If Peyton Manning was drafted by the Patriots

[NinerSickness]

Everyone knows Peyton Manning is one of the greatest of all time, but let's not pretend that Tom Brady has had more help than he has. That's absurd. Peyton's had more help than almost anyone who's ever played. The only 3 QBs who come to mind who have been in Peyton's league as far as help goes are Kurt Warner, Matt Stafford (if you include College too), and possibly the most spoiled QB of all time: Matt Ryan (most overrated QB in the NFL right now).

Oh, and now we're making things up like Manning had terrible OLs in Indianapolis? He might've a couple of season there, but his OLs when Tarik Glenn & Jeff Saturday were anchoring them were upper echelon.

 

[PeytonManningBestEver]

Why is Bob Griese considered the top 3 to you? Is it because he had one superb year?

 

[BF4L]

You know what I meant. He has all day to throw the ball back there. Just imagine if Manning had that much time to find an open player. Records would be broken. To top it off, the Patriots defense was so dominant in the past 13 years that Brady rarely ever had to go far to score a touchdown. He always had great field position.

Actually I have no clue what you are talking about and from the evidence you have posted I suspect neither do you..but carry on.

I am going to bed.

 

[PeytonManningBestEver]

Peyton Manning has had a lot of great talent at receiver throughout his career, but his defense has been some of the worst too. If you watched the Colts games the past 15 years, you will realize Manning usually gets the ball on their own 20 and has to drive the field every time to score. Brady rarely ever has to do that because the Patriots defense has always gave him perfect field position on most drives. The Colt's offensive line throughout those years weren't that good either. Manning is known to be considered to have the fastest or second fastest release times ever. Marino also had a extremely fast release time. Brady would never make it in the NFL without having a top offensive line. He simply doesn't have the pocket awareness to make quick decisions like that. That is why he manages to have tons of sacks every year even with a top offensive line (pretty sad imo). It's not about how much talent you have to throw to, it's more about how much time you have to sit in the pocket to find a receiver open. We all know this. That's what separates the best QBs in the league. Do you seriously think a guy like Jay Cutler couldn't light up a football field if he had plenty of time to stand idle in the pocket and twiddle his thumbs? Do you think these guys make the NFL by being bad QBs? It's because they had great offensive lines in college to give them a long time to find a open receiver. This isn't rocket science. Without a good offensive line you will not be good in the NFL unless you can get rid of the ball fast.

 

[Brahmsian]

Why is Bob Griese considered the top 3 to you? Is it because he had one superb year?

He was Miami's starting QB from age 22 to age 35 and led the Dolphins DEEP
into the playoffs most of those years.

3 AFC titles, 2 Super Bowl wins, 192 career touchdown passes, was team MVP 3 times.

That's a lot more than one good year.


check him out at Pro Football Hall of Fame - Home Page or wikipedia or just ask any Dolphin fan.

 

[PeytonManningBestEver]

He was a good QB but no way he's top 3 all-time. 25,000 yards, less than 200 TDs. 8 Pro Bowls and 2 First Team All-Pro. 14 Year Career. His stats are below par in my opinion. I do give him credit for being with Miami that entire time and that he played at Purdue. Other than that I think I might barely fit him into my Top 10 on a GOOD DAY. The guy had a 56% completion percentage.

 

[PeytonManningBestEver]

You also have to admit, the 1970's was probably the worst decade for great QBs. The top 5 QBs in the 70s were Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Fran Tarkenton, Bob Griese and Ken Stabler. They all averaged around 57% completion percentage. They all averaged around 25-28k yards. They all averaged around 160-200TDs. It wasn't a very good decade for QBs. I guess I put Griese as top 3 of his time even though that isn't saying much. There were a lot better QBs in the 50s-60s to be honest.

 

[PeytonManningBestEver]

Another reason I don't consider these 70s QBs that great is because 3 out of the 5 I just listed as the best QBs in the 1970s had more interceptions than they had TD passes. LOL! Accuracy wasn't a talent back then. Roger Staubach was the only one out of the 5 that had a decent rating and turnover accuracy. Staubach is considered to be the best of the 70s to most people, even though he didn't start his career until age 27 (ouch).

