Interesting Thoughts On AP

[Manster7588]

Comp picks are a little more complicated than being made out to be. First off you need to lose more guys than you sign and the offseason isn't over. Remember the deal Hstcher signed last year and we have no comp picks this year.

Well considering two factors in awarding comp picks are salary and playing time I cant see Dallas not getting a 3rd for Murray. Of course if Dallas doesn't get a high comp pick for him it means Philly screwed the pooch on the deal. I hope we don't get squat for Murray.

Another factor is FA's picked up. Melton and Mincey more than evened out the loss of Hatcher. So far this off season we picked up no FA that could offset our losses

 

[Greg]

I truly wish this one man love affair for AP would end. Let this nonsense of a thread die.

Not really, just don't have much faith in a DMac/unproven rookie combo replacing Murray's production this season. There are reasons why DMac was signed on the cheap, and a rookie RB will not be this team's savior in this draft lol. If this team truly believes that just any RB can put up numbers behind this OL, they won't be playing for any SBs any time soon. With no serious running game to keep their team identity going, Romo will just revert back to the old Romo again by trying to do it all (and throwing away games again trying to come from behind all the time with forced throws and bad decisions), while also over-exposing a bad defense again on the field. Too much to lose here on a "maybe".

 

[UK Cowboy]

Let's just agree to disagree here. I think that it's a strong possibility that the Vikes will have to move AP either by or during the draft. If they wait any longer then that, there is a very good possibility that teams will have filled their RB needs either in the draft or via FA by then, and any potential bidders/suitors for AP would either be gone, or not willing to give up the same compensation for him after that time (in a dried up RB market....further diluting any real trade value that he may have remaining). IF, and only IF, AP is serious about wanting out that is, and tells his team that he will hold out if not traded with no chance of him changing his mind and wanting to stay there. Remember, there is really no serious financial stability remaining for him in Minny after receiving all of his guaranteed money already. Sure AP could make $12.7Mil in 2015, but without any salary restructure or any future guaranteed money, AP could be cut next season without any repercussion whatsoever for the Vikes (if he under-performs for any reason after being unhappy and held over a barrel by his team, which is never a remedy for success in this league). AP will surely want more guaranteed money now towards the end of his career, and I just don't see him extending with this Vikes organization now under any circumstances after he and his family comments about how they were treated by team (would be hypocritical). Giving up a 1st rounder to put you in serious contention to win a SB (or two) under a Romo o 2-3 year window with the best RB in football currently, behind this OL and with these weapons (QB/WR and no 8-9 man Def. fronts), versus drafting a complete unknown rookie RB to fill that same void after losing Murray, or worse, McFadden alone to replace Murray, is just not reasonable logic imo. I would still see the Seahawks in the SB again next season coming out of the NFC with that logic. IMO, AP would take less to play in Dallas, and would be willing to restructure his deal and make it cap friendly to play in Texas with no state taxes and a chance to rebuild his image and a chance to regain some of his lost endorsement deals by playing for the the highest profiled sports team in America. I would also hang the threat of suing the Vikes and league for lost compensation and damages in 2014 for an unjustified suspension (league suspended AP under NFL policy that was revised prior to his incident-which lead to the NFLPA lawsuit being successful), which would hold merit if the league loses their appeal.

Btw, comparing Murray to AD-AP is simply ridiculous imo.

No comparison between AD/AP and Murray? Really? AD has been better, no doubt. He is also 3 years older and hasn't played in a year and a half. Add to that he would cost more than Murray would have, another $10 million per year at least on a longterm deal. And that 1st round pick you are happy to send packing? In the last 5 years, the Cowboys have added Martin, Fredrick, TSmith, Mo and Dez in the 1st round. 4 Pro Bowlers, one of which is the 2nd best receiver in the league, and a bust who is at least still with the team. So there is a possible young Pro Bowl DE or FS we lose to the deal.
Now then, Murray gained what last season, 1845 yards rushing? How many more yards do you believe AP will run for next season than 1845....100? 200? 200 would put him at 2045. Do you think that adding 200 yards, $10 million in payroll and no 1st round pick puts us in the Super Bowl? And what about 3 years from now, when he's 33 and you're still paying him $10 million per?
The Cowboys are banking on a committee being able to give them 1200-1500 yards next year. 700-800 from McFadden, another 500-600 from Randle and Williams would do just that. And that's if they don't draft a Gordon or Gurley or Coleman. Pretty realistic behind this OL, and they keep the 1st rounder and can use the $10 million it would cost for AP on the defense

