If Kilgore / Looney wins the C position

[sjballer03]

I don't think we have a whole lot of depth on the O-line.

We have 2nd unproven year guys as swing guys (Kilgore, Looney). That's it.
No backup tackle to boot as well. If we lost a starting tackle Boone would probably move to tackle and then Kilgore or Looney to RG and it would be a shuffle.

No way we cut Goodwin. If Goodwin gets beaten out we probably still keep him for the rest of the year and let him walk at the end of the year if Kilgore/Looney cement themselves at the center position.

Goodwin has a few years of experience at center in the 49ers system... why would you let that walk just to save a few millions this year?

The first reasonable thing anyone has said about Goodwin.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Letting someone walk isn't the same as cutting them. Meriweather was one of the worst pro bowlers I have seen in a long time, and was paid too much for his value. Koppen wasn't healthy and was released for a needed roster spot.

If a player is under contract already cutting him to clear up space without a plan for what to do with said space is doing it blindly.

See, that's the answer right there. The crucial question is the contract versus the contribution.

Koppen was healthy enough to start for Denver. And I agree Meriweather isn't wasn't a great safety, but he was good enough to stay on the roster if we're talking purely about his ability. But both guys cost too much. The same would be true of Goodwin if he's on the bench.

We have a slew of NFL-caliber players who will not make the roster. I have no doubt we will be able to fill any opening. We may have to look for a backup OL in the cuts from other teams - though we may do that regardless as we are light at OT - but I suspect we would take that approach in order to find a cheaper solution at the backup position rather than paying Goodwin good money to ride the pine.

 

[deep9er]

I don't know if they cut him, at least not right away. I would assume that it would be important to make sure that the decision you made to go with the youngin pans out before you jettison your starting C over the last two years.

agree.

good point on young-ins, if BOTH Kilgore and Looney surpass Goodwin, or 'too close to call', then ok to cut Goodwin.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I don't think we have a whole lot of depth on the O-line.

We have 2nd unproven year guys as swing guys (Kilgore, Looney). That's it.
No backup tackle to boot as well. If we lost a starting tackle Boone would probably move to tackle and then Kilgore or Looney to RG and it would be a shuffle.

No way we cut Goodwin. If Goodwin gets beaten out we probably still keep him for the rest of the year and let him walk at the end of the year if Kilgore/Looney cement themselves at the center position.

Goodwin has a few years of experience at center in the 49ers system... why would you let that walk just to save a few millions this year?

I'm not sure what this sentence is saying, but Kilgore is entering his third year, not his second.

We let Spikes go to replace him with Bowman, granted that was in FA. Hell, we backed up our QB with two second-year players last year. This entire question is predicated upon the younger player being better than the older player. If that's not the case, then we stick with Goodwin. If it is the case, then we trust our young players and plow ahead. Frankly, the Pats' situation with Koppen in 2011 and last offseason is far more relevant than I realized. At some point, you've got to trust your young guys to get it done. We've been preparing for Goodwin's departure for two years now. If Kilgore and Looney aren't the guys, then we need to keep looking.

 

[deep9er]

everyone is close in opinion, the difference is you're saying cut him soon as you know he's not the starter. we're saying don't do it the day you announce Kilgore is the starter.

the time difference for me is likely short, just double check the Plan (players and contracts) and then make the necessary move(s)? don't think anyone is adamant we keep Goodwin for the entire season, i'm certainly not. its even ok if they cut him before the season, just as long as they feel comfortable with BOTH Kilgore and Looney?

 

[JDM]

See, that's the answer right there. The crucial question is the contract versus the contribution.

Koppen was healthy enough to start for Denver. And I agree Meriweather isn't wasn't a great safety, but he was good enough to stay on the roster if we're talking purely about his ability. But both guys cost too much. The same would be true of Goodwin if he's on the bench.

We have a slew of NFL-caliber players who will not make the roster. I have no doubt we will be able to fill any opening. We may have to look for a backup OL in the cuts from other teams - though we may do that regardless as we are light at OT - but I suspect we would take that approach in order to find a cheaper solution at the backup position rather than paying Goodwin good money to ride the pine.

