I'd rather have Tristan or Whiteside Poll

[Black Adam]

like i said- no one COULD offer him a contract like that.

if you are honestly trying to learn something- and not just being a prick- read this ---
Tristan Thompson will leave Cavaliers next summer if he signs qualifying offer, agent says

this said what i have been saying- The Cavs were supposedly already offering Tristan like 80 million or close to it...thats more than ANY other team could offer him because of Bird rights---- HOWEVEr- because the cap goes up an INSANE amount this year- way more than ever in the history of the league- Paul basically came out and said- I know I cant get a better deal out there right now- but next year when the cap goes up- there will be no shortage of teams that will pay what i am asking- either sign my guy now to the deal i want- or hes leaving next year no matter what.

The Cavs pretty much said get fucked- and nothing happened for a few months- then as we know- right before training camp the Cavs upped their offer by 2 million- many think they did so just to let Tristan and his agent save face- and he got into camp.

like i said- no one COULD offer him a contract like that.

guess what i'm saying is he's NOT worth the money he signed for. course everyone and his brother has told you this. but somehow you continually want to justify it. sorry...

and you can say it's "in-line" with some of the other centers and power forwards, but not for what TT is good at imo...

 

[WiggyRuss]

The whole point, by everyone here, was why were they offering anything close to that amount other than the influence of James?

Zero reasons at that point, let alone mid last season.

because they didnt want to lose a guy that they had absolutely no way to replace.

 

[Black Adam]

anyways, we're getting WAY off track here. this poll was about a vote, and it appears the votes are in...

think i'm gonna turn in now...

 

[Black Adam]

because they didnt want to lose a guy that they had absolutely no way to replace.

just rebounds. what else...?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

you said - and this is a DIRECT quote- if Tristan gets in the 18-19 million range that will mean James had a big say---isnt that what your quote says?

Yes because that number was the reported one being thrown around, and being used in most conversations.

I didn't create it.

If the reports would have been 16M, I would have said 16M.

The conversation was whether Gilbert grew balls and was going to pay fair market vs Klutch influence.

You are making it sound as though I set THAT number as the bar, which clearly never was the case.

 

[Davis_Mike]

TLDR

No one with an ounce of intelligence would take TT over Whiteside.

 

[WiggyRuss]

anyways, we're getting WAY off track here. this poll was about a vote, and it appears the votes are in...

think i'm gonna turn in now...

just wanted to make one more point- that i think is probably where i should have started- well other than that analytics argument "moneyball" argument- i like that a lot.


As a Lakers fan- how bad did the Lakers get crushed for giving Kobe 24 million a year? insane right? Kobe was the highest paid player in the league- and 24 million is a big time part of your cap- when the cap is only 62 million like in the first year of the deal. Kobe and Joe Johnson- only 2 guys making 24 million or more in the entire league- been that way for a WHILE--- hell only 10 guys in the NBA make 20 million dollars or more

next year alone- that number is going to MORE THAN DOUBLE - in one off season-
and its not like its just Durant- who is gonna get 33% (Rose rule max) of an 89 million dollar cap- almost 30 million a year....

Al Horford is gonna make AT LEAST 25 million a year- which would have made him the highest paid player in the NBA this year--- but NEXT YEAR? He will be behind Durant that is for sure.

Mike Conley is going to get 25 million a year.

I dont think Whiteside gets a "max" of 22.25 million (25% of the cap- less because of his service time) but i wouldnt be surprised if some idiot team gave him 20- which would make him a top 10 paid player in the league THIS YEAR.

Nik Batum is a SURE FIRE at LEAST 20 million a year player- probably 22.25....

Chandler Parsons is opting out im pretty sure- mark him for 20 million no doubt.

Andre Drummond is restricted and is going to get a MONSTER DEAL well over 20 million a year

Ill bet you Harrison Barnes ends up getting 20 a year--i wont guarantee that one- i could see 18- but no way anything below 18....much more likely 22.25 than 18.

Dwight Howard has his opt out and hes already getting paid almost 23 but he will DEFINITELY get at least 27 when he re-ups...

Ryan Anderson- i dont think will get 20 a year- but he will get at least 17-18 million a year

Milsap, Griffin, Love, Aldridge, Gasol will also break the 20 million mark by virtue of their annual raises.

in one year we will go from having 10 guys in the NBA making 20 million a year- to probably at LEAST 20...thats pretty insane. The year after that- the cap is supposed to go up from 89 million to 100 million- so its just going to go up at a crazy level.



I will GUARANTEE YOU THIS IS TRUE and I hope that by Gods grace that we are happy and healthy enough to be around when it happens- but 2-3 years from now- when Thompson is making 16 million a year and signed right through the smack dab middle of his prime- you will think its a steal- because comparable guys are going to be getting 25-27 million by then. EASY.

 

[WiggyRuss]

TLDR

No one with an ounce of intelligence would take TT over Whiteside.

what if you thought whiteside was a shit head and you had a strong suspicion that based on his past behavior that as soon as he signs a big deal and gets guaranteed tens of millions that he is going to go fuck off and your going to end up with Vin Baker on your salary cap?---- not only that- but what if the advanced statistics told you that the team played better defense when the guy rides the pine ?

