i'm all for trading wentz now

[SteelersPride]

Foles durability is questionable too.

My point was that Wentz isn't really any different now than he was when they drafted him. So nothing has changed really. He has top 5 QB upside. You work towards developing that still. Those guys are hard to get.

ahhh yes! finally someone that gets it. however. i will add this. He carries significantly more risk than when u drafted him as well, due to injuries. But yes, he proved for 3/4 of a year he can be great but theras a little over 2 years of non greatness. now injuries. Can he get back? we'll see. IF you ask PE1 he is an mvp and always was

 

[old duke]

So, after reading up more on the Eagles' options with Foles ... I now think there is a realistic chance that the Eagles do in fact Franchise Foles and trade him to either the Jags or the Dolphins in a pre-franchise tag agreement; much like the Patriots did with Matt Cassel. I don't think the 20 mil team option will come into play at all because Foles will nullify it by paying the 2 mil to buy his free agency (pointless for Foles to settle for 20 when he can get a long term deal in free agency or get 9 mil more if Franchised) ... the Eagles would then still place the Tag on him, but why bother with that extra step to begin with. Foles would still have to sign the Franchise tag designation in order for the Eagles to own his rights and be able to trade him, but I think that would just be a formality. The Jags in particular are a dream fit for Foles ... stacked Defense, good RB, decent receivers, but they have been saddled with a horrible QB in Blake Bortles. And for the icing on the cake, he would go right into an Offense he already knows with Jags new OC John DeFilippo. The Dolphins could make things interesting if they do in fact move on from Ryan Tannehill (which is rumored) and get in on the action with a proposal. Ultimately though I think the Jags situation is a win/win for both teams ... compensation would probably be the Jags 2nd round pick (early Rd 2 pick) and probably a 4th or 5th as a sweetener. That would give us our 1st rounder and three 2nds to help replenish young talent.

I think we could get more than that from the Jags, Rey. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I think we can get a little more.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

I think we could get more than that from the Jags, Rey. Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I think we can get a little more.

I do hope for that as well. But I think Rey has this pegged right. He could have gone for a second last year, when many teams knew pretty well we wanted to keep him for an insurance policy. He was amazing off the bench this year, but not anything I see drawing for a 1st. The 4th/5th sweetener might just be where the bidding teams distinguish themselves.

Plus, I wouldn’t discount the Raiders as a dark horse of sorts. The caveat would be that I don’t think in such an arrangement the Eagles will send Foles anywhere without his ok. And I’m not sure he wants in on that mess. Still, if cleared the Raiders could throw one of their 1st’s without blinking an eye.

Good on you Rey. I’ve been trying to find time this week to read up more on this. You saved me the time. Appreciated!

 

[Orlando Eagles]

ahhh yes! finally someone that gets it. however. i will add this. He carries significantly more risk than when u drafted him as well, due to injuries. But yes, he proved for 3/4 of a year he can be great but theras a little over 2 years of non greatness. now injuries. Can he get back? we'll see. IF you ask PE1 he is an mvp and always was

He carried significantly more risk than trading so much draft capital to pick a Div II QB #2 in the draft?

No disagreement with your point that it’s heightened risk. But the team kind of has no other move here but to double down, so to speak.

Amazing QB off the bench and Philly God that Foles is....I just don’t see this outweighing the need to double down on the upside guy you invested in. Easy enough to say since I think the odds that the MVP caliber Wentz comes back are higher than the injury prone concerns that just feel a little over stressed by many at this point.

I think the more solid debate going forward is....can Sudfeld be a solid backup when needed like Foles was?

 

[SteelersPride]

from what ive heard the jags are going to major players in the FA qb market. They have a team built to win NOW, not in a year or two. They dont have the time to develop a young qb through the draft. They are gonna go for it with that D talent, a young stud rb, and the supposed wr's they have (brought in) and drafted.

With the FA QB pool muddled its gonna look like
Foles
Tanyy
Flacco
Tyrod
Bridgewater
Fitzmagic

From that list, foles is the most envious followed by Succo.

OUtlier's being If Eli is available via trade, rumors a reunion with coughlin, or possibyl andy dalton becoming available.

but Foles due to age, perceived upside is the gem

 

[SteelersPride]

He carried significantly more risk than trading so much draft capital to pick a Div II QB #2 in the draft?

No disagreement with your point that it’s heightened risk. But the team kind of has no other move here but to double down, so to speak.

Amazing QB off the bench and Philly God that Foles is....I just don’t see this outweighing the need to double down on the upside guy you invested in. Easy enough to say since I think the odds that the MVP caliber Wentz comes back are higher than the injury prone concerns that just feel a little over stressed by many at this point.

I think the more solid debate going forward is....can Sudfeld be a solid backup when needed like Foles was?

Yes. I actually stand by that statement. The div 2 qb was highly regarded.

I think everyone overestimates modern medicine, and thinks everything is always "ok". he hurt his back in college, he hurt it this year, and the acl. could he be ok yep, could he not ever get back to 100%, yep.

I am not suggesting right now foles is the answer. Just tempered expectations.