 

[es4m11]

It surprises me how many of you on this board have so little faith in a rookie RB coming in and being a competent replacement for Murray. Have you guys not payed attention to the last few years and taken notice to what some of these kids have done? Just in the last few years we have had the likes of Eddy Lacy, Alfred Morris, Doug Martin (rookie season), LeVeon Bell, Jeremy Hill, C.J. Anderson, Giovanni Bernard, and the list goes on... All these guys have had great production just coming into the league.

Replacing Murray will not be easy, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility, and I don't think it's a stretch to expect a rookie to be successful. Some of you on here just seem to rule out the possibility completely -- recent history seems to contradict that opinion. I get the sense that some look at Murray's massive production but discount the huge number of touches it took for Murray to accumulate those yards. As some have said, we will be replacing Murray by committee, and a rookie is most likely going to be a huge part of it. At the end of the day the O-line will prove to have more of an impact than Murray. Dallas will be a top 5 rushing attack next year, with a rookie RB seeing a large share of carries. I'll put money on it.

 

[jarntt]

It surprises me how many of you on this board have so little faith in a rookie RB coming in and being a competent replacement for Murray. Have you guys not payed attention to the last few years and taken notice to what some of these kids have done? Just in the last few years we have had the likes of Eddy Lacy, Alfred Morris, Doug Martin (rookie season), LeVeon Bell, Jeremy Hill, C.J. Anderson, Giovanni Bernard, and the list goes on... All these guys have had great production just coming into the league.

Replacing Murray will not be easy, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility, and I don't think it's a stretch to expect a rookie to be successful. Some of you on here just seem to rule out the possibility completely -- recent history seems to contradict that opinion. I get the sense that some look at Murray's massive production but discount the huge number of touches it took for Murray to accumulate those yards. As some have said, we will be replacing Murray by committee, and a rookie is most likely going to be a huge part of it. At the end of the day the O-line will prove to have more of an impact than Murray. Dallas will be a top 5 rushing attack next year, with a rookie RB seeing a large share of carries. I'll put money on it.

I think you are misunderstanding. I for one have no doubt that a rookie COULD come in and be competent. It's possible we find a guy that starts next year or at least is a big part of a committee. But you are missing the other side. It's very possible we swing and miss if we draft a rookie RB too. Even with our recent success draft picks are still a crap shoot. It's not about taking chances, it's about taking caluclated risks where you need to. You are "putting money on" on a draft pick we haven't even made yet. That doesn't seem a little crazy to you? I don't think this team is even going to draft a RB in the first two rounds personally.

 

[es4m11]

I think you are misunderstanding. I for one have no doubt that a rookie COULD come in and be competent. It's possible we find a guy that starts next year or at least is a big part of a committee. But you are missing the other side. It's very possible we swing and miss if we draft a rookie RB too. Even with our recent success draft picks are still a crap shoot. It's not about taking chances, it's about taking caluclated risks where you need to. You are "putting money on" on a draft pick we haven't even made yet. That doesn't seem a little crazy to you? I don't think this team is even going to draft a RB in the first two rounds personally.

I'm not sure what side you think I am missing...

I fully except that Dallas could swing and miss in the draft, and that I could be totally wrong about the Dallas running game next year. My whole point was that there are those on this board that dismiss the idea of replacing Murray with a rookie as outlandish, and that line of thinking, according to recent history, is false.

Dallas letting Murray go was a very "calculated" risk, the factors weighing against resigning Murray outweighed those in favor of bringing him back -- factors such as cost, current mileage, injury history, historical trends, availability of replacement, etc.. Replacing Murray wasn't about taking chances, it was about making the best decision for Dallas going forward, but chance is inherently linked to change.

And Jarntt, you misunderstand, I am not willing to bet on a rookie RB, I am willing to bet on the Dallas offensive line and coaching staff.

Jarntt, I'll make a friendly wager with you, I bet Dallas goes RB in the first 2 rounds. If I win you have to list the Baltimore Orioles as your 3 favorite teams for a month, and if you win I'll list the New York Yankees as my 3 favorite teams for a month.

