Is there no where to talk about the Combine or Draft on this site?

[cdumler7]

We've been spoiled no doubt but I think that has more to do whe way BB manages the draft and the roster then getting players on discounts. Many teams have done the same Denver and Seattle included. BB is not afraid to give up early picks (whether forced by the NFL) or by choice to stockpile additional picks. Picks that keep the cap manageable even after their first contracts. He doesn't overpay for players and he's not scared to release big time players. Suffice to say BB must have some monster testicles. He's already looking at the 2018 and 19 drafts.

Then you add brining in mid level vets via FA or trade that are willing to accept their role. They provide that needed depth required to sustain a full NFL season. Teams panicking and overspending don't have that luxury.

Cleveland has grabbed some very nice players over the last couple drafts. Their pay days will be coming up over the next 2-3 years. You can sign a Jimmy G like QB and avoid all those contract coming due at the same time. So depending on where Cleveland selects a QB this year that QB will be entering negotiations around the same seasons as their top picks from last year and the year before. Or they chance allowing him test the FA market.

Obviously I think Cleveland needs a starting QB now. If they can do that without using an early pick or a combination of picks good on them. Then I hope they do.

See I read this last part and all I keep reading is more of this from a Patriots' fans view. Getting that extra high 1st round pick is appealing so hard for you to stay objective.

Those high 1st round picks that you are talking about that will be up in 2-3 years are already gone. Those players would be Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Barkevious Mingo for the high 1st round pick guys that will have contracts up. The next draft is Danny Shelton and CAmeron Erving as the high draft picks. Neither have really lit the league on fire.

Really at this point the one high priced FA that I can see will be Joel Bitonio due in a couple of years. They can pay an OG though and be fine. So to me they have plenty of time to build around a young rookie QB. I think most people know the Browns are not going to be Super Bowl contenders next year and maybe the year after that unless they just hit on some ridiculous players. So there is some time to develop a young QB while developing the other young players and then hope in years 3-5 of that rookie contract that something big can happen. Super Bowl windows don't stay open long unless you have an elite QB at the helm. So teams are building for a 2-3 year window which the Browns could easily do.

Trading for Jimmy G though hurts them by trading away valuable draft capital and then either a very high salary moving forward or the fact that you just traded away a valuable 1st round pick for a guy that isn't the future.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

See I read this last part and all I keep reading is more of this from a Patriots' fans view. Getting that extra high 1st round pick is appealing so hard for you to stay objective.

Those high 1st round picks that you are talking about that will be up in 2-3 years are already gone. Those players would be Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Barkevious Mingo for the high 1st round pick guys that will have contracts up. The next draft is Danny Shelton and CAmeron Erving as the high draft picks. Neither have really lit the league on fire.

Really at this point the one high priced FA that I can see will be Joel Bitonio due in a couple of years. They can pay an OG though and be fine. So to me they have plenty of time to build around a young rookie QB. I think most people know the Browns are not going to be Super Bowl contenders next year and maybe the year after that unless they just hit on some ridiculous players. So there is some time to develop a young QB while developing the other young players and then hope in years 3-5 of that rookie contract that something big can happen. Super Bowl windows don't stay open long unless you have an elite QB at the helm. So teams are building for a 2-3 year window which the Browns could easily do.

Trading for Jimmy G though hurts them by trading away valuable draft capital and then either a very high salary moving forward or the fact that you just traded away a valuable 1st round pick for a guy that isn't the future.

Josh Gordan, Pryor and Coleman are all coming up on contracts over tge next 2-3 seasons. At RB Duke Johnson and Isiah Cromwell are coming up in 18 and 19. Barnidge in 19. The entire O line including Thomas between now an 19. Granted they need Oline help like everyone. Well maybe more. Nassib an Ogbah in 20. Hayden and Taylor in 20.

Now look I'm not saying these are all super stars nor do other teams have to deal with the cap. My point is the team needs to start winning now if they want to get off the cycle of accumulating multiple picks, missing on QBs, losing players because they can't seem to win more than 5 games on average. The multiple pick thing isn't working. Beside they have 11 picks. Trading a few doesn't cripple them. Use that $100m cap space and bring in some high priced vets. I'm suggesting a different strategy because their strategy isnxt working. Cleveland fans deserve better.