 

[Clayton]

Everyone knows Peyton Manning is one of the greatest of all time, but let's not pretend that Tom Brady has had more help than he has. That's absurd. Peyton's had more help than almost anyone who's ever played. The only 3 QBs who come to mind who have been in Peyton's league as far as help goes are Kurt Warner, Matt Stafford (if you include College too), and possibly the most spoiled QB of all time: Matt Ryan (most overrated QB in the NFL right now).

Oh, and now we're making things up like Manning had terrible OLs in Indianapolis? He might've a couple of season there, but his OLs when Tarik Glenn & Jeff Saturday were anchoring them were upper echelon.

There are so many years of Peyton teams that its hard to say 'Peyton has always had this' or 'Peyton has never had this'. Probably 2/3 of Peyton's teams were good and 1/3 of them he was playing Superman. Brady is probably closer to half and half. He has had Dillon and Moss and Gronk and Welker and Hernandez but he has also had some years with scrubs and this year which is pretty remarkable.

But then you have to remember that the Patriots won their Super Bowls with great defense because great defense is generally what wins Super Bowls.

 

[JDM]

Peyton Manning has had a lot of great talent at receiver throughout his career, but his defense has been some of the worst too. If you watched the Colts games the past 15 years, you will realize Manning usually gets the ball on their own 20 and has to drive the field every time to score. Brady rarely ever has to do that because the Patriots defense has always gave him perfect field position on most drives. The Colt's offensive line throughout those years weren't that good either. Manning is known to be considered to have the fastest or second fastest release times ever. Marino also had a extremely fast release time. Brady would never make it in the NFL without having a top offensive line. He simply doesn't have the pocket awareness to make quick decisions like that. That is why he manages to have tons of sacks every year even with a top offensive line (pretty sad imo). It's not about how much talent you have to throw to, it's more about how much time you have to sit in the pocket to find a receiver open. We all know this. That's what separates the best QBs in the league. Do you seriously think a guy like Jay Cutler couldn't light up a football field if he had plenty of time to stand idle in the pocket and twiddle his thumbs? Do you think these guys make the NFL by being bad QBs? It's because they had great offensive lines in college to give them a long time to find a open receiver. This isn't rocket science. Without a good offensive line you will not be good in the NFL unless you can get rid of the ball fast.

No. Jay cutler is a bad QB who makes far more bad decisions than good ones.

And Peyton has had very good offensive lines his entire career. You can't pretend offensive surrounding cast benefitted Brady somehow. It's insane.

 

[cdumler7]

No. Jay cutler is a bad QB who makes far more bad decisions than good ones.

And Peyton has had very good offensive lines his entire career. You can't pretend offensive surrounding cast benefitted Brady somehow. It's insane.

I don't know if I would say he had very good OL his entire career. While with the Colts he had his Center and at the beginning of his career a decent LT but otherwise until he came to Denver I wouldn't say he had a bunch of great OL players in front of him. It helps when he is getting rid of the football 90% of the time in 2.5 seconds or faster. Usually makes your OL look better than they are.

 

[soxfan1468927]

He was Miami's starting QB from age 22 to age 35 and led the Dolphins DEEP
into the playoffs most of those years.

3 AFC titles, 2 Super Bowl wins, 192 career touchdown passes, was team MVP 3 times.

That's a lot more than one good year.


check him out at Pro Football Hall of Fame - Home Page or wikipedia or just ask any Dolphin fan.

You don't actually think Bob Griese was better than Peyton Manning do you?

Team MVP? Seriously?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Defensively!

If NE could have upgraded at QB and had THAT defense? SB every season.

What defense are you talking about? The legends of the Patriots defense has grown immensely over the years. Here's how football outsiders ranks the Patriots defense in the years since Brady showed up in the league:

2001: 13th
2002: 14th
2003: 2nd
2004: 7th
2005: 27th
2006: 7th
2007: 11th
2009: 14th
2010: 21st
2011: 30th
2012: 15th

Average ranking of 15th

Here are Peyton Manning's defenses:

1998: 29th
1999: 26th
2000: 23rd
2001: 29th
2002: 16th
2003: 13th
2004: 19th
2005: 5th
2006: 25th
2007: 2nd
2008: 11th
2009: 16th
2010: 24th
2012: 5th

Average ranking of 17th

So the Brady's defenses were slightly better than Manning's defenses over the years

 

[JDM]

I don't know if I would say he had very good OL his entire career. While with the Colts he had his Center and at the beginning of his career a decent LT but otherwise until he came to Denver I wouldn't say he had a bunch of great OL players in front of him. It helps when he is getting rid of the football 90% of the time in 2.5 seconds or faster. Usually makes your OL look better than they are.