I also think mental game comes into play. Im sorry, i dont care who you are. If you are having an MVP like season, get hurt, watch you back up ride into the superbowl, win superbowl mvp, etch into philly folklore, get a statue, its in your head. Then you get hurt again, and the team rallies around that guy again, and the media attention to it, its in your head, even a little bit.

Just the combo of the two makes it riskier to me. Your resetting with him, hes gotta start over again, and has injuries and mental hurdles to overcome, does that make sense on my end?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Foles durability is questionable too.

My point was that Wentz isn't really any different now than he was when they drafted him. So nothing has changed really. He has top 5 QB upside. You work towards developing that still. Those guys are hard to get.

We've often been on opposite side of many these forum debates...not here, this one is a no brainer.

You don't trade a top 5 drafted QB simply because he's had some injuries after 3 seasons and they got good production from his backup.

Foles is not a better talent than Wentz...his success (wins) imo is like any other QB, it's as much a by product of having a great team around him than his talent. You can have great success as a QB and not win shit if the team around you is not up to par...2018 ATL Falcons are a good example of that.

You trade Foles for draft capital or a solid starter...thank Foles for his service, wish him well, draft or find a back up QB, and move forward.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

from what ive heard the jags are going to major players in the FA qb market. They have a team built to win NOW, not in a year or two. They dont have the time to develop a young qb through the draft. They are gonna go for it with that D talent, a young stud rb, and the supposed wr's they have (brought in) and drafted.

With the FA QB pool muddled its gonna look like
Foles
Tanyy
Flacco
Tyrod
Bridgewater
Fitzmagic

From that list, foles is the most envious followed by Succo.

OUtlier's being If Eli is available via trade, rumors a reunion with coughlin, or possibyl andy dalton becoming available.

but Foles due to age, perceived upside is the gem

Jags...I agree...they will go QB in FA vs draft or they should...they have some cap issues though...they will have a $16 mil dead money hit for Bortles...not terrible if they can prorate over two seasons, but they have a lot of money tied up on marginal DEF players now....if they don't cut Dareus, they have 40+ mil tied up in 3 guys that have already peaked and are now on the downside.

Foles imo might cost too much. I can see him in MIA, On the surface Flacco does seem like the next best thing, but he's no lock and he won't be cheap...I think I would look at Bridgewater on a Keenum type contract if I were JAX.

 

[SteelersPride]

Jags...I agree...they will go QB in FA vs draft or they should...they have some cap issues though...they will have a $16 mil dead money hit for Bortles...not terrible if they can prorate over two seasons, but they have a lot of money tied up on marginal DEF players now....if they don't cut Dareus, they have 40+ mil tied up in 3 guys that have already peaked and are now on the downside.

Foles imo might cost too much. I can see him in MIA, On the surface Flacco does seem like the next best thing, but he's no lock and he won't be cheap...I think I would look at Bridgewater on a Keenum type contract if I were JAX.

i agree all the way to bridgewater.

i dont think jax can afford to gamble on teddy B. He isnt proven really. Still has real upside, but they need a "sure" thing. They need to know what they are getting. If bridgewater tanks.........Even his game week 17 for the saints wasnt great.

 

[Roy Munson]

So, after reading up more on the Eagles' options with Foles ... I now think there is a realistic chance that the Eagles do in fact Franchise Foles and trade him to either the Jags or the Dolphins in a pre-franchise tag agreement; much like the Patriots did with Matt Cassel. I don't think the 20 mil team option will come into play at all because Foles will nullify it by paying the 2 mil to buy his free agency (pointless for Foles to settle for 20 when he can get a long term deal in free agency or get 9 mil more if Franchised) ... the Eagles would then still place the Tag on him, but why bother with that extra step to begin with. Foles would still have to sign the Franchise tag designation in order for the Eagles to own his rights and be able to trade him, but I think that would just be a formality. The Jags in particular are a dream fit for Foles ... stacked Defense, good RB, decent receivers, but they have been saddled with a horrible QB in Blake Bortles. And for the icing on the cake, he would go right into an Offense he already knows with Jags new OC John DeFilippo. The Dolphins could make things interesting if they do in fact move on from Ryan Tannehill (which is rumored) and get in on the action with a proposal. Ultimately though I think the Jags situation is a win/win for both teams ... compensation would probably be the Jags 2nd round pick (early Rd 2 pick) and probably a 4th or 5th as a sweetener. That would give us our 1st rounder and three 2nds to help replenish young talent.

Why would anybody trade with us knowing we can't pay Foles that money without gutting our team?

 

[SteelersPride]

Why would anybody trade with us knowing we can't pay Foles that money without gutting our team?

Yup unless bidding war

 

[Orlando Eagles]

Why would anybody trade with us knowing we can't pay Foles that money without gutting our team?

Fear someone else will trade for him?

That’s the fear to me when they say “if you tag him and can’t find a suitor....”

 

[Orlando Eagles]

Yes. I actually stand by that statement. The div 2 qb was highly regarded.

I think everyone overestimates modern medicine, and thinks everything is always "ok". he hurt his back in college, he hurt it this year, and the acl. could he be ok yep, could he not ever get back to 100%, yep.

I am not suggesting right now foles is the answer. Just tempered expectations.