 

[Davis_Mike]

what if you thought whiteside was a shit head and you had a strong suspicion that based on his past behavior that as soon as he signs a big deal and gets guaranteed tens of millions that he is going to go fuck off and your going to end up with Vin Baker on your salary cap?

Whiteside & his issues > TT

No risk it, no biscuit.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

just wanted to make one more point- that i think is probably where i should have started- well other than that analytics argument "moneyball" argument- i like that a lot.


As a Lakers fan- how bad did the Lakers get crushed for giving Kobe 24 million a year? insane right? Kobe was the highest paid player in the league- and 24 million is a big time part of your cap- when the cap is only 62 million like in the first year of the deal. Kobe and Joe Johnson- only 2 guys making 24 million or more in the entire league- been that way for a WHILE--- hell only 10 guys in the NBA make 20 million dollars or more

next year alone- that number is going to MORE THAN DOUBLE - in one off season-
and its not like its just Durant- who is gonna get 33% (Rose rule max) of an 89 million dollar cap- almost 30 million a year....

Al Horford is gonna make AT LEAST 25 million a year- which would have made him the highest paid player in the NBA this year--- but NEXT YEAR? He will be behind Durant that is for sure.

Mike Conley is going to get 25 million a year.

I dont think Whiteside gets a "max" of 22.25 million (25% of the cap- less because of his service time) but i wouldnt be surprised if some idiot team gave him 20- which would make him a top 10 paid player in the league THIS YEAR.

Nik Batum is a SURE FIRE at LEAST 20 million a year player- probably 22.25....

Chandler Parsons is opting out im pretty sure- mark him for 20 million no doubt.

Andre Drummond is restricted and is going to get a MONSTER DEAL well over 20 million a year

Ill bet you Harrison Barnes ends up getting 20 a year--i wont guarantee that one- i could see 18- but no way anything below 18....much more likely 22.25 than 18.

Dwight Howard has his opt out and hes already getting paid almost 23 but he will DEFINITELY get at least 27 when he re-ups...

Ryan Anderson- i dont think will get 20 a year- but he will get at least 17-18 million a year

Milsap, Griffin, Love, Aldridge, Gasol will also break the 20 million mark by virtue of their annual raises.

in one year we will go from having 10 guys in the NBA making 20 million a year- to probably at LEAST 20...thats pretty insane. The year after that- the cap is supposed to go up from 89 million to 100 million- so its just going to go up at a crazy level.



I will GUARANTEE YOU THIS IS TRUE and I hope that by Gods grace that we are happy and healthy enough to be around when it happens- but 2-3 years from now- when Thompson is making 16 million a year right and signed right through the smack dab middle of his prime- you will think its a steal- because comparable guys are going to be getting 25-27 million by then. EASY.

1. Has nothing to do with Whiteside being the better player.
2. Factually not correct, because how many 10's of extra millions will Gilbert have spent by becoming a repeat tax offender based on offering bad salaries now?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Whiteside & his issues > TT

No risk it, no biscuit.

i gotcha...were gonna see these next few months...its gonna be interesting...im particularly interested in the playoffs...you can make a LOT of money by having a big postseason....i want to see where Whiteside is at then...gonna be fun.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

what if you thought whiteside was a shit head and you had a strong suspicion that based on his past behavior that as soon as he signs a big deal and gets guaranteed tens of millions that he is going to go fuck off and your going to end up with Vin Baker on your salary cap?---- not only that- but what if the advanced statistics told you that the team played better defense when the guy rides the pine ?

Teams that think that won't make an offer.
Again, that's an opinion. That's a guess.
Has no place in this thread though.
The better player is Whiteside.
By a mile.

 

[WiggyRuss]

1. Has nothing to do with Whiteside being the better player.
2. Factually not correct, because how many 10's of extra millions will Gilbert have spent by becoming a repeat tax offender based on offering bad salaries now?

1 . I think i have been pretty clear why i think Thompson is better, least of which the guys are on COMPLETE opposite ends of the spectrum on work ethic and attitude issues- while one guy is the NBA leader in games played while the other is being called out by his teammates for babying his injuries------- I just buy into the advanced statistics on Whiteside that say the team plays better without him.....i will HONESTLY tell you that if those stats switch for a statistically significant amount of time i would be more than open to reconsidering my opinion- but as it stands- i cant say a guy who is a big time asshole, who his teammates call out for babying his injuries, who is fighting with reporters in the media,- AND the advanced stats say he isnt playing that well- if he was tearing it up and the HEat were on a roll the character stuff tends to fade more and more into the back ground-

but i just saw the team go on a 4 game win streak- 3 straight wins on the road for the first time all year- while he was sitting out- and the advanced stats say they play better without him- its hard for me to come to the conclusion i would rather have that guy over Thompson who is basically a complete model citizen, obviously never misses a game, and plays his ass off and just had a great post season. Ive DEFINITELY said my fill on the topic now.