 

[Davis_Mike]

Odds are Murray alone gets us a 3rd

No. The formula is pretty simple. In order to qualify for a 3rd round pick, Murray's contract needed to be $8.44 mil APY or higher. It is not.


According to OTC, these are the Cowboys estimated compensatory picks right now.

 

[Manster7588]

No. The formula is pretty simple. In order to qualify for a 3rd round pick, Murray's contract needed to be $8.44 mil APY or higher. It is not.


According to OTC, these are the Cowboys estimated compensatory picks right now.

Thanks. Never saw that part of the equation. Never figured we'd get a 4 for Parnell. Pretty sad that McFadden wipes out Carter.

 

[Greg]

It surprises me how many of you on this board have so little faith in a rookie RB coming in and being a competent replacement for Murray. Have you guys not payed attention to the last few years and taken notice to what some of these kids have done? Just in the last few years we have had the likes of Eddy Lacy, Alfred Morris, Doug Martin (rookie season), LeVeon Bell, Jeremy Hill, C.J. Anderson, Giovanni Bernard, and the list goes on... All these guys have had great production just coming into the league.

Replacing Murray will not be easy, but it is certainly not out of the realm of possibility, and I don't think it's a stretch to expect a rookie to be successful. Some of you on here just seem to rule out the possibility completely -- recent history seems to contradict that opinion. I get the sense that some look at Murray's massive production but discount the huge number of touches it took for Murray to accumulate those yards. As some have said, we will be replacing Murray by committee, and a rookie is most likely going to be a huge part of it. At the end of the day the O-line will prove to have more of an impact than Murray. Dallas will be a top 5 rushing attack next year, with a rookie RB seeing a large share of carries. I'll put money on it.

Selective reasoning? Felix Jones (1st round), Bishop Sankey (1st RB taken in last year's draft, 152-569 yards), Giovani Bernard (1st RB taken in 2013 draft, 168-680 yards), Trent Richardson (taken #3 ovrall in the 2012 draft, 267-950 yards), all in their rookie seasons. You are also missing my point here. I NEVER implied here that finding a productive RB can't be done in a draft during their rookie seasons, just that is it wise to gamble this team's identity and your team's entire season, on a crap-shoot draft pick? If it was so easy as you say it is here lol, teams would draft productive runners with each and every draft pick every year lol...there would never be any need to let a rookie mature a few seasons, or the risk of drafting any busts at RB?? Why would any team then pay any vet RB $8Mil a season over multiple years then??

Secondly, this team has already said that they are going away from a workhorse type running style next season, so running some rookie close to 400 carries will probably not happen next season. "Putting money on it" doesn't make it a reality either. Having Blind Faith in a RB just because of a good OL in front of him, is just not realistic thinking imo, and is more like fans just getting caught up in more of the same OL hype. So, the addition of Martin took this OL to some new stratosphere last season all by himself?? Murray actually had a superior YPC average in 2013, and it took him almost twice as many carries the following season (with the Martin addition) to gain just a little more then 700 yards more? Your reasoning here is seriously flawed.

 

[Manster7588]

Not really, just don't have much faith in a DMac/unproven rookie combo replacing Murray's production this season. There are reasons why DMac was signed on the cheap, and a rookie RB will not be this team's savior in this draft lol. If this team truly believes that just any RB can put up numbers behind this OL, they won't be playing for any SBs any time soon. With no serious running game to keep their team identity going, Romo will just revert back to the old Romo again by trying to do it all (and throwing away games again trying to come from behind all the time with forced throws and bad decisions), while also over-exposing a bad defense again on the field. Too much to lose here on a "maybe".

No one expects McFadden to replace Murray. With this OL I and a few others think a rookie will give us the production needed to continue being more than fine on offense. But it make ZERO sense to have to TRADE a pick for AP then give him equal or more money than it would have taken to resign Murray.

NEWS FLASH for you GREG. Jerry is no longer running the team. Jerry is a mouth piece, as Steven is now making the decisions. Steven is 1. NOT trading for AP and 2. NOT giving AP a huge long term contract. Get over this love affair. It's not going to happen. Go get your 2012 Minny program and keep your love for AP private.

 

[GNG]

McFadden is no long term answer and the Cowboys need a good young RB. I hope they draft one.