 

[Tharvot]

Josh Gordan, Pryor and Coleman are all coming up on contracts over tge next 2-3 seasons. At RB Duke Johnson and Isiah Cromwell are coming up in 18 and 19. Barnidge in 19. The entire O line including Thomas between now an 19. Granted they need Oline help like everyone. Well maybe more. Nassib an Ogbah in 20. Hayden and Taylor in 20.

Now look I'm not saying these are all super stars nor do other teams have to deal with the cap. My point is the team needs to start winning now if they want to get off the cycle of accumulating multiple picks, missing on QBs, losing players because they can't seem to win more than 5 games on average. The multiple pick thing isn't working. Beside they have 11 picks. Trading a few doesn't cripple them. Use that $100m cap space and bring in some high priced vets. I'm suggesting a different strategy because their strategy isnxt working. Cleveland fans deserve better.

That's exactly what they shouldn't do. It's what got them in this situation to begin with: they overpaid for aging vets well beyond their primes and missed with early draft picks.

Obviously, they need to spend that cap money somewhere, but they need to be smart with any free agents they bring in.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

This is where Pats fans have been so spoiled. They don't understand that most teams don't have the advantages they do. They can get players on discounts because of the promise of competing for a Super Bowl every year. Most other teams have to have some luck to go their way like we saw with Seattle where a few good draft picks completely changed the entire franchise. To me if I am Cleveland I see an opportunity with so much cap space and so much draft capital to build a very deep roster around a young QB. This is again why the Jimmy G. trade could very much hurt them with having to pay him after just one season.

I mean to me look at the QB's that have won the Super Bowl other than Brady and Manning over the last say 15 years. Most of them have been on rookie contracts allowing the team to surround them with talent and have that QB play game manager. Heck even Brady early on in his career that was more of his role was game manager and make a few plays at the end of the game if things were close.

Jimmy G...I think signing him is not a bad deal if they can work out a long term deal that's not a cap breaker. A longer term deal at say RG3 type money would be ideal. At the same time, NE fans look at what he was able to do with a strong team around him and maybe projecting that to CLE. He hasn't earned 1st round compensation off a 3 game body of work.

I don't think he'll be anywhere near as good with the Browns...better than one of these rookies? yes, but in terms of wins and losses, IDT he'll be able to change that by a ton.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

That's exactly what they shouldn't do. It's what got them in this situation to begin with: they overpaid for aging vets well beyond their primes and missed with early draft picks.

Obviously, they need to spend that cap money somewhere, but they need to be smart with any free agents they bring in.

It appeared in years past they were juut trying to burn cap $. They have a nice skeleton right now. They locked up Jamie Collins. Now they need to do their due dillegence and bring in quality vets that command big $. Players that are top tier at their position as well as good locker room guys. Missing on picks supports my arguement. Trade them when it makes sense. Drafting is a crap shoot. Thus the reason I say get a Jimmy G or one of the other FA QBs. At least you have seen them in the NFL.

Damn they should hire me for their personnel director. I'll put the Browns back on the map.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Jimmy G...I think signing him is not a bad deal if they can work out a long term deal that's not a cap breaker. A longer term deal at say RG3 type money would be ideal. At the same time, NE fans look at what he was able to do with a strong team around him and maybe projecting that to CLE. He hasn't earned 1st round compensation off a 3 game body of work.

I don't think he'll be anywhere near as good with the Browns...better than one of these rookies? yes, but in terms of wins and losses, IDT he'll be able to change that by a ton.

The only reason he's earned 1st round consideration is how weak the QB core is. I mentioned somewhere if I were BB I'M just trying to drive up the price. See if anyone else gets involved then suggest a new deal of their 2nd along with a handful of other picks this year or next? Maybe Cleveland can swallow losing one of their 2nd rounders + easier than #12.
Who knows maybe Cleveland trades 12 for other picks, then trades that pick later in the round for Jimmy?

 

[Tharvot]

It appeared in years past they were juut trying to burn cap $. They have a nice skeleton right now. They locked up Jamie Collins. Now they need to do their due dillegence and bring in quality vets that command big $. Players that are top tier at their position as well as good locker room guys. Missing on picks supports my arguement. Trade them when it makes sense. Drafting is a crap shoot. Thus the reason I say get a Jimmy G or one of the other FA QBs. At least you have seen them in the NFL.

