Interesting Thoughts On AP

[Greg]

I would like to see Dallas use the Old Thunder and lightning running game. If Murray stays which I don't believe he does especially after looking at what Lynch just got....he's the banger who's bringing the Thunder give him 20 carries are Gordon or Curly. Use Dunbar or Spiller /Reggie Bush type running back to bring the lightning with another 12 to 15 carries would be nice. I was looking at an article from Blogging the Boys just now. They're suggesting that the Giants, the Niners and the Colts will all bid for his services. I think the Colts will go after Murray hard. I do like the Ingram idea some of you Suggested I think he is more than serviceable and won't break the bank, but if we sign Ingram I'd would like to still draft a back.

I basically agree here, but be very careful. The board's Poster Police battalion will come out in full force here and blacklist you with insults for even responding to this thread. Especially with any talk about their beloved Murray going elsewhere. I think if Murray walks, and after the Lynch deal and the McCoy trade number post $10Mil a season, Murray is pretty much gone. The floor has already been set for that market, and Murray would be foolish to accept anything less out of loyalties. Might be a lot crying going on in here if that also happens (Murray leaves). If Murray leaves and AP's asking price is too high, I agree then the better way to go is via FA and the draft to find his replacement.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

See my post above about Zimmer trying to accommodate him if he doesn't want to be there. Why would they all of sudden hold onto to him if he didn't want to be there?...just out of spite over a draft pick??...just further adds to AP's mistrust within that organization wouldn't it? Self-serving and self-defeating hypocritical logic that simply goes nowhere, out of sheer desperation and panic. Not a way to run a team. Get what you can when you can, and then move on. No wonder the Vikes are perennial doormats.

hmmm.... WOW. You pretty much nailed that description of AP. A dude who beat his child and claimed the victim role.

 

[Greg]

hmmm.... WOW. You pretty much nailed that description of AP. A dude who beat his child and claimed the victim role.

Just a tad angry are we that your hero (should I say former hero?), appears to not want any part of your organization anymore?

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

Just a tad angry are we that your hero (should I say former hero?), appears to not want any part of your organization anymore?

Not a hero of mine, nor was he ever. Not particularily angry, either. I'm of the piece of mind that he deserves whatever abuse comes his way. And if he wants to play games and make idle threats, let him. Ultimately, it isn't AP that decides where he plays. That's what you fail to grasp.

 

[Greg]

Not a hero of mine, nor was he ever. Not particularily angry, either. I'm of the piece of mind that he deserves whatever abuse comes his way. And if he wants to play games and make idle threats, let him. Ultimately, it isn't AP that decides where he plays. That's what you fail to grasp.

Soooo, pay a guy $13 plus Mil a season that doesn't want to be there?

Makes sense. Team is clinging to him like an estranged wife or something. Man up and move on. Teams are not gonna unload the farm for a 30 year old RB past his prime and on the downside on his career in today's NFL. The jig is up. AP is a 2-3 year answer behind a premium offensive line with a top tier QB and WR in Dallas, not running up against and into 8 man fronts in the snow with a developing QB.....opps, my bad, you guys will have a new domed stadium soon right?

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

Soooo, pay a guy $13 plus Mil a season that doesn't want to be there?

Makes sense. Team is clinging to him like an estranged wife or something. Man up and move on. Teams are not gonna unload the farm for a 30 year old RB past his prime and on the downside on his career in today's NFL. The gig is up. AP is a 2-3 year answer behind a premium offensive line with a top tier QB and WR in Dallas, not running up against and into 8 man fronts in the snow with a developing QB.....opps, my bad, you guys will have a new domed stadium soon right?

I can't help but laugh. AP will not sit out if they don't trade him. His EGO wouldn't let him. The Vikings don't have to do anything. If he holds out? They can fine him. Simple as that. They had a top 15 rushing attack with RB by committee with some young talent, I'm not worried.

 

[cowboycolors]

Ok so at the risk of walking into a field of land mines here is my take on the RB issue
I don't think AP will be in Dallas but Minny has no incentive to keep him around his contract is not guaranteed and his cap hit if cut is 2.7 for 15 and 2.4 for 16. And if he wants out they save 12.7 million against the cap. However if they cut him I would bet its after June 1st just to show AP they hold the cards not Him.
Murray might be back but I would not hold my breath just simply based on $$$ and nothing else.