Meriweather was not even backup quality on most teams in my mind. Admittedly we were weak at safety, but he was bad, and I was as happy with Matthew slater at safety as with him. I don't have a clue what got him a pro bowl spot.

 

[JDM]

That's about all I'm saying too. If he is a casualty near the end of the preseason it's much more reasonable.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

everyone is close in opinion, the difference is you're saying cut him soon as you know he's not the starter. we're saying don't do it the day you announce Kilgore is the starter.

the time difference for me is likely short, just double check the Plan (players and contracts) and then make the necessary move(s)? don't think anyone is adamant we keep Goodwin for the entire season, i'm certainly not. its even ok if they cut him before the season, just as long as they feel comfortable with BOTH Kilgore and Looney?

The only time frame that I would adhere to is making a move before Goodwin's salary becomes locked in. And again, this is only if one of the young guys is the guy we're going with. It should also go without saying, but if we have MAJOR concerns about one of them at the backup spot, then of course you keep Goodwin. But it seems like both players are at least solid/competent types.

 

[Dodub]

The center makes all of the line calls. Its a very important position. I would hold off to make sure the right decision is made.

The center does not make ALL of the line calls. He has a lot of responsibility but so do both tackle spots. Also, knowing the line calls is something that everyone who plays the position knows, centers are easily replaced in this league.

 

[maniax]

What if we cut Goodwin, then late in the year we have 2 freak injuries and suppose Staley and another O-lineman are out for several games including a playoff game or two.

Then you are satisfied to go with Boone - Iupati - Kilgore - Looney - Davis as the O-line with absolutely zero depth??? I'd rather work Goodwin back into the mix in this situation.

I'm not even happy with the depth right now with 8 players. I am actually hoping that Marquard kid impresses enough to become the backup swing tackle in training, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed our two starting tackles don't get hurt at all all season long. Because if a tackle goes down, Boone will move out and we have to shuffle everything. If two tackles go out we are in uncharted territory.

 

[NinerSickness]

Question: If the Niners cut Goodwin & save a few million in cap space, can they use that cap spece to accelerate some of a possible contract extension they might give to Mike Iupati? (assuming there aren't any FAs the Niners want to sign the rest of this offseason).

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Question: If the Niners cut Goodwin & save a few million in cap space, can they use that cap spece to accelerate some of a possible contract extension they might give to Mike Iupati? (assuming there aren't any FAs the Niners want to sign the rest of this offseason).

Yes.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

What if we cut Goodwin, then late in the year we have 2 freak injuries and suppose Staley and another O-lineman are out for several games including a playoff game or two.

Then you are satisfied to go with Boone - Iupati - Kilgore - Looney - Davis as the O-line with absolutely zero depth??? I'd rather work Goodwin back into the mix in this situation.

I'm not even happy with the depth right now with 8 players. I am actually hoping that Marquard kid impresses enough to become the backup swing tackle in training, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed our two starting tackles don't get hurt at all all season long. Because if a tackle goes down, Boone will move out and we have to shuffle everything. If two tackles go out we are in uncharted territory.

You could say the same for any position. If we have two serious injuries at any level (OL, WRs, RBs, QB, DL, LBs, DBs), we're going to be in some trouble. That's not a good reason to pay Goodwin all that cash instead of putting it toward, say, Iupati.

 

[maniax]

You could say the same for any position. If we have two serious injuries at any level (OL, WRs, RBs, QB, DL, LBs, DBs), we're going to be in some trouble. That's not a good reason to pay Goodwin all that cash instead of putting it toward, say, Iupati.

Then you'd have to cut Goodwin before the season because every game he's on the 53-man roster isn't 1/16 of his salary paid out leaving you with 1/16th less to front load Iupati with?

So you are gonna have to decide that Kilgore beats out Goodwin probably by the end of preseason. Awfully risky move for a Superbowl or bust team, given our lack of depth on the o-line.


I'd feel safer cutting Carlos Rogers if Asomugha bounces back in the pre-season. We have better depth at CB (Brown, Culliver, Asomugha, Cox, etc.)

