Is Luka for AD the most shocking trade of all time

[msgkings322]

Haha....in fact, while I believe he has one of the all time foolish points I've seen in SportsHoopla I happen to agree with a lot of his comments in this thread.

Because, you know, post over poster. Hopefully others will consider what he's saying and not just assume because they don't care for him his points must be off base.....and, yes, he could stand to listen more to what others have to say.

Yeah I just posted that, this guy knows his stuff but he's obviously got his persona and it's as dickish as it gets. Feels a little spectrum-y, more so than even you in a pages long debate about nothing.

 

[flyerhawk]

Iverson was not a good defender by any modern metrics.

He received accolades back when writers only knew how to count stats like steals and blocks.

He gambled a lot, was out of position as a result and was small enough that most players could get their shots over him.

If Iverson was playing today, he would be constantly hunted on defense to get an open 3. It is really tough to be 6' and be a good defender in the league.

 

[dtgold88]

I haven't been posting as much here given the state of my team and how depressing this season has been. So I wasn't really aware of him until this discussion. But yeah, he's clearly one of those types that likes to dance around a topic and use tangential points to "win" the argument.

Not sure he's ever been in this forum......but if only you should have seen his argument that Oregon deserved to share the national title even if they lost their first game (which they did).

That said, I happen to agree with many of his points in THIS thread.....if only he could accept other points that refute his comments and there have been some.

 

[dtgold88]

Yep, Dallas maybe ran out of things to try...a trade like this + LeBron might end up making Luka reach his potential (he's already great)

In a few years, I may look back and think I undervalued him, it's part of the fun of sports. For now Dallas took a big risk based on their own info, risks sometimes work and sometimes not.

Ya don't need to tell any Browns fans this that's for sure.

 

[tlance]

Just not something fans are used to seeing. Usually when a guy like this (or maybe slightly lesser level) is moved it's because he has implied he does not want to stay and/or team wants to rebuild right away. Did Doncic imply the former? Not sure, but clearly Dallas made this deal looking to win now.

The usual return of younger, cheaper guys, maybe older guys with expiring deals and a bunch of picks not what they were looking for.......and AD is still a damn good player.

Truly unprecedented in the NBA

Interestingly, what some are calling “the worst trade in NBA history” might actually be one of the more balanced superstar trades in league history.

Star for star. 1 guy is younger and has a higher ceiling, so Dallas got a pick and a prospect for a couple bad contracts.

It is impossible to evaluate the actual value of the typical 5 pick for star that we usually see from teams heading in opposite directions. Too many variables there.

And the team dealing the superstar never gets equal value. This one is at least about 80 - 85 cents on the dollar.

I’m sure others would have offered what they deemed stronger packages, but sounds like Nico knew what he wanted.

 

[flyerhawk]

He actually just showed up when the trade happened I think. I like him, new blood, knows his stuff, and plenty of assholery to get things going here. Our asshole quotient was low after funbags left (and came back, and then left again).

I'm fine with him. You and I deal with far worse over in the PF. But I honestly don't even know what he is arguing. The only point he has overtly made is that Luka is being overvalued by people here, which is an argument that doesn't jibe with reality.

 

[msgkings322]

What players do you think that their respective teams would not have been willing to trade for Luka?

Wemby, Giannis, and Jokic are probably the only 2 players I would say that the teams would say no immediately to. SGA and Tatum would probably be no as well after a little thought more because of the chemistry of their teams than a belief that they are better than Luka.

Who else after that?

Curry is another, but not for basketball reasons

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah I just posted that, this guy knows his stuff but he's obviously got his persona and it's as dickish as it gets. Feels a little spectrum-y, more so than even you in a pages long debate about nothing.

Have to admit I still get a kick out of those comments when there are clearly many others capable of those long debates here......and over the years I have definitely been far more willing to bow out of these debacles (some still wont and will comment as long as you are willing to string them along).

 

[flyerhawk]

I’m sure others would have offered what they deemed stronger packages, but sounds like Nico knew what he wanted.

My biggest criticism of the pick was that he was so focused on getting AD that he ignored other options which gave him less negotiating power. @trojanfan12 mentioned that Pelinka actually said no to the original deal. Which he could do once he realized he was the only suitor.

 

[dtgold88]

Truly unprecedented in the NBA

Interestingly, what some are calling “the worst trade in NBA history” might actually be one of the more balanced superstar trades in league history.