Our RB or committee of RB's is not yet on the team IMO. Jerry could do whatever he wants regarding AP If free from Minny or Murray but I don't think he will pull the trigger unless the price is right. But with Jerry Jones you never Know till the dust has all settled and even then a Tornado could come out of Nowhere.

JHMO others may vary

 

[Greg]

Ok so at the risk of walking into a field of land mines here is my take on the RB issue
I don't think AP will be in Dallas but Minny has no incentive to keep him around his contract is not guaranteed and his cap hit if cut is 2.7 for 15 and 2.4 for 16. And if he wants out they save 12.7 million against the cap. However if they cut him I would bet its after June 1st just to show AP they hold the cards not Him.
Murray might be back but I would not hold my breath just simply based on $$$ and nothing else.

Our RB or committee of RB's is not yet on the team IMO. Jerry could do whatever he wants regarding AP If free from Minny or Murray but I don't think he will pull the trigger unless the price is right. But with Jerry Jones you never Know till the dust has all settled and even then a Tornado could come out of Nowhere.

JHMO others may vary

Ok I'll bite, even though I already know that the "risk of walking into a field land mines here" and other past references made concerning me here by you with Poster Police battalion (making you quasi-poster police in theory I guess), is probably just more of the same rhetoric having less to do with real football debate, but just dialing up their 911 response here. Mostly because I can see that you are capable of handling yourself like an adult here, and not just some angry little kid with some "secret agenda" allegations after my every post...with absolutely nothing to add.

It really makes little business sense for them to cut AP after June 1st. He is owed zero guaranteed dollars as you've pointed out here, so there is little to gain from that move. Their best play here imo, is to strike while the iron is still hot at the beginning of FA, and see what they can get before releasing him....obviously. Trying to make a public statement by simply "showing AP who really holds the cards here", after their head coach has already stated not once, but twice, publicly, that he would accommodate AP if he wanted out, just adds fuel to the fire, and validates AP's mistrust of that organization imo. You may hurt AP's pocket in doing so, but he would have no problem in my mind finding another team at both a reduced price (with performance bonus incentives), and with he and his family having some peace of mind. What they are asking him to do essentially is to sell his soul for their dollars, or take less. Just not smart business if you're looking to come to the Vikes as a FA in the future.

Your statement highlighted above:

"Our RB or committee of RB's is not yet on the team IMO. Jerry could do whatever he wants regarding AP If free from Minny or Murray but I don't think he will pull the trigger unless the price is right. But with Jerry Jones you never Know till the dust has all settled and even then a Tornado could come out of Nowhere."

I agree with you here completely however, and is all that I'm really trying to say here in this thread in a nutshell, honestly. Having a man-crush on Murray, given his workload last season, the history of RB's declining in production the year after those workhorse seasons, his proven inability to stay healthy for an entire season, and the devaluation of the position by the league (unless it's for a once every generation type player like AP with this supporting cast, or for less guaranteed dollars), is not in the best interests of the Dallas Cowboys and their immediate goals under Romo's 2-3 year window. What if you pay Murray and he get's hurt at the beginning of the season with his history, or his numbers begin to seriously decline? You've just signed your team's death warrant for the remainder of the season (and maybe even further going forward at the position). With AP you might be willing to take that risk a little more after paying him simply because of who he is. I would MUCH rather take that risk with him then with Murray. Would I break the bank for either player?? No way. I would look for the RB by committee option via cheaper options (and as you've posted here, they are probably not even on this team now).

 

[UK Cowboy]

I would like to see Dallas use the Old Thunder and lightning running game. If Murray stays which I don't believe he does especially after looking at what Lynch just got....he's the banger who's bringing the Thunder give him 20 carries are Gordon or Curly. Use Dunbar or Spiller /Reggie Bush type running back to bring the lightning with another 12 to 15 carries would be nice. I was looking at an article from Blogging the Boys just now. They're suggesting that the Giants, the Niners and the Colts will all bid for his services. I think the Colts will go after Murray hard. I do like the Ingram idea some of you Suggested I think he is more than serviceable and won't break the bank, but if we sign Ingram I'd would like to still draft a back.

