Is Luka for AD the most shocking trade of all time

[tlance]

There's literally no one in the league the Warriors would trade Curry for, unless he asks them to trade him. Not SGA, not Jokic, no one. And that's not because they think he's better, it's simply not how you run a quality franchise.

Yep.

Said this a few posts ago.

Curry is a Warrior until he decides the run is over.

Just like Kobe.

Very few players earn the right to choose that. Curry is 1.

 

[flyerhawk]

To me he's arguing that the trade isn't nearly as lopsided as most are freaking out about, and he convinced me of that. Some folks are definitely going overboard with the Luka talk especially Mavs fans. He's great, and has potential to be greater. Also potential to do a semi Zion and never reach it.

As tlance points out, unlike most superstar trades that bring back 50 cents on the dollar, Dallas got back more like 85 cents when you factor it all in (an older but almost same level star, a useful young player, a 1st, getting rid of bad contracts, and not having to supermax a guy they decided they didn't want to). This new guy is a spectrumy prick, but he makes some very good points.

I don't see it as .85 cents on the dollar. Because AD is almost 32 and not exactly an exemplar of health. Which means they have a very small window to succeed in.

The chances that this Mavs team can even make the conference finals are pretty slim. And given the age of their 2 stars, the chances of them contending for a title get worse every year.

Assuming that winning titles is the objective of ownership.

 

[msgkings322]

Yep.

Said this a few posts ago.

Curry is a Warrior until he decides the run is over.

Just like Kobe.

Very few players earn the right to choose that. Curry is 1.

With his obvious decline really hitting this year, I think/hope he will retire after this contract is up in 2027 but we'll see. He'll be 39 years old then...I guess he could sign a small one year deal with a contender if he wants one more ring but doesn't seem like his style. It'd be different if he hadn't won so many already.

 

[msgkings322]

I don't see it as .85 cents on the dollar. Because AD is almost 32 and not exactly an exemplar of health. Which means they have a very small window to succeed in.

The chances that this Mavs team can even make the conference finals are pretty slim. And given the age of their 2 stars, the chances of them contending for a title get worse every year.

Assuming that winning titles is the objective of ownership.

AD is 65 cents of the 85 though, there's other stuff Dallas got

 

[flyerhawk]

AD is 65 cents of the 85 though, there's other stuff Dallas got

A Lakers 29 1st round pick and a role player don't seem all that compelling.

 

[tlance]

AD is 65 cents of the 85 though, there's other stuff Dallas got

Yeah, was not a 1 for 1 deal

 

[msgkings322]

A Lakers 29 1st round pick and a role player don't seem all that compelling.

Got rid of bad contracts and avoided paying a supermax to someone they didn't want to. Those are all valuable. AD is the compelling part, the rest is not chopped liver.

AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN I think LA got the better haul. That's a long way from saying Dallas got fleeced. They are taking a big risk but it could very well pay off.

 

[tc1]

Not everything needs laser precision to make sense in good natured internet sports arguments.

I didn't ask for any lasers, just some consistency.

Very recently, before his off-court issues, Morant was being discussed as a face-of-the-league candidate. Now you've got him not even in the MVP caliber discussion, despite including some, well, interesting choices.

Most people who post in places like this have some heuristics for categorizing players and 'MVP type/MVP caliber' is an imprecise but generally understood term. The last team to win a title without one was the 2004 Pistons (one reason I call Larry Brown GOAT basketball (not just NBA) coach)

Well, like I said, when you throw a big net, you're going to catch a lot of fish. If almost all of the top half of the league has an "MVP caliber player", most champs will too. This is not very instructive from a roster-construction standpoint -- a bit like saying "If you want to win the title, don't suck."

You like doing things your way, good for you. But you're undercutting some good arguments with your dickish attitude.

