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Is Russ being scapegoated this year?

flyerhawk

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In a weird way I think we saw how effective Miami's system was, too. When the Chiefs put it into 2nd gear against Chicago and Gabbert came in the day was pretty much over for the Chiefs. Miami kept going.

We're going to see who actually wants to play next week. There have been signs of a functioning offense for Denver but turnovers and bad defense is a combination that gets you routed.

Yeah. I thought that Payton would be good for Russ. But so far, he seems focused on blaming others for the team's failure. If your team blows a 3 TD lead, that isn't on the QB. If your team gives up 70 and basically never stops the other team's offense, that isn't on the QB.
 

Clayton

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Yeah. I thought that Payton would be good for Russ. But so far, he seems focused on blaming others for the team's failure. If your team blows a 3 TD lead, that isn't on the QB. If your team gives up 70 and basically never stops the other team's offense, that isn't on the QB.
FWIW, I've never really been a huge Payton fan but I assumed this year was a wash because it was going to take him a year to build the team in his image. Next year is really when I'll be judging Payton. This year is about Russ and he seems to be...alright.
 

flyerhawk

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FWIW, I've never really been a huge Payton fan but I assumed this year was a wash because it was going to take him a year to build the team in his image. Next year is really when I'll be judging Payton. This year is about Russ and he seems to be...alright.

Honestly, if the Broncos can get a top 5 pick, they could use that to rebuild their team by drafting down. IF, they stick with Russ. if they go QB then they are probably screwed for the next 4-6 years.
 

Clayton

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Honestly, if the Broncos can get a top 5 pick, they could use that to rebuild their team by drafting down. IF, they stick with Russ. if they go QB then they are probably screwed for the next 4-6 years.
Really big difference between pick 5 and pick 2 on something like this. I'm not even sure they should trade down at 5. Edge would be big for them. 2? Trade down to around 5. If you think a franchise LT is there then you take him, too. Bolles seems a bit frustrated and might not be on the team a couple of years from now.

I think what will happen is that Sean Payton will use next year's offseason to fill out low positional value spots and build a physical team that runs the ball. Kind of like what Atlanta is now expect speeding up the process and doing it while they still have their Matt Ryan.
 

flyerhawk

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Really big difference between pick 5 and pick 2 on something like this. I'm not even sure they should trade down at 5. Edge would be big for them. 2? Trade down to around 5. If you think a franchise LT is there then you take him, too. Bolles seems a bit frustrated and might not be on the team a couple of years from now.

I think what will happen is that Sean Payton will use next year's offseason to fill out low positional value spots and build a physical team that runs the ball. Kind of like what Atlanta is now expect speeding up the process and doing it while they still have their Matt Ryan.

They might not trade down. But they gave up a LOT to get Russ and Payton. Recouping some of those picks would help a lot.

I don't see Payton going for the 3 year plan though. And I don't see him dumping Russ unless he has a viable alternative.
 

Clayton

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They might not trade down. But they gave up a LOT to get Russ and Payton. Recouping some of those picks would help a lot.

I don't see Payton going for the 3 year plan though. And I don't see him dumping Russ unless he has a viable alternative.
I think Payton chose Denver for stability. Russ is good enough to win games. The owners are wealthy and allegedly he thinks the NFL hates him because of what happened in New Orleans. (possibly to the point of tin foil stuff).

When the Chiefs traded up for Mahomes, they did so specifically to jump Sean Payton. Saints really werent even expected to be in the QB market at the time. I dont think it would be shocking at all for Payton to draft Russ' replacement.
 

flyerhawk

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I think Payton chose Denver for stability. Russ is good enough to win games. The owners are wealthy and allegedly he thinks the NFL hates him because of what happened in New Orleans. (possibly to the point of tin foil stuff).

When the Chiefs traded up for Mahomes, they did so specifically to jump Sean Payton. Saints really werent even expected to be in the QB market at the time. I dont think it would be shocking at all for Payton to draft Russ' replacement.