I don't think the Lynch contract will effect Murray at all. The Seahawks had the cap space, and the way his deal works, with almost 90% of it as a signing bonus, it's the equivalent of a franchise tag. If his deal has been longer than one year, I think it would effect Murray's number

 

[Greg]

I don't think the Lynch contract will effect Murray at all. The Seahawks had the cap space, and the way his deal works, with almost 90% of it as a signing bonus, it's the equivalent of a franchise tag. If his deal has been longer than one year, I think it would effect Murray's number

I agree. You have to look at the guaranteed dollars short term versus Murray's situation of looking for a guarantee and an average spread out longer. Lynch's situation is unique. He is their bell cow, but you never know what you are going to get from him every year mentally...not a long term answer for them imo. Murray may be to some team. Is Lynch going to retire or leave after every season? With McCoy, it's a contract absorption, not a negotiation, but both contracts sets a guaranteed dollars floor imo for one season.

 

[cowboycolors]

After the first contract for the players they have to really look at the business side of Football. And its not all sunshine and chocolate tied up with strings of Hundred Dollar bills the way things were just a few years ago. The New CBA changed the way that football business is conducted. Salary cap Dollars became even more important with the rookie wage scale. And While Demarco Murray will get his $$$$$$ it most likely wont be from the Cowboys. Its a simple distribution of the money you have to spend for the players you have available to build your team with. Some will get a bigger piece of the pie than others. Oh you can push the dollars down the road to win now at all costs but Jerry has played that game and he has come up with a Dry hole since the mid 90's.

I am hopeful that the boys are prudent going forward. I would Like to have Murray back but only at a contract that makes sense for the Cowboys. What's fair and what the Cowboys are willing to pay look to be on different sides of the road. Otherwise Murray would already be signed. Jerry got burned by several bad contracts in the past and seems to be intent on sticking to a plan of being fiscally responsible. Or maybe its Stephen either way its refreshing to see a long term bigger picture evolving with regards to Managing the cap and the teams players.

And while I'm not saying you can just plug in another RB and have the same results as Murray sometimes in Football just as in life you have to move on with another choice because the money just does not make sense .
We will know a lot more in 3-5 days .

 

[Greg]

Would I feel all warm and fuzzy inside heading into the 2015 season with complete unknowns at RB via the draft and FA??

Fuck no.

I would feel much better knowing that our running game and team identity could POSSIBLY be maintained with either Murray or AP, as long as the numbers work for us in today's market for RBs, and to keep us competitive in the future, while trying to change a failed team philosophy for almost two decades. Garrett and Stephen are finally getting through to Jerry as he ages, after years of him eating crow. You just have to look at this present team now however also. Do they have the time and patience to develop new talent in their system with Romo's window closing by drafting and acquiring unknown FA talent, or do they make some sacrifices here by compromising some of those beliefs of their most recent philosophy of spending efficiently and wisely, just so that may possibly win a SB today and tomorrow? It's a fine line and tightrope they are walking now, that will ultimately determine this team's immediate future and team thinking.

 

[jarntt]

Ok so at the risk of walking into a field of land mines here is my take on the RB issue
I don't think AP will be in Dallas but Minny has no incentive to keep him around his contract is not guaranteed and his cap hit if cut is 2.7 for 15 and 2.4 for 16. And if he wants out they save 12.7 million against the cap. However if they cut him I would bet its after June 1st just to show AP they hold the cards not Him.
Murray might be back but I would not hold my breath just simply based on $$$ and nothing else.

Our RB or committee of RB's is not yet on the team IMO. Jerry could do whatever he wants regarding AP If free from Minny or Murray but I don't think he will pull the trigger unless the price is right. But with Jerry Jones you never Know till the dust has all settled and even then a Tornado could come out of Nowhere.