 

[Greg]

There is a reason why we were able to get McFadden for a bag of peanuts. The dude can't stay healthy for a full season, and when he did last season finally, his stats were 16 games, 166 carries, for 534 yards, and a 3.4 YPC average?? Sure it was behind the Raiders OL, but what makes you so sure those numbers will drastically improve next season as your lead dog an entire season?? Just having a better OL to play in front of? Really? I think it's safe to say that if it were not for the DMac and Jerry Arkansas connection here, and this team seriously needing a vet replacement now, most Dallas fans would be mocking him as a possible pick up, and he wouldn't even have been signed in Dallas to possibly replace Murray.

 

[Greg]

McFadden is no long term answer and the Cowboys need a good young RB. I hope they draft one.

Good luck. If you're wrong however, we will just see the same old 8-8 team again this season with Romo just trying to be Superman all over again. If this was a rebuilding young team with a good young QB, then I would agree with you here that all they would need is a good young RB, but they're not. Team is operating under a Romo 2-3 year window now obviously, and is in a win now mode.

 

[jarntt]

ES, I don't make Internet bets. I'll never say what definitely will or won't happen. We can just leave it at you think they will take RB in round one or two and i think they wait a little longer.

 

[jarntt]

No. The formula is pretty simple. In order to qualify for a 3rd round pick, Murray's contract needed to be $8.44 mil APY or higher. It is not.


According to OTC, these are the Cowboys estimated compensatory picks right now.

thats not how I remember it working. I believe There is a lot more to it than did you lose a player that got a contract of that size.

Think of it this way. Let's say AP and Murray both had expiring contracts. Let's say Philly signed Murray for 4 years and $40M and we gave AP the same contract and neither team signed nor lost any other FAs. In this scenario neither team would get any compensatory picks. If we lost Murray to the same contract above and signed a bunch of $5M guys we still wouldn't get any picks.

They look at what you lost versus what you gained. They look at both the number and quality of what you lost and gained. The reason it isn't known what picks you get right away is because it is also based on playing time (how good and how healthy the player was) and I believe they take into account if then guy won any awards like MVP, etc. if it were as simple as you stated we would know in week one of this year what each team would get.

 

[cowboycolors]

Good luck. If you're wrong however, we will just see the same old 8-8 team again this season with Romo just trying to be Superman all over again. If this was a rebuilding young team with a good young QB, then I would agree with you here that all they would need is a good young RB, but they're not. Team is operating under a Romo 2-3 year window now obviously, and is in a win now mode.

Well believe it or not the Cowboys are Rebuilding and have been in win Now since Jerry bought the team just not in the right direction since Jimmy left the building with a course correction under Parcells then back to the wildcatter style under Uncle wade and Jerry coming to his senses and letting Stephen take a bigger role with Garrett at the helm.

They have many needs RB DL S CB OL(depth) LB QB in no particular order Romo has 3 years tops and he is done and the Boys need a solid Backup Weeden is not It IMO and they need Romo's replacement.

Win now does not mean at the expense of the new fiscal management style of Stephen Jones. Unless Jerry goes on a Bender I don't expect to see them changing this style.

JMHO other will vary

 

[Greg]

Well believe it or not the Cowboys are Rebuilding and have been in win Now since Jerry bought the team just not in the right direction since Jimmy left the building with a course correction under Parcells then back to the wildcatter style under Uncle wade and Jerry coming to his senses and letting Stephen take a bigger role with Garrett at the helm.

They have many needs RB DL S CB OL(depth) LB QB in no particular order Romo has 3 years tops and he is done and the Boys need a solid Backup Weeden is not It IMO and they need Romo's replacement.

Win now does not mean at the expense of the new fiscal management style of Stephen Jones. Unless Jerry goes on a Bender I don't expect to see them changing this style.

JMHO other will vary

So, as long as they can stick within the realm of their new fiscal numbers restraint system policies, regardless of both of our acknowledged Romo 2-3 year win now window mode, and any realistic chance of going to and winning a SB over the past two decades, it's all good?? They are a complete shoe in to beat teams with rookies in this draft? We can then just draft ANY rookie RB to plug and play and make the SB also?? ...with this OL? REGARDLESS of what the Seahawks have done this off-season?

