umpire calls it a strike. Now you have a rookie hitter with a 2-2 count, which means he has to protect and can't select his pitch, and a large strike zone to deal with while he protects. I don't have the numbers, but players in that situation are likely to OPS on average in the realm of .650 - .700 or so. That's not very good.

Now let's turn it around, and the pitcher's a rookie and the hitter's a star. 2-1 count, pitch on the corner is called a ball. Now you have a hitter in a 3-1 count, a hitter's count, and a pitcher throwing to a smaller strike zone. That means he's either going to have to walk the guy or throw one in a good hitting spot. A hitter in that position is likely going to OPS on average around .800 - .850. That's pretty solid. Well above league average, in fact.

I wasn't even factoring in the talents of the players in those OPS stats, either. Consider an elite pitcher in the first scenario, and that OPS will likely drop. Consider an elite hitter in the second scenario, and it will likely rise.

Now consider that these sorts of matchups and these sorts of calls happen, as eloco said, probably upwards of 30 times a game. At the low end, we're talking about a fifth of a run per game. Over the season, about 5 wins. At the high end, 10 wins.

That's significant. Really significant.

 

[elocomotive]

just like the NRA fights everything to slow it down.. if they fight at RPG's they'll delay RPG's being banned, which keeps automatic rifles off the table longer.. fight that to keep sniper rifles out of the discussion.. all the way down so that guns being outlawed takes 500 years

In the event of the US defaulting on it's debts and the inevitable slow march to anarchy, I just want to say Awaz is and always has been my best friend on these boards. His sniper rifles, automatics, and RPGs are always welcome in my home during a period of complete lawlessness and chaos anytime.

 

[evolver115]

the bucco bandwagon has always had willing passengers, it just never had a driver. Clint Hurdle is now driving the bus.

 

[elocomotive]

See ^^^^. Told you Darkstone would have a formula.

 

[evolver115]

it is significant DS. Probably isn't going to change, though.

 

[Darkstone42]

See ^^^^. Told you Darkstone would have a formula.

I believe comprehensive studies have been done, and I could look up numbers on OPS in different counts, as well as loose trend correlations between runs created/wins and OPS, to make a more definitive argument.

However, I will not.

 

[elocomotive]

it is significant DS. Probably isn't going to change, though.

I agree. Probably not soon, but that doesn't change the debate itself. And I guarantee sometime in this century baseball with have computers calling balls and strikes and more instant review options. Baseball will resist it longer than other sports, but it will change eventually.

 

[Darkstone42]

I agree. Probably not soon, but that doesn't change the debate itself. And I guarantee sometime in this century baseball with have computers calling balls and strikes and more instant review options. Baseball will resist it longer than other sports, but it will change eventually.

Given how unever the economic landscape of baseball is, they should definitely at least even out the field of play.

 

[Comeds]

In the event of the US defaulting on it's debts and the inevitable slow march to anarchy, I just want to say Awaz is and always has been my best friend on these boards. His sniper rifles, automatics, and RPGs are always welcome in my home during a period of complete lawlessness and chaos anytime.

Bullshit! He's my best friend, not yours!

 

[elocomotive]

I believe comprehensive studies have been done, and I could look up numbers on OPS in different counts, as well as loose trend correlations between runs created/wins and OPS, to make a more definitive argument.

However, I will not.

Yeah, fair enough. You made your point. Just as a quick reference (also without going too deep), here are batting average differences based on a couple different counts...

According to 2009 MLB stats:
2-1 count = .339
1-2 count = .171

Pretty easy to see how a close call on the 3rd pitch could be huge. The batter is about twice as likely to get a hit if it's called a ball.

 

[awaz]

In the event of the US defaulting on it's debts and the inevitable slow march to anarchy, I just want to say Awaz is and always has been my best friend on these boards. His sniper rifles, automatics, and RPGs are always welcome in my home during a period of complete lawlessness and chaos anytime.

hahaha i'm not a gun owner. just an analogy.

 

[elocomotive]

Bullshit! He's my best friend, not yours!

Walkie Talkie: Take the shot, Awaz!! TAKE THE SHOT!!!!

 

[evolver115]

i would be fine with a evolution in baseball in regards to how its officiated. I feel that the next likeliest progession would be plays at the plate being reviewable.

 

[Darkstone42]

Yeah, fair enough. You made your point. Just as a quick reference (also without going too deep), here are batting average differences based on a couple different counts...

According to 2009 MLB stats:
2-1 count = .339
1-2 count = .171

Pretty easy to see how a close call on the 3rd pitch could be huge. The batter is about twice as likely to get a hit if it's called a ball.

Yeah, batting averages do show a nice correlation, since they're related to both OBP and slugging, so those numbers are sufficient to suggest my numbers aren't far off.

 

[elocomotive]

hahaha i'm not a gun owner. just an analogy.

Riiight. I gotcha (wink). I'm not a gun owner either (wink). And I definitely won't have any ammo at my place either. (crosses fingers) Stay away.

(psst, Awaz, make note of the winks, ssshhhh)

 

[Darkstone42]

i would be fine with a evolution in baseball in regards to how its officiated. I feel that the next likeliest progession would be plays at the plate being reviewable.

And you're likely correct. Because of money, though, not tradition. Tradition is just a cover up.