JHMO others may vary

Starting to look more and more that way, but let's see. I think if they can get Dez signed there is a better chance of keeping him because we at least would know what we are up against and could possibly work out a plan long term. We won't be offering Murray the most total dollars, but maybe we'd be more willing to guarantee a larger chunk of it than anyone else.

Wonder if Buffalo has any use for Fred Jackson if they extend McCoy. He'd be a nice guy to include in a committee for us. Can catch, pass protect and is a good runner as long as you don't wear him down. I'd be looking very hard at what happens in Buffalo if I'm the Cowboys.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

After the first contract for the players they have to really look at the business side of Football. And its not all sunshine and chocolate tied up with strings of Hundred Dollar bills the way things were just a few years ago. The New CBA changed the way that football business is conducted. Salary cap Dollars became even more important with the rookie wage scale. And While Demarco Murray will get his $$$$$$ it most likely wont be from the Cowboys. Its a simple distribution of the money you have to spend for the players you have available to build your team with. Some will get a bigger piece of the pie than others. Oh you can push the dollars down the road to win now at all costs but Jerry has played that game and he has come up with a Dry hole since the mid 90's.

I am hopeful that the boys are prudent going forward. I would Like to have Murray back but only at a contract that makes sense for the Cowboys. What's fair and what the Cowboys are willing to pay look to be on different sides of the road. Otherwise Murray would already be signed. Jerry got burned by several bad contracts in the past and seems to be intent on sticking to a plan of being fiscally responsible. Or maybe its Stephen either way its refreshing to see a long term bigger picture evolving with regards to Managing the cap and the teams players.

And while I'm not saying you can just plug in another RB and have the same results as Murray sometimes in Football just as in life you have to move on with another choice because the money just does not make sense .
We will know a lot more in 3-5 days .

I think just about all of us agree with this. We are in a good position that we don't have to be forced into a top dollar contact. And yes, replacing Murray will be a task but manageable.

 

[jarntt]

I think just about all of us agree with this. We are in a good position that we don't have to be forced into a top dollar contact. And yes, replacing Murray will be a task but manageable.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone on here wants us to spend huge dollars on Murray or ever stated he definitely stays...yet someone on here seems to feel that is what we all are or at least a group of us are saying...takes all kinds I guess...

 

[UK Cowboy]

Would I feel all warm and fuzzy inside heading into the 2015 season with complete unknowns at RB via the draft and FA??

Fuck no.

I would feel much better knowing that our running game and team identity could POSSIBLY be maintained with either Murray or AP, as long as the numbers work for us in today's market for RBs, and to keep us competitive in the future, while trying to change a failed team philosophy for almost two decades. Garrett and Stephen are finally getting through to Jerry as he ages, after years of him eating crow. You just have to look at this present team now however also. Do they have the time and patience to develop new talent in their system with Romo's window closing by drafting and acquiring unknown FA talent, or do they make some sacrifices here by compromising some of those beliefs of their most recent philosophy of spending efficiently and wisely, just so that may possibly win a SB today and tomorrow? It's a fine line and tightrope they are walking now, that will ultimately determine this team's immediate future and team thinking.

Yep, I feel like things have made such a 180 in Cowboyland since McClay came on, that they have contingencies for whatever happens, be it Murray for a few years, long term, or not at all. I think if they don't resign Murray, they will pick up an Ingram and top 3 round rookie. No scenario for the running game is better than having Murray, but if FA dollars sign a Trent Cole or Orakpo type edge rusher in addition, it might work out for the best

 

[Manster7588]

I'd much rather go with the unknown rather than spend upwards to 10M on a RB. Our cap is not as bad as it was a few years ago but we still on the edge of cap hell. If we are to spend big $$$$$ on a RB we have to redo some contracts including throwing more dead money on the end of Romo's deal.

 

[Greg]

Adam over at ESPN has just reported that the Saints have just re-signed Ingram for 4 years...and another one bites the dust.

 

[Greg]

Adam over at ESPN has just reported that the Saints have just re-signed Ingram for 4 years...and another one bites the dust.

4 years $16Mil

 

[GNG]

I'd rather the Cowboys draft a RB if Murray leaves in free agency. AP is 30 years old and will want at least 12 million per year.