I would say it has been pretty consistently above average. He hasn't had the best line in the league every year, but neither has Brady. I think the difference in receiving corps has massively outweighed any difference in line play. This is more where my mocking of his claim Brady had better help on offense came from, not just O Line to O Line.

I don't think anyone serious would claim that any year but 07 (and maybe arguably 09), Brady had more to work with than the average Peyton year.

 

[soxfan1468927]

For you Patriot fans who claim he beat a lousy Rex Grossman. Rex Grossman had a 76% completion percentage in that game, 3rd best all-time in a Super Bowl. The Chicago Bears defense that year was probably the best defense I've seen my entire life, besides the 1985 Chicago Bears defense. Peyton Manning managed to throw over 300 yards in that game on that defense. Rex Grossman had a great day passing the ball but the Bears simply couldn't get it done. It was a lot better matchup then the New York Giants, who both times were 9-7 and barely made the playoffs, and somehow managed to win all their games and win the Super Bowl over the undefeated and one loss Patriot teams. Now that is an epic choke.

WHAT???? Here's a list of defenses in the last 15 years better than that defense:

2002 Buccaneers
2009 Steelers
2004 Bills
2009 Ravens
2012 Bears
2003 Ravens
2000 Titans
2000 Ravens
2009 Eagles
2006 Ravens
1998 Dolphins
1999 Ravens
2010 Steelers

They weren't even the best that year

 

[Manning2Luck_uJelly]

What defense are you talking about? The legends of the Patriots defense has grown immensely over the years. Here's how football outsiders ranks the Patriots defense in the years since Brady showed up in the league:

2001: 13th
2002: 14th
2003: 2nd
2004: 7th
2005: 27th
2006: 7th
2007: 11th
2009: 14th
2010: 21st
2011: 30th
2012: 15th

Average ranking of 15th

Here are Peyton Manning's defenses:

1998: 29th
1999: 26th
2000: 23rd
2001: 29th
2002: 16th
2003: 13th
2004: 19th
2005: 5th
2006: 25th
2007: 2nd
2008: 11th
2009: 16th
2010: 24th
2012: 5th

Average ranking of 17th

So the Brady's defenses were slightly better than Manning's defenses over the years

2012 Was Luck :rollseyes:

 

[Manning2Luck_uJelly]

What defense are you talking about? The legends of the Patriots defense has grown immensely over the years. Here's how football outsiders ranks the Patriots defense in the years since Brady showed up in the league:

2001: 13th
2002: 14th
2003: 2nd
2004: 7th
2005: 27th
2006: 7th
2007: 11th
2009: 14th
2010: 21st
2011: 30th
2012: 15th

Average ranking of 15th

Here are Peyton Manning's defenses:

1998: 29th
1999: 26th
2000: 23rd
2001: 29th
2002: 16th
2003: 13th
2004: 19th
2005: 5th
2006: 25th
2007: 2nd
2008: 11th
2009: 16th
2010: 24th
2012: 5th

Average ranking of 17th

So the Brady's defenses were slightly better than Manning's defenses over the years

One more thing, when yards start winning and losing games, then we can start judging defenses by the amount of yards they give up.

 

[Manning2Luck_uJelly]

The years the Pats won the Super Bowl, their defense was ranked in points 6th, 1st, and 2nd....During Brady's career the Pats were top5 in defense 5 times, and top 10 ten times.

 

[soxfan1468927]

For you Patriot fans who claim he beat a lousy Rex Grossman. Rex Grossman had a 76% completion percentage in that game, 3rd best all-time in a Super Bowl. The Chicago Bears defense that year was probably the best defense I've seen my entire life, besides the 1985 Chicago Bears defense. Peyton Manning managed to throw over 300 yards in that game on that defense. Rex Grossman had a great day passing the ball but the Bears simply couldn't get it done. It was a lot better matchup then the New York Giants, who both times were 9-7 and barely made the playoffs, and somehow managed to win all their games and win the Super Bowl over the undefeated and one loss Patriot teams. Now that is an epic choke.

Grossman had a 71% completion percentage, 8th highest all-time. But don't let facts get in the way.

 

[soxfan1468927]

2012 Was Luck :rollseyes:

That's Denver's defense rank genius