Is Russ being scapegoated this year?

[PolarVortex]

So Brady constantly not taking market value makes him... a scab?

I wouldn't say scab, but he was never going to have an influential voice in the player's union because his loyalty wasn't to their team. I'm not saying he was right or wrong. But, the players that came before him, making personal sacrifices to establish the union, are the reason why he was a multi-millionaire. Well, they were the reason before he married a billionaire supermodel.

So, yeah, he did bite the hand that fed him, to a certain extent.

 

[belcherboy]

I wouldn't say scab, but he was never going to have an influential voice in the player's union because his loyalty wasn't to their team. I'm not saying he was right or wrong. But, the players that came before him, making personal sacrifices to establish the union, are the reason why he was a multi-millionaire. Well, they were the reason before he married a billionaire supermodel.

So, yeah, he did bite the hand that fed him, to a certain extent.

The other side of the coin is that his teammates would have more respect for him. If he is willing to take less, that means there is more money available on their team.

I don't think NFL players that came before him should have any bearing on what he accepts in a contract. If he can make a personal financial sacrifice to help acquire better players for the team, and help make the team more evenly compensated as a whole, then it seems that would be the best thing to do, no?

 

[VikingFan2k2]

The other side of the coin is that his teammates would have more respect for him. If he is willing to take less, that means there is more money available on their team.

I don't think NFL players that came before him should have any bearing on what he accepts in a contract. If he can make a personal financial sacrifice to help acquire better players for the team, and help make the team more evenly compensated as a whole, then it seems that would be the best thing to do, no?

Exactly, it was refreshing, And now he's not married to that aforementioned Supermodel and has a 200 million dollar broadcasting contract on the table from Fox. He wouldn't have that deal if he didn't have 7 rings, largely as a result of his not taking top, top dollar.

 

[Duffman]

One of these is Wilson and the other is Mahomes, anyone who thinks Russ is even partly to blame is clearly biased against him.

Completion %	65.5	65.4
Yards	803	791
Yds/Att	7.1	7.6
TD	7	6
INT	2	2
QB Rating	99.5	99.5

 

[belcherboy]

One of these is Wilson and the other is Mahomes, anyone who thinks Russ is even partly to blame is clearly biased against him.

Completion %	65.5	65.4
Yards	803	791
Yds/Att	7.1	7.6
TD	7	6
INT	2	2
QB Rating	99.5	99.5

This is Wilson's and Mahomes splits. Wilson has been a TERRIBLE 2nd half QB. Now, when the game is basically over at halftime, it may make it hard to feel motivated to play better.

 

[Duffman]

This is Wilson's and Mahomes splits. Wilson has been a TERRIBLE 2nd half QB. Now, when the game is basically over at halftime, it may make it hard to feel motivated to play better.

View attachment 341645

Yes, Wilson has been better in the first half, but the only game that was “over by halftime” was the Miami game, Denver lead both the Raiders and Commanders games at halftime.

Coming in to week 2 Denver had the best touchdown-drives ratio in the NFL, so clearly once the defense shit the bed in the second half and the offense couldn’t maintain that level of consistent play, things got worse.

 

[PolarVortex]

The other side of the coin is that his teammates would have more respect for him. If he is willing to take less, that means there is more money available on their team.

I don't think NFL players that came before him should have any bearing on what he accepts in a contract. If he can make a personal financial sacrifice to help acquire better players for the team, and help make the team more evenly compensated as a whole, then it seems that would be the best thing to do, no?

I don't disagree. But, that isn't how their union, or any union operates. That's all I'm saying.

 

[fastforward]

This is Wilson's and Mahomes splits. Wilson has been a TERRIBLE 2nd half QB. Now, when the game is basically over at halftime, it may make it hard to feel motivated to play better.

View attachment 341645

Stats aren't wrong but stats don't have context either. I remember not so many years back when Denver had Flacco playing for them. In 1 game with Flacco they were 2 scores behind with about 8 minutes left in the game. Flacco dinked and dunked his way down the field to score a TD with about 20 seconds left in the game. That 7 minute plus drive made his personal stats look pretty good, but it wasn't really done with a view to helping his team win the game. There wasn't time for an onside kick and a 2nd drive. Garbage time is garbage time regardless of whether the stats are good or bad.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

One of these is Wilson and the other is Mahomes, anyone who thinks Russ is even partly to blame is clearly biased against him.

Completion %	65.5	65.4
Yards	803	791
Yds/Att	7.1	7.6
TD	7	6
INT	2	2
QB Rating	99.5	99.5

Going to be petty and point out Russ has an 9.6 sack %, while Mahomes is at 0.9%. But yeah Russ isn't really to blame this year.