I cant wait to see how the landscape looks at the end of March---- Feb is a short month and we have the all star break---lets see about what? probably 20 games or so from now would take us to the end of March? lets see whats up then.

 

[WiggyRuss]

LOL i think i just pissed myself---im not joking- just looked at ESPN insider and got an article all about Whiteside----lol....heres your "recent" article bskballer.....Im really interested to see where these stats are at the end of March- would be another great argument

ENJOY! THERE IS A GOD!!!! MWAHAHAHAHAAHAH

NBA's most overrated: Melo, Rondo among those coming up short

Not so fast. Here, the box score fails us.

When Whiteside sits, the Heat are better on defense. Over the past two seasons, as Whiteside has burst onto the scene in Miami, the Heat have allowed three points fewer per 100 possessions with Whiteside out of the game.

That's not all. The Heat grab more rebounds when he sits as well: 80 percent of defensive rebounds without Whiteside versus 76 percent with him..

Why? Whiteside apparently doesn't know -- or doesn't care -- that the opposing center is the biggest threat to grab offensive boards, and that the most important job of any center, after a shot goes into the air, is making sure that opponent has no clear path to the basket for a rebound.

Instead of boxing out, Whiteside appears to want the rebound for himself, according to my video review of Whiteside's play. This boosts his totals but costs his teammates rebounds. At the same time, opposing centers actually see a bump in their rebounding numbers against Whiteside, who is often just ball-watching once the shot goes up.

It's a similar story with the block numbers. Whiteside seems more concerned about getting his individual block numbers up than keeping the opponent from scoring. Many times he will leave his man to "help" a teammate and rack up a potential block, even if his teammate is in good defensive position.

So what happens? If Whiteside doesn't get the blocked shot (and he usually doesn't), the now double-teamed player often finds Whiteside's man free under the basket. Or if the shot goes up, Whiteside is completely out of position to grab the rebound.

Either way, the opposing team has an easier time grabbing offensive boards, and with no rim protector in sight, has no trouble putting the ball immediately in the basket.

Whiteside's real plus-minus (RPM) tells part of the story, as he's currently ranked 31st among centers. And in truth, his RPM is likely to be even lower in the future, as the credit received for blocks and rebounds is overwhelmed by his negative on-off numbers.

 

[WiggyRuss]

DeMar Derozan too- another 20 million dollar guy...he will get at least 22....

 

[wildturkey]

This got to 20 pages? SMDH

 

[WiggyRuss]

and i gotta say- one of the funniest and most inexplicable parts to me is that- i mean- whoever is replacing whiteside has to suck pretty bad- but the defense is STILL better with whoever it is?!!! thats insane to me

I mean- im trying to think of the depth on the Heat in the front court and who these guys would mostly be over the course of last year and this year that would replace Whiteside and contribute more.....like Haslem and Anderson and McRoberts and Amare? LOL....were not talking the Spurs here pulling Diaw and David West off the bench or a healthy Bulls team pulling Gibson and Noah (or Mirotic) off the bench.....what it PROBABLY is- is that the team went small with Bosh at center and maybe Winslow at the 4- which actually could have some damn solid potential and is closer to how the old Heat played defense with more athleticism and versatility.BUT NAH?!!! WHO WOULD EVER THINK THAT!! WHY WOULD THAT MAKE SENSE? LOL....

 

[bksballer89]

A shot blocker leaves his man occasionally to get the weak side shot block? This is really news. You do know every good shot blocker does the same right? You think their shot blocks are only coming on the opposing center who their guarding or is it coming on guards or forwards who they leave their man for to block a shot?

The Heat are currently ranked 8th in Defensive rebounds per game. We were ranked 28th last year. I'm sure whoever wrote that article would tell you that is better to be ranked 28th than 8th in rebounding. They would probably also tell you that grabbing rebounds is a bad thing and the Heat were better off being ranked last in total rebounds per game as they were last year instead of middle of the pack where they currently stands.

 

[bksballer89]

Whenever someone makes rebounding and block shots to be a negative thing, it is hard to take that article seriously. Steals are probably a bad thing as well. Turnovers in general soon enough will be considered negative if you believe everything you read in that article

 

[bksballer89]

Also if you were thinking about this logically which you're clearly not because you have a strong dislike for Whiteside.

Common Sense would tell you that instead of blaming Whiteside for every single thing that happens on the court. When players know they have a shot blocker in the paint, the perimeter players tend to take more risk than they would with Bosh or Amare at Center. Less risk usually equals better on the ball defense. More risk usually equals worse on the ball defense.

The whole blaming one guy for a team defensive rating is pretty dumb. It is as bad as looking at a players daily +/- numbers and holding him responsible without considering the other guys he was on the floor with. Same applies here. You need to consider not only who is on the floor with him but also are the perimeter players doing a good job of staying in front of their man and etc. It is something that would require you to actually watch basketball games rather than just googling every negative article you can find on the guy