Makes complete sense here to me.

I'll take a proven product over a "maybe" in this draft and some "fiscal badge" to wear on my sleeve, any day.

 

[GNG]

There is a reason why we were able to get McFadden for a bag of peanuts. The dude can't stay healthy for a full season, and when he did last season finally, his stats were 16 games, 166 carries, for 534 yards, and a 3.4 YPC average?? Sure it was behind the Raiders OL, but what makes you so sure those numbers will drastically improve next season as your lead dog an entire season?? Just having a better OL to play in front of? Really? I think it's safe to say that if it were not for the DMac and Jerry Arkansas connection here, and this team seriously needing a vet replacement now, most Dallas fans would be mocking him as a possible pick up, and he wouldn't even have been signed in Dallas to possibly replace Murray.

It could have been worse. They could have signed Trent Richardson.

 

[cowboycolors]

So, as long as they can stick within the realm of their new fiscal numbers restraint system policies, regardless of both of our acknowledged Romo 2-3 year win now window mode, and any realistic chance of going to and winning a SB over the past two decades, it's all good?? They are a complete shoe in to beat teams with rookies in this draft? We can then just draft ANY rookie RB to plug and play and make the SB also?? ...with this OL? REGARDLESS of what the Seahawks have done this off-season?

Makes complete sense here to me.

I'll take a proven product over a "maybe" in this draft and some "fiscal badge" to wear on my sleeve, any day.

That's not what I said. What I said was they are taking a prudent approach to the salary cap and are digging out from under the Cap problems from unwise contracts in the past that got them to this point. They are not a shoe in to beat anybody with Rookies from this draft. Nor are they a shoe in to beat anybody with Vets either. Too many variables in any given year for any myriad of reasons anybody could name. And I never said that you could Plug and Play any RB and make the SB. As far as the Seahawks I could give a rats ass what they are doing. My concern is the Cowboys.

As far as taking a proven product over a Maybe I believe your referring to AP vs a Rookie RB. Its very unlikely to happen simple because Dallas wont trade the Picks necessary to get him and then pay him the money. Could they Sure but I bet the don't. If the Vikes cut him then I sure want to know about his Salary expectations. Which I don't think the Cowboys would be able to meet without pushing big money down the road. And I don't think they would do it. Might be wrong who knows.

Me I hope the Cowboys will stick to building the team through the draft and being fiscally responsible for the future any day and I think they will beat the big spending FA Teams like the Cowboys have been in the past.

The Draft and Cap money to selectively sign your own players is the way the NFL operates now. And Regardless of Romo's window I don't think they will be big players in FA for the foreseeable future.

The Boys were 1 Play away from the Championship game not 1 player.

JMHO

 

[Greg]

That's not what I said. What I said was they are taking a prudent approach to the salary cap and are digging out from under the Cap problems from unwise contracts in the past that got them to this point. They are not a shoe in to beat anybody with Rookies from this draft. Nor are they a shoe in to beat anybody with Vets either. Too many variables in any given year for any myriad of reasons anybody could name. And I never said that you could Plug and Play any RB and make the SB. As far as the Seahawks I could give a rats ass what they are doing. My concern is the Cowboys.

As far as taking a proven product over a Maybe I believe your referring to AP vs a Rookie RB. Its very unlikely to happen simple because Dallas wont trade the Picks necessary to get him and then pay him the money. Could they Sure but I bet the don't. If the Vikes cut him then I sure want to know about his Salary expectations. Which I don't think the Cowboys would be able to meet without pushing big money down the road. And I don't think they would do it. Might be wrong who knows.

Me I hope the Cowboys will stick to building the team through the draft and being fiscally responsible for the future any day and I think they will beat the big spending FA Teams like the Cowboys have been in the past.

The Draft and Cap money to selectively sign your own players is the way the NFL operates now. And Regardless of Romo's window I don't think they will be big players in FA for the foreseeable future.

The Boys were 1 Play away from the Championship game not 1 player.

JMHO

You should be very concerned about the Seahawks, they were the NFC Champs for the last two seasons, and just got a lot better with the Graham trade lol.

This team also lost some players to FA , and just lost their workhouse RB that set the tempo for them all of last year also???

Good luck with your drafting a rookie RB to plug and play theory, and their "fiscal restraint" mantra...