 

[Breed]

Yeah, Russ has been about the middle of the pack... He wasn't that good though in the last half of that game after being up 21-3... 7 sacks in that game... Too many... Hail Mary pass was lucky even though it still hit's his stat line in a positive way...

Has Wilson been good in any 2nd half of any game since becoming a Bronco?

And Payton's been shitty as hell since taking over as HC.

Both of em are some fakin n shakin ass0s.

 

[Breed]

This is Wilson's and Mahomes splits. Wilson has been a TERRIBLE 2nd half QB.

This ^^^^^ Ol' has played the 2nd half of games like some hot dog shit on some cold horse shit since he got to Denver. He was pretty shitty in the 1st half of games last year as well.

He's been better this year 1st half-wise making his shitty 2nd half play even stranger.

 

[Duffman]

This ^^^^^ Ol' has played the 2nd half of games like some hot dog shit on some cold horse shit since he got to Denver. He was pretty shitty in the 1st half of games last year as well.

He's been better this year 1st half-wise making his shitty 2nd half play even stranger.

Just like when a bad offense tires out a defense a bad defense tires out offense. Denver is I believe Top 5 in fewest 3 and outs this year(yes even taking into account the 2nd half) meaning they aren’t just going out there and shitting the bed, they are actually putting some drives together but when the Defense is crap there’s only so much the Offense can do.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Just like when a bad offense tires out a defense a bad defense tires out offense. Denver is I believe Top 5 in fewest 3 and outs this year(yes even taking into account the 2nd half) meaning they aren’t just going out there and shitting the bed, they are actually putting some drives together but when the Defense is crap there’s only so much the Offense can do.

That 24 missed tackles is probably the most glaring stat there is. The Dolphins were taking what should have been 4-5 yard gains to the house all day and the defense was abysmal. Some of those misses were simply "don't give a fuck" efforts. As professionals, they should show some pride. Back to Russ, he has been middle of the pack okay which is a far cry better than last year. But, unfortunately, last year is still fresh in everyone's memory and they are losing so he will always take some heat. I just think too many people over rated how good the rest of the roster was in the first place and now the defense that was a staple has turned into a pumpkin. They are looking at a rebuild here and Payton would just be wise to "no comment" everything and actually do some coaching and change the culture. All his yapping has done is fracture an already fragile locker room. They do have a couple of "get right" games coming with the Bears and Jets so maybe they can get a couple wins and quiet the noise.

 

[belcherboy]

Stats aren't wrong but stats don't have context either. I remember not so many years back when Denver had Flacco playing for them. In 1 game with Flacco they were 2 scores behind with about 8 minutes left in the game. Flacco dinked and dunked his way down the field to score a TD with about 20 seconds left in the game. That 7 minute plus drive made his personal stats look pretty good, but it wasn't really done with a view to helping his team win the game. There wasn't time for an onside kick and a 2nd drive. Garbage time is garbage time regardless of whether the stats are good or bad.

Stats in this case tell a distinct story. Russell can't make adjustments any longer. He use to be the energizer bunny and scramble his way into making something out of nothing. Now, he's older and slower. He seems to function decently well in the first half, but seems to run out of gas early in the second half. It would almost be better to start Russell and sit him in the 2nd half.

It's weird you mention garbage time because that is usually when players get better stats. His stats get distinctively worse.

Maybe he just needs a bit more time to work back to being effective for a full game (heck they'd take 3 quarters of decent play now), but I just don't see Payton waiting much longer. Russell will probably be a big financial weight to the Broncos for a few more years, but with such a nice crop of QB's likely coming to the 2024 draft, it's time to move on.

 

[Breed]

Just like when a bad offense tires out a defense a bad defense tires out offense. Denver is I believe Top 5 in fewest 3 and outs this year(yes even taking into account the 2nd half) meaning they aren’t just going out there and shitting the bed, they are actually putting some drives together but when the Defense is crap there’s only so much the Offense can do.

Yeah, Griffin's not wrong. In the last 6 quarters they've given up 91 points. So they bare a big responsibility for Denver's current state. I wouldn't leave Payton out the mix either. Seems like his hyper my way or the highway coaching isn't working out.

 

[belcherboy]

Yeah, Griffin's not wrong. In the last 6 quarters they've given up 91 points. So they bare a big responsibility for Denver's current state. I wouldn't leave Payton out the mix either. Seems like his hyper my way or the highway coaching isn't working out.