I continue to find it interesting that I don't resort to calling people childish names, don't resort to insulting people's mothers, and don't engage in the creepy stalker behavior of some here -- and I'm the one being called a dick, despite the fact all I have done is talk basketball, on a forum where that is allegedly the preferred topic.

If I've allegedly undermined my arguments, what the hell have these others been doing with their nonstop ad hominem attacks, even on my mother?

I suggest that you need to calibrate your dick meter a lot more accurately -- although not with a laser.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

It's pretty clear that the Mavs did not want to give Luka the supermax dues to his weight. The same weight he carried as he played like a top 5 player. By only shopping him to LA, I guess due to his love for AD, Nico really has screwed himself.

Reminds of when Wes Unseld traded Chris Weber for an over the hill Mitch Richmond and and equally over the hill Otis Thorpe. When Bullets fans learned he only contacted Golden State and other GMs were making similar comments about not even knowing he was on the block and would have offered more Wes got destroyed.

 

[flyerhawk]

Got rid of bad contracts and avoided paying a supermax to someone they didn't want to. Those are all valuable. AD is the compelling part, the rest is not chopped liver.

AGAIN AGAIN AGAIN I think LA got the better haul. That's a long way from saying Dallas got fleeced. They are taking a big risk but it could very well pay off.

I don't think that Dallas got fleeced per se. I think it was a terrible trade that they chose to make for purely financial reasons.

The Red Sox trading Mookie Betts was a terrible trade. They weren't fleeced because their primary concern was not paying Betts. And Mavs fans are feeling just as pissed about this deal as Red Sox were about letting Betts go.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I didn't ask for any lasers, just some consistency.

Very recently, before his off-court issues, Morant was being discussed as a face-of-the-league candidate. Now you've got him not even in the MVP caliber discussion, despite including some, well, interesting choices.



Well, like I said, when you throw a big net, you're going to catch a lot of fish. If almost all of the top half of the league has an "MVP caliber player", most champs will too. This is not very instructive from a roster-construction standpoint -- a bit like saying "If you want to win the title, don't suck."



I continue to find it interesting that I don't resort to calling people childish names, don't resort to insulting people's mothers, and don't engage in the creepy stalker behavior of some here -- and I'm the one being called a dick, despite the fact all I have done is talk basketball, on a forum where that is allegedly the preferred topic.

If I've allegedly undermined my arguments, what the hell have these others been doing with their nonstop ad hominem attacks, even on my mother?

I suggest that you need to calibrate your dick meter a lot more accurately -- although not with a laser.

You are still at it? You are new here and come in with this condescending tone throughout the thread and can't figure out why you are getting pushback? Has anyone agreed with your points? That's usually a sign that you are wrong.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't think that Dallas got fleeced per se. I think it was a terrible trade that they chose to make for purely financial reasons.

The Red Sox trading Mookie Betts was a terrible trade. They weren't fleeced because their primary concern was not paying Betts. And Mavs fans are feeling just as pissed about this deal as Red Sox were about letting Betts go.

Good analogy, I've been thinking the same thing.

 

[msgkings322]

I didn't ask for any lasers, just some consistency.

Very recently, before his off-court issues, Morant was being discussed as a face-of-the-league candidate. Now you've got him not even in the MVP caliber discussion, despite including some, well, interesting choices.

He's still a potential 'MVP type' player. There's maybe 8-10 of those in the league at any given time. Luka is, AD is very very close, could be if he played like 2020 all season (a big if for sure)

Well, like I said, when you throw a big net, you're going to catch a lot of fish. If almost all of the top half of the league has an "MVP caliber player", most champs will too. This is not very instructive from a roster-construction standpoint -- a bit like saying "If you want to win the title, don't suck."

A bit strawmanny here. Again, most fans know what is meant by 'MVP type' and most fans know why the 2004 Pistons are unique in that regard. You do too, playing dumb is a bad look.

I continue to find it interesting that I don't resort to calling people childish names, don't resort to insulting people's mothers, and don't engage in the creepy stalker behavior of some here -- and I'm the one being called a dick, despite the fact all I have done is talk basketball, on a forum where that is allegedly the preferred topic.