Damn they should hire me for their personnel director. I'll put the Browns back on the map.

Getting Garoppolo from the Pats is just as big a crap shoot as drafting a QB. He's completely unproven.

They do need some vets to help teach the young guys. They're not going to be getting any high priced vets tho. First off, none want to go to Cleveland and secondly that's just not the management team's m-o. Maybe after they begin establishing a winning trend it will be a more attractive destination, but right now it certainly isn't.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

That's exactly what they shouldn't do. It's what got them in this situation to begin with: they overpaid for aging vets well beyond their primes and missed with early draft picks.

Obviously, they need to spend that cap money somewhere, but they need to be smart with any free agents they bring in.

What I think CLE needs to do is shore up the OL with a vet or two to allow whomever they put a QB a legit chance to succeed. Clearly the kid at C had a rough year, but was that just a rough yr or do they need to address that position in FA.

Once they shore up the OL, they have some decent pcs on OFC to be a fairly competitive group...they have two top tier picks in this draft to add to starter level talent to the DEF.

IMO, if they do this right...in 2 yrs, CLE should be a +.500 type team.

 

[Clayton]

The only reason he's earned 1st round consideration is how weak the QB core is.

People call it weak but there will be 1 pro bowler and 2-3 other starters out of this years QB class somewhere down the line.

 

[Tharvot]

What I think CLE needs to do is shore up the OL with a vet or two to allow whomever they put a QB a legit chance to succeed. Clearly the kid at C had a rough year, but was that just a rough yr or do they need to address that position in FA.

Once they shore up the OL, they have some decent pcs on OFC to be a fairly competitive group...they have two top tier picks in this draft to add to starter level talent to the DEF.

IMO, if they do this right...in 2 yrs, CLE should be a +.500 type team.

I'm sure they will get some short term help in FA. Probably address both the LB unit and the O-Line in FA. Maybe a slot WR or something like that. They'll be drafting a ton of guys in the trenches though. Most likely, any FA pickups will be stop-gaps until they can get young guys to take over.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

The only reason he's earned 1st round consideration is how weak the QB core is. I mentioned somewhere if I were BB I'M just trying to drive up the price. See if anyone else gets involved then suggest a new deal of their 2nd along with a handful of other picks this year or next? Maybe Cleveland can swallow losing one of their 2nd rounders + easier than #12.
Who knows maybe Cleveland trades 12 for other picks, then trades that pick later in the round for Jimmy?

Essentially a lessor of evils vs merit. That's a dangerous way to build a team.

While you can't blame NE for trying to max out on an asset, but after Matt Flynn in SEA and more recently Oweiler in HOU, teams should be wary of small sample QBs...Cousins was able to succeed largely by being the system already before he won the job.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Getting Garoppolo from the Pats is just as big a crap shoot as drafting a QB. He's completely unproven.

They do need some vets to help teach the young guys. They're not going to be getting any high priced vets tho. First off, none want to go to Cleveland and secondly that's just not the management team's m-o. Maybe after they begin establishing a winning trend it will be a more attractive destination, but right now it certainly isn't.

Well you are supporting my arguement. We just differ on maybe the method. JG has 3 NFL games and a boat load of playoff expirence so he isn't totally unproven. Heck Glennon is rumored to be getting 14-15 mil. What's he have 20 games over 3 years with 30 TDs to 15 INTs. I'm taking a shot on JG he can't be any worse for that price.
Unfortunately, you're right most guys don't want to go there I've argued that on their behalf. That's why they have to overpay. This year they can afford it. Those vets also would rather know Cleveland has Jimmy G or another FA behind center not another rookie. The management's MO needs to change.
HEY CLEVELAND FO WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING ISN'T WORKING

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Essentially a lessor of evils vs merit. That's a dangerous way to build a team.

While you can't blame NE for trying to max out on an asset, but after Matt Flynn in SEA and more recently Oweiler in HOU, teams should be wary of small sample QBs...Cousins was able to succeed largely by being the system already before he won the job.