I don't think I understand the criticisms of Payton so far. This is a team that hasn't had a winning season since 2016. What approach should he take with these guys? The team and its culture has to burn to the ground, in my opinion, and Payton seems to be trying to throw gas on it to speed it up.

Everything from the QB to the defense is wrong with this team right now. Although maybe I'm being too tough on them as it is only week 3.

We'll see if Payton is as good a coach as some think he is (I don't think he's had any real success outside Brees), but this team needs someone to smack it around right now. Payton seems like just the guy.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I don't think I understand the criticisms of Payton so far. This is a team that hasn't had a winning season since 2016. What approach should he take with these guys? The team and its culture has to burn to the ground, in my opinion, and Payton seems to be trying to throw gas on it to speed it up.

Everything from the QB to the defense is wrong with this team right now. Although maybe I'm being too tough on them as it is only week 3.

We'll see if Payton is as good a coach as some think he is (I don't think he's had any real success outside Brees), but this team needs someone to smack it around right now. Payton seems like just the guy.

I think most people would be in agreement with you about Payton had he not been trash talking about the job Hackett did last year and now the team looks much worse than this time last year. And Payton stands at the mike and deflects blame all over the place. It's just such a bad look all around. It's not so much about the Broncos losing as much as it is the way they are losing. A lot of blame to go around for that but Payton needs to man up if he wants to get any respect from the men he's leading.

 

[belcherboy]

I think most people would be in agreement with you about Payton had he not been trash talking about the job Hackett did last year and now the team looks much worse than this time last year. And Payton stands at the mike and deflects blame all over the place. It's just such a bad look all around. It's not so much about the Broncos losing as much as it is the way they are losing. A lot of blame to go around for that but Payton needs to man up if he wants to get any respect from the men he's leading.

I can understand the criticisms of Payton, but when you take a big step away and see the entire organization from the past 7 years, you see that it's like someone blaming their lung cancer on the air quality in their city when they've been a 3 pack a day smoker. I blame little to nothing on Payton.

It seems that by Payton's behavior, he isn't wasting time. He's burning bridges. It looks like he wants nothing to do with what has been built in Denver. I think he views it as a complete demo job. I really think he is trying to do his best to run Russell out of town. I don't know how successful he will be in doing that, but he is going to create the team he wants to coach. We'll see if he can do it and if it is successful once built.

 

[fastforward]

Stats in this case tell a distinct story. Russell can't make adjustments any longer. He use to be the energizer bunny and scramble his way into making something out of nothing. Now, he's older and slower. He seems to function decently well in the first half, but seems to run out of gas early in the second half. It would almost be better to start Russell and sit him in the 2nd half.

It's weird you mention garbage time because that is usually when players get better stats. His stats get distinctively worse.

Maybe he just needs a bit more time to work back to being effective for a full game (heck they'd take 3 quarters of decent play now), but I just don't see Payton waiting much longer. Russell will probably be a big financial weight to the Broncos for a few more years, but with such a nice crop of QB's likely coming to the 2024 draft, it's time to move on.

1 of the complaints Seahawks fans had with Wilson was his propensity to play 'Hero Ball' later in games. He would turn down safe short/mid yardage plays for riskier chunk yardage plays. For sure he's now less agile or elusive and he struggles to extend plays by escaping from the pocket. A big part of successful Rams defensive game plans for him were based on edge control rather than immediate pass rush. He's not going to be a great come-from-behind QB these days, but he is is going to try, and trying with his style will produce bad stats.

I won't be shocked if the Broncos choose to move on. However his 2024 money is fully guaranteed so cutting him would be an expensive waste. His 2025 money guarantees before the 2024 season so that would also be expensive. I'm sure there's a team out there that can live with him as a veteran QB for the next 2 years. After that he can be cut.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Really big difference between pick 5 and pick 2 on something like this. I'm not even sure they should trade down at 5. Edge would be big for them. 2? Trade down to around 5. If you think a franchise LT is there then you take him, too. Bolles seems a bit frustrated and might not be on the team a couple of years from now.

I think what will happen is that Sean Payton will use next year's offseason to fill out low positional value spots and build a physical team that runs the ball. Kind of like what Atlanta is now expect speeding up the process and doing it while they still have their Matt Ryan.

Nobody could see it last year when various Hawks fans kept saying this, Wilson's tackles HATE playing for him, because he drops so fuckin' far back and breaks the pocket 24/7 while hanging onto the ball forever... Duane Brown was visibly screaming at him in 2021.

When you drop back 10+ yards it's a piece of cake for EDGE to blow by your tackles.... and then what does Wilson do instead of stepping up in the pocket? He rolls out breaking containment all together lol.