If I've allegedly undermined my arguments, what the hell have these others been doing with their nonstop ad hominem attacks, even on my mother?

I suggest that you need to calibrate your dick meter a lot more accurately -- although not with a laser.

Playing dumb is your lamest and weakest troll technique. You insult us all with your supercilious comments about how we're dumb for not agreeing with your every utterance. Not going to waste time on examples, we both know what I mean.

Don't come in hot like this then cry about others being mean to you. There are many ways to 'talk basketball' and if you choose this method you have to be man enough to get some grief for it.

 

[flyerhawk]

I didn't ask for any lasers, just some consistency.

Very recently, before his off-court issues, Morant was being discussed as a face-of-the-league candidate. Now you've got him not even in the MVP caliber discussion, despite including some, well, interesting choices.

Because Morant hasn't played at anywhere close to an MVP level in 4 years. Is he even the best player on the Grizz this year?

Well, like I said, when you throw a big net, you're going to catch a lot of fish. If almost all of the top half of the league has an "MVP caliber player", most champs will too. This is not very instructive from a roster-construction standpoint -- a bit like saying "If you want to win the title, don't suck."

That isn't what I said. I should have known better than to actually answer your question because it was an obvious set up. If I listed out people like Edwards or Wemby as not being MVP level you would have pounced on that eventhough neither is currently close to an MVP level player. Same with Curry.

I continue to find it interesting that I don't resort to calling people childish names, don't resort to insulting people's mothers, and don't engage in the creepy stalker behavior of some here -- and I'm the one being called a dick, despite the fact all I have done is talk basketball, on a forum where that is allegedly the preferred topic.

You are being called a dick for both your bad faith tactics and your tone.

If I've allegedly undermined my arguments, what the hell have these others been doing with their nonstop ad hominem attacks, even on my mother?

I suggest that you need to calibrate your dick meter a lot more accurately -- although not with a laser.

Neither MSG or I made a single comment about your mother. Neither one of us is stalking you.

 

[msgkings322]

I don't think that Dallas got fleeced per se. I think it was a terrible trade that they chose to make for purely financial reasons.

The Red Sox trading Mookie Betts was a terrible trade. They weren't fleeced because their primary concern was not paying Betts. And Mavs fans are feeling just as pissed about this deal as Red Sox were about letting Betts go.

Good analogy. Dallas got back more than Boston did there. So does that make the Betts trade the worst ever?

 

[tc1]

You are still at it? You are new here and come in with this condescending tone throughout the thread and can't figure out why you are getting pushback?

You think an appropriate level of discourse is insulting strangers' mothers? Yes, I am absolutely condescending to people who behave in that manner, and who were apparently raised in caves.

Has anyone agreed with your points? That's usually a sign that you are wrong.

Yes, some people do agree with me, first of all, and secondly, being disagreed with by people who have demonstrated, at-best, very limited knowledge on the topic, does not comport with your claim.

I understand that many people are disappointed to discover that they don't know as much as they assumed they did, and are lashing out with insults as a result, and I'm not surprised by that, since it is very common among this demographic, and I've seen it a million times before.

 

[tlance]

You think an appropriate level of discourse is insulting strangers' mothers? Yes, I am absolutely condescending to people who behave in that manner, and who were apparently raised in caves.



Yes, some people do agree with me, first of all, and secondly, being disagreed with by people who have demonstrated, at-best, very limited knowledge on the topic, does not comport with your claim.

I understand that many people are disappointed to discover that they don't know as much as they assumed they did, and are lashing out with insults as a result, and I'm not surprised by that, since it is very common among this demographic, and I've seen it a million times before.

So…

What I gather here is that you have been received like this in other sports forums?

That would make you the common denominator

Doesn’t take much intelligence to figure that one out.