Star for star. 1 guy is younger and has a higher ceiling, so Dallas got a pick and a prospect for a couple bad contracts.

It is impossible to evaluate the actual value of the typical 5 pick for star that we usually see from teams heading in opposite directions. Too many variables there.

And the team dealing the superstar never gets equal value. This one is at least about 80 - 85 cents on the dollar.

I’m sure others would have offered what they deemed stronger packages, but sounds like Nico knew what he wanted.

Yep....and maybe more teams than we might think thought the same as Nico did when it came to Luka.

If we were talking about my team (and others can try this of course) I have no clue what we'd have offered. I mean, there are offers I'm sure we'd make they'd never take.

 

[tlance]

I'm fine with him. You and I deal with far worse over in the PF. But I honestly don't even know what he is arguing. The only point he has overtly made is that Luka is being overvalued by people here, which is an argument that doesn't jibe with reality.

Especially since value is based on what the market perceives.

And the perception surrounding Luka is that almost anyone would want him as their franchise cornerstone.

Aside from maybe the 4-5 teams who have a better one.

Thinking perhaps OKC was the mystery 2nd team. Maybe Dallas was trying to get JDub and Chet? Something like that?

Which I don’t think I would do if I were OKC either. Their future looks too bright with what they already have.

 

[flyerhawk]

Curry is another, but not for basketball reasons

Yeah. Curry is a special case.

 

[tlance]

My biggest criticism of the pick was that he was so focused on getting AD that he ignored other options which gave him less negotiating power. @trojanfan12 mentioned that Pelinka actually said no to the original deal. Which he could do once he realized he was the only suitor.

Totally agree.

If nothing else, he could have used other deals to leverage more out of the Lakers.

 

[msgkings322]

I'm fine with him. You and I deal with far worse over in the PF. But I honestly don't even know what he is arguing. The only point he has overtly made is that Luka is being overvalued by people here, which is an argument that doesn't jibe with reality.

To me he's arguing that the trade isn't nearly as lopsided as most are freaking out about, and he convinced me of that. Some folks are definitely going overboard with the Luka talk especially Mavs fans. He's great, and has potential to be greater. Also potential to do a semi Zion and never reach it.

As tlance points out, unlike most superstar trades that bring back 50 cents on the dollar, Dallas got back more like 85 cents when you factor it all in (an older but almost same level star, a useful young player, a 1st, getting rid of bad contracts, and not having to supermax a guy they decided they didn't want to). This new guy is a spectrumy prick, but he makes some very good points.

 

[msgkings322]

Totally agree.

If nothing else, he could have used other deals to leverage more out of the Lakers.

Agree, but Dallas probably wanted this to be as quiet as possible knowing how the fans would react and to be respectful of Luka.

 

[flyerhawk]

Especially since value is based on what the market perceives.

And the perception surrounding Luka is that almost anyone would want him as their franchise cornerstone.

Aside from maybe the 4-5 teams who have a better one.

Thinking perhaps OKC was the mystery 2nd team. Maybe Dallas was trying to get JDub and Chet? Something like that?

Which I don’t think I would do if I were OKC either. Their future looks too bright with what they already have.

Yeah. I get why OKC might be willing to kick the tires but that team could win a few titles before they even have to pay max salaries for the young guys

 

[dtgold88]

Agree, but Dallas probably wanted this to be as quiet as possible knowing how the fans would react and to be respectful of Luka.

also possible I guess LA wanted it quiet and said take it or leave it, too.

 

[tlance]

Yep....and maybe more teams than we might think thought the same as Nico did when it came to Luka.

If we were talking about my team (and others can try this of course) I have no clue what we'd have offered. I mean, there are offers I'm sure we'd make they'd never take.

There are a couple that just probably don’t make much sense. OKC is the top name.

Cleveland? I don’t know what would make sense there honestly. There is no 1-1 deal and not sure they get better dealing 2 of their stars for Luka. Maybe long term, but if they think they can win with this core they ride it out.

Beyond that I bet every team had a price they would have jumped on.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah. Curry is a special case.

There's literally no one in the league the Warriors would trade Curry for, unless he asks them to trade him. Not SGA, not Jokic, no one. And that's not because they think he's better, it's simply not how you run a quality franchise.

 

[tlance]

Agree, but Dallas probably wanted this to be as quiet as possible knowing how the fans would react and to be respectful of Luka.

For sure