I don't disagree. But if they use either number 1 or 12 on a QB I will laugh at them forever.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'm sure they will get some short term help in FA. Probably address both the LB unit and the O-Line in FA. Maybe a slot WR or something like that. They'll be drafting a ton of guys in the trenches though. Most likely, any FA pickups will be stop-gaps until they can get young guys to take over.

That will be money well spent...get a Mangold on the interior will help that OL a great deal...I'm sure it sucks for Browns fan to hear this, but Alex Mack made a huge difference on the Falcon OL that imo is weak at both OG spots. He made up for it all season...sucks he wasn't 100% for the SB.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I don't disagree. But if they use either number 1 or 12 on a QB I will laugh at them forever.

I will too...they would be better off trading 12 for JG if they do that.

In hindsight they missed on Wentz, but this is a new draft, a Wentz caliber player is not there...take the BPA at 1 and 12, and maybe leverage 33 and a 3rd or 4th rounder to get back into the bottom of the 1st and get their QB...better yet he fall to them at 33.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

That will be money well spent...get a Mangold on the interior will help that OL a great deal...I'm sure it sucks for Browns fan to hear this, but Alex Mack made a huge difference on the Falcon OL that imo is weak at both OG spots. He made up for it all season...sucks he wasn't 100% for the SB.

I don't think that sucked that bad

 

[Ricky Roma]

From what everyone says, next years QB class blows 2017's away. Cleveland is in a very similar situation to SF in that I wouldn't mind seeing the Niners take a QB in the third round or so, and perhaps get one of the big dogs next year, because both teams are probably gonna be in similar draft positions next year barring something out of the blue.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Well you are supporting my arguement. We just differ on maybe the method. JG has 3 NFL games and a boat load of playoff expirence so he isn't totally unproven. Heck Glennon is rumored to be getting 14-15 mil. What's he have 20 games over 3 years with 30 TDs to 15 INTs. I'm taking a shot on JG he can't be any worse for that price.
Unfortunately, you're right most guys don't want to go there I've argued that on their behalf. That's why they have to overpay. This year they can afford it. Those vets also would rather know Cleveland has Jimmy G or another FA behind center not another rookie. The management's MO needs to change.
HEY CLEVELAND FO WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING ISN'T WORKING

Any team paying Glennon is falling into the same trap HOU did with Os.

They do need to spend some FA money, but not on skill positions...they're not terribly far off...add a legit C, and a RT should be good enough for now...still draft behind them to be ready to take over in a couple of yrs.

 

[Tharvot]

Well you are supporting my arguement. We just differ on maybe the method. JG has 3 NFL games and a boat load of playoff expirence so he isn't totally unproven. Heck Glennon is rumored to be getting 14-15 mil. What's he have 20 games over 3 years with 30 TDs to 15 INTs. I'm taking a shot on JG he can't be any worse for that price.
Unfortunately, you're right most guys don't want to go there I've argued that on their behalf. That's why they have to overpay. This year they can afford it. Those vets also would rather know Cleveland has Jimmy G or another FA behind center not another rookie. The management's MO needs to change.
HEY CLEVELAND FO WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING ISN'T WORKING

Umm, the current regime has 1 draft and 1 season under its belt. I think it's a bit too early to be making declarative statements on whether or not their plan is working.

That will be money well spent...get a Mangold on the interior will help that OL a great deal...I'm sure it sucks for Browns fan to hear this, but Alex Mack made a huge difference on the Falcon OL that imo is weak at both OG spots. He made up for it all season...sucks he wasn't 100% for the SB.

Sucked to see Mack go, but he wanted out. Can't blame him. When he was healthy, he was very good in cleveland too.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Most teams don't have to resign so many top 10 picks. $ will become a factor along with the desire to get out of Cleveland.
With Seattle they hit on RW as well as a bunch of defenders. Seattle has started feeling the $ crunch. They've opted to pay what tgey felt were their key players, had to let others go. It's hurt their depth and their ability to pay for quality Olinemen. Seattle has also hit on WR with guys like Lockette and Richardson which has given them financial relief at tgat position. Seattle is also a destination players want to go to. Most want to stay. Not so much in Cleveland.

They have swung and missed on Oline positions in the draft pretty much the entire Carrol era.......