I also think mental game comes into play. Im sorry, i dont care who you are. If you are having an MVP like season, get hurt, watch you back up ride into the superbowl, win superbowl mvp, etch into philly folklore, get a statue, its in your head. Then you get hurt again, and the team rallies around that guy again, and the media attention to it, its in your head, even a little bit.

Just the combo of the two makes it riskier to me. Your resetting with him, hes gotta start over again, and has injuries and mental hurdles to overcome, does that make sense on my end?

Well said. Your talking to a pro Wentz guy here....but also a realist.

I’m not sure I’m willing to say it’s a complete start over for him....but I do agree with the rest of what you said.

I’m also not terribly sure the injuries and Foles stepping in twice now is in his head. This team has legitimately been about family the last two years. I think they’ve made it clear they will roll with who they have to roll with and Wentz gets that.

I do worry the injury and coming back so fast from it led to mental issues. The game sped up for him so to speak. He needs the right work and support this offseason to slow it down again

It’s possible, but it’s also risky. I worried about picking this guy in 2016. Can he make that leap? Then he showed he could for most of 2017. So I’m less worried that he can do it again, but it will be a worry until otherwise proven not to be. So I will throw 2018 out and look for what will happen.

All that worry involved....it’s still absolutely the right move the team is making

 

[SteelersPride]

Well said. Your talking to a pro Wentz guy here....but also a realist.

I’m not sure I’m willing to say it’s a complete start over for him....but I do agree with the rest of what you said.

I’m also not terribly sure the injuries and Foles stepping in twice now is in his head. This team has legitimately been about family the last two years. I think they’ve made it clear they will roll with who they have to roll with and Wentz gets that.

I do worry the injury and coming back so fast from it led to mental issues. The game sped up for him so to speak. He needs the right work and support this offseason to slow it down again

It’s possible, but it’s also risky. I worried about picking this guy in 2016. Can he make that leap? Then he showed he could for most of 2017. So I’m less worried that he can do it again, but it will be a worry until otherwise proven not to be. So I will throw 2018 out and look for what will happen.

All that worry involved....it’s still absolutely the right move the team is making

funny, i made this point to @PhoenixEagles1 and he swears im insane. And i agree its the right move. and yeah there is risk, and HUGE reward sitting there..........but apparently im just a troll

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

funny, i made this point to @PhoenixEagles1 and he swears im insane. And i agree its the right move. and yeah there is risk, and HUGE reward sitting there..........but apparently im just a troll

I have no problem with that but it has nothing to do with what we’re talking about and I didn’t call you a troll for that.

 

[SteelersPride]

I have no problem with that but it has nothing to do with what we’re talking about and I didn’t call you a troll for that.

dude its the same fn argument i originally made holy shit

 

[ATL96Steeler]

i agree all the way to bridgewater.

i dont think jax can afford to gamble on teddy B. He isnt proven really. Still has real upside, but they need a "sure" thing. They need to know what they are getting. If bridgewater tanks.........Even his game week 17 for the saints wasnt great.

Yeah, he's not, but JAX doesn't have a blank check to work with and there is some gamble always involved with FA QBs. Flacco to date is not really shown much the last 2 seasons, thus bumped for Lamar Jackson. Even MIN is probably questioning their Cousins decision a yr later, and he was the hottest FA out there.

 

[SteelersPride]

Yeah, he's not, but JAX doesn't have a blank check to work with and there is some gamble always involved with FA QBs. Flacco to date is not really shown much the last 2 seasons, thus bumped for Lamar Jackson. Even MIN is probably questioning their Cousins decision a yr later, and he was the hottest FA out there.

no i agree. i jsut think flacco would be safer than bridgewater, i hate to say i personally think tyrod of fitzmagic would be as well..................again my opinion

 

[ATL96Steeler]

no i agree. i jsut think flacco would be safer than bridgewater, i hate to say i personally think tyrod of fitzmagic would be as well..................again my opinion

Fitz and Taylor do have more recent body of work, but Fitz was handed the TB job, and couldn't keep it. Like Fitz a lot as a guy that can come in and play a game or two, but not as the 16 game guy. Taylor and TB I kind of view in the same vein. They probably won't make the game winning throws too many times, but also not likely to throw the game losing pass either....game manager. Bortles was throwing game losing passes and not nearly enough game winning throws.

Not really a pushback...JAX does not have many great options imo in FA unless they can get the money to land Foles...if we're looking for safe and hopefully immediate impact he's the guy as you said at the top.

It wouldn't shock me to see Eli in JAX...they would have to shed some contracts aside from Bortles....maybe that's how they land Foles....ditch some of those bad DEF contracts.

 

[Rey]

Why would anybody trade with us knowing we can't pay Foles that money without gutting our team?

To guarantee getting Foles ... if he hits the market there is no guarantee of that team getting him. The Eagles won't tag him without already having a trade agreement in place; obviously they can't afford the cap hit and as soon as Foles signs the tender the Eagles can't rescind the offer. If/when Foles gets tagged we already know it's with the intent of being shipped out. The team that gets him will more than likely sign him to a multi year deal and it won't be such a big cap hit year one.