If Dahl shows in the preseason he can play as well as Whitner did and Reid hits the ground running I'd feel safer cutting Whitner than Goodwin.

Now if we can pick up some cheap older linemen for the veteran minimum, like a swing tackle and maybe a guard, then maybe I'd be ok cutting Goodwin if Kilgore beats him out.

 

[NinerSickness]

If Nnamdi makes the team as either a starting or #3 CB, I still say Reid & Culliver would be the 2 best safeties on the roster. I know Whitner is the leader of the defense, but he's a liability in coverage. I don't know why the Niners are sticking with him.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Then you'd have to cut Goodwin before the season because every game he's on the 53-man roster isn't 1/16 of his salary paid out leaving you with 1/16th less to front load Iupati with?

So you are gonna have to decide that Kilgore beats out Goodwin probably by the end of preseason. Awfully risky move for a Superbowl or bust team, given our lack of depth on the o-line.


I'd feel safer cutting Carlos Rogers if Asomugha bounces back in the pre-season. We have better depth at CB (Brown, Culliver, Asomugha, Cox, etc.)

If Dahl shows in the preseason he can play as well as Whitner did and Reid hits the ground running I'd feel safer cutting Whitner than Goodwin.

Now if we can pick up some cheap older linemen for the veteran minimum, like a swing tackle and maybe a guard, then maybe I'd be ok cutting Goodwin if Kilgore beats him out.

If Goodwin is on the roster day one, then his salary becomes guaranteed.

You guys are making a big deal about a SB team relying on inexperienced backups. That's a fact of life under the salary cap. How is this any different than the OG position last year? Kilgore was our backup C and G last year, and no one seemed all that worried about it. But a year later, relying on him or Looney would be catastrophic? I don't see it. Any injury to a starter will hurt this team. That's not a reason to grossly overpay a backup.

 

[Hangman]

If Nnamdi makes the team as either a starting or #3 CB, I still say Reid & Culliver would be the 2 best safeties on the roster. I know Whitner is the leader of the defense, but he's a liability in coverage. I don't know why the Niners are sticking with him.

They stick with him cause the niners use him to call the defensive plays. This should be transferred to Bowman or Willis this year so when Whitner is gone some veteran has that ability

 

[supreme_clientele81]

They stick with him cause the niners use him to call the defensive plays. This should be transferred to Bowman or Willis this year so when Whitner is gone some veteran has that ability

I doubt Willis does it since he didn't like/want to make the calls when he was 1st given that assignment. Maybe Bowman will make the call but I think eventually Reid will make the calls since the coaches/GM keep touting how smart he is

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Another thought I had this morning on the question of Goodwin: if we do end up cutting him, and none of the PS players or late draft picks are looking like they're ready, go get Adam Snyder for the vet minimum. Yes, Snyder is a bad starter. But he knows the system, the players, and he can back up all five spots. We'd basically be using him as the second guy off the bench, and in that role he's just fine. I think something like that would be a better move than overpaying Goodwin.

Again, two serious injuries along the OL and we're in some trouble regardless.

 

[dredinis21]

Maybe it's my ignorance to contract details, but I was under the impression that extensions usually start at the beginning of the following season, not the current season that they are in. If that's the case, I fail to understand why Goodwin's cap space currently at roughly 4 mil is going to be the dealmaker in any Iupati or others extension. If Kilgore or Looney impress, we are still void of any experienced decent OL which is why I don't think that Goodwin will be cut. We are talking about a Super Bowl ready team. We need quality depth, especially if the cap money freed up doesn't apply to current year extension.

If I'm wrong in my understanding, which is likely as you guys seem well versed in it, I still don't want to see Goodwin to be cut. I like the warm fuzzy feeling of KNOWING what Goodwin bring to the table should one of our lineman go down (God forbid). I don't like the idea of either Looney or Kilgore seeing the field if they don't prove to be better then Goodwin. If one of them does (my guess Kilgore based on fluff pieces), I don't think Looney, as a 2nd yr player, would be equal or an upgrade to what Goodwin brings to the table IMO.