It's possible. Who the heck knows with Payton. He could be done with Russ or it is all just bullshit he feeds the press.
 

PolarVortex

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Haven't heard anyone blaming RW for yesterday's game. If anything, it will probably take some of the failure focus off of him. After the shit he pulled his last few years in Seattle, I certainly don't feel sorry for him. But, yeah, like many in here have said already, Denver's defensive performance in the last six quarters is not his fault.
 

VikingFan2k2

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spider man film GIF


When the Dolphins decided to kneel out the clock instead of going for the all time scoring record in a game.

You know if the shoe were on the other foot that Payton goes for the record and flips off the Dolphins after.

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Anointed One

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Haven't heard anyone blaming RW for yesterday's game. If anything, it will probably take some of the failure focus off of him. After the shit he pulled his last few years in Seattle, I certainly don't feel sorry for him. But, yeah, like many in here have said already, Denver's defensive performance in the last six quarters is not his fault.
Isn't their defense in the spot its in due on part to the Russell Wilson acquisition?

They traded all those draft picks along with DL Shelby Harris, Chubb,
 

PolarVortex

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Isn't their defense in the spot its in due on part to the Russell Wilson acquisition?

They traded all those draft picks along with DL Shelby Harris, Chubb,
True, but that still isn't Russell's fault. The honor for that dumbassery goes to the GM and HC at the time of the trade. I guess you could say that Wilson's hit on the salary cap (and how that affects the available cap space for defensive upgrades) is his fault, but, he has an obligation to the players union to pursue the maximum amount of his value in dollars. When the pay scale of the top players goes up, the pay scale of the mid-tier players goes up as well.
 

VikingFan2k2

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True, but that still isn't Russell's fault. The honor for that dumbassery goes to the GM and HC at the time of the trade. I guess you could say that Wilson's hit on the salary cap (and how that affects the available cap space for defensive upgrades) is his fault, but, he has an obligation to the players union to pursue the maximum amount of his value in dollars. When the pay scale of the top players goes up, the pay scale of the mid-tier players goes up as well.

Why? The next QB that comes up won't be negatively affected by what a mid 30s Russell Wilson makes.

I am not blaming the guy, get your money. But when it comes down to money or winning, I just don't understand why a guy with an already ungodly amount of it would choose cash over hardware.
 

PolarVortex

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Why? The next QB that comes up won't be negatively affected by what a mid 30s Russell Wilson makes.

I am not blaming the guy, get your money. But when it comes down to money or winning, I just don't understand why a guy with an already ungodly amount of it would choose cash over hardware.
Why? Because that's the way unions work. The union comes first.
 

Dr. Strangelove

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Isn't their defense in the spot its in due on part to the Russell Wilson acquisition?

They traded all those draft picks along with DL Shelby Harris, Chubb,
I'm not so sure Harris made a difference tbh. They could maybe point to Chubb as an unsignable asset so got what they could for him. But they were still a top 10 defense last year so this level of fall off is pretty remarkable. I question their mental toughness at times more than their talent. Even though Miami put up 3 TDs early, they were still in the game at 21-10 late in the first half but those quick turnovers and quick scores late broke their spirit. They essentially mailed it in the second half of that game. You could see it with the tackling effort. Miami was executing and calling great plays but some of those long ones should have been stopped at 6-7 yards. Giving up 3 TDs to the back-ups in the 4th qtr is inexcusable, imo. Surtain is supposed to be an all pro and he let a practice squad WR with a stupid name run right by him untouched. Payton has already lost the locker room, imo because he talks about everybody else and doesn't take accountability.
 

shopson67

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Their OL and DL are weak. Middle to average at best.

RB isn't good either.

WRs are decent, but not a game-breaker over the top kind of guy. Face it, Jeudy is a bust. Mims is likely the guy they need to feed more.

Their specialty dudes are built to grind, but the OL isn't built to grind.

Mims seems easily their most explosive player, yet he only gets what, 15 snaps a game?
 
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