 

[tc1]

Because Morant hasn't played at anywhere close to an MVP level in 4 years.

He was 7th in MVP voting 3 years ago, and 12th two years ago -- and didn't play last year. Try again -- or maybe don't.

That isn't what I said. I should have known better than to actually answer your question because it was an obvious set up. If I listed out people like Edwards or Wemby as not being MVP level you would have pounced on that eventhough neither is currently close to an MVP level player. Same with Curry.

I asked how many teams lack an MVP caliber player. You listed half the league, almost exclusively the bottom half. That means you think about half the league does have an MVP caliber player.

So yeah, that is what you said.

You are being called a dick for both your bad faith tactics and your tone.

What "bad faith" tactics? My tone has resulted from being personally attacked by people who were otherwise unable to formulate a response -- and anyone who received such, deserved what they got.

Neither MSG or I made a single comment about your mother. Neither one of us is stalking you.

I don't care to go back and look who it was, but not one person remarked on the inappropriateness of such -- and a few people liked the comment, or riffed on it. I have a couple stalkers here, but I didn't say that everyone is. Congrats on clearing that bar, while it sits on the ground.

Anyone chiding me for my behavior -- and not the regulars here who have been trying to drum me out with insults -- is a complete hypocrite.

If y'all spent more time discussing basketball, and less time on the childish behavior, a newb wouldn't be able to walk in and embarrass most of you into resorting to those insults in the first place.

 

[tc1]

So…

What I gather here is that you have been received like this in other sports forums?

That would make you the common denominator

Doesn’t take much intelligence to figure that one out.

Wow Sherlock, you got me. I am the first and only person to be insulted on the Internet. I bet you thought that was a real profound observation, didn't ya?

 

[flyerhawk]

He was 7th in MVP voting 3 years ago, and 12th two years ago -- and didn't play last year. Try again -- or maybe don't.

If you want an example of you being a dick, this is a pretty good one. I said he hasn't played at an MVP level in 4 years and you say "He was 12th in MVP votes 3 years ago!!" And you think this is some huge gotcha you go with the snotty "Tru again, or maybe don't" as if you just conclusively proved me wrong.

I asked how many teams lack an MVP caliber player. You listed half the league, almost exclusively the bottom half. That means you think about half the league does have an MVP caliber player.

So yeah, that is what you said.

I listed 16 teams that clearly don't. Then I pointed out 4 more teams that didn't really. So now we 66% of teams that don't have MVP caliber players. I could brought up the Clippers who don't really have one at this point either or the Suns who have one player that is clearly past that window and another who has been very good but hasn't quite reached that top 5 level of play. I could have brought up the Pelicans who have a player that has the talent to be an MVP level player but can't stay on the court. So now we are down to 7 teams qualify.

If you were looking to have a discussion in a respectful way you would have actually talked about these players but instead you wanted to dismiss my entire point out of hand because you are more interested in "winning"

What "bad faith" tactics? My tone has resulted from being personally attacked by people who were otherwise unable to formulate a response -- and anyone who received such, deserved what they got.

I have not attacked you in any way other to criticize your tone and tactics. You justify using those tactics because other people have allegely attacked you.

I don't care to go back and look who it was, but not one person remarked on the inappropriateness of such -- and a few people liked the comment, or riffed on it. I have a couple stalkers here, but I didn't say that everyone is. Congrats on clearing that bar, while it sits on the ground.

I have no idea what you are talking about. But, of course, you choose to make another shitty comment about me clear some low bar.

Anyone chiding me for my behavior -- and not the regulars here who have been trying to drum me out with insults -- is a complete hypocrite.

If y'all spent more time discussing basketball, and less time on the childish behavior, a newb wouldn't be able to walk in and embarrass most of you into resorting to those insults in the first place.

LOL. You are a legend in your own mind.

It's an anonymous message board. There will always be people that focus on insulting others. If you think that justifies you doing the